I am feeling fed up

[B4ev6is]

1 hour ago, DavesaRam said:

All that happened was that we let Barnsley's approach and the match officials doing their usual get to our heads. We were incensed that for the second time in three games there was a contentious offside decision gone against us, and Barnsley were given the freedom of the city to kick great lumps out of flesh out of us. This and Barnsley executing the press really well all match long meant that we simply couldn't get into our stride. Even so, we had some terrific chances and hit the woodwork twice. But in reality all the above meant that at 2 - 0 the match seemed gone. Getting a goal back put us back in contention, but even at 3 - 1 we were still in with a chance of at least a point, but it seemed our heads seemed to get lower and lower as the match went on. And it was only after Dobbin and Springett came on that we stopped lumping the ball into the channels, or out wide for NML and Barks to cross it. As with Wycombe we were trying to play the opposition' style of football, but, thank God, we aren't Barnsley or Wycombe! When we faced Barnsley in the cup match a few weeks ago we played as Derby County and ran them off the park. We can still do that, should  we face them in the play-offs. And as I've said already, my main problem with the play-offs as ti=hat it will all hinge on the match officials - whose side will they (and the EFL?) be on?

Efl never be on ours side but always on opposition side as ref proved that point to the badge on his ref shirt and still proves still got it in for us.

[Tyler Durden]

If it's making you that bad maybe you need to think about whether going to matches is helpful for your mental wellbeing in the long run as there'll always be times when we lose matches, that's a given.

Depends if the benefits of going to watch Derby outweigh the negatives as happended yesterday. Only you know that.

Just concerns me regards the number of similar posts you've made over the recent few months when things haven't gone right. 

[Boycie]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

If it's making you that bad maybe you need to think about whether going to matches is helpful for your mental wellbeing in the long run as there'll always be times when we lose matches, that's a given.

Depends if the benefits of going to watch Derby outweigh the negatives as happended yesterday. Only you know that.

Just concerns me regards the number of similar posts you've made over the recent few months when things haven't gone right. 

Are you saying stop going or stop moaning? ?

[B4ev6is]

4 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

If it's making you that bad maybe you need to think about whether going to matches is helpful for your mental wellbeing in the long run as there'll always be times when we lose matches, that's a given.

Depends if the benefits of going to watch Derby outweigh the negatives as happended yesterday. Only you know that.

Just concerns me regards the number of similar posts you've made over the recent few months when things haven't gone right. 

I still keep going mafe just felt that way at the time and blowing off steam but I rather post off steam rather go home in a bad mood which does happen.

[Asanovic70]

11 hours ago, Tyler Durden said:

That's not down to them not being ready that's because they've exploited the opportunity they were given. We didn't. We pissed the whole thing up the wall. But don't say we weren't ready. 

No, I don't agree, I don't call spending £180m+ exploiting an opportunity to finish bottom six and have the worse goal return in away games in all four divisions. We didn't buy experienced PL players, Forest have done this including players from Euro leagues. These players cost in terms of wages etc.  I'm not sure it's right to be so dismissive of us in the PL in comparison to Forest, who have eclipsed the spending of Villa & Fulham as promoted clubs in recent seasons, both spending £100m+ .

Billy Davies demanded we spent the £60m we were going to get for being in the PL, half of it going to pay historic debts. So past baggage held us back. There's an argument that he should have received more backing but his signings were poor or underperformed and he was asking the club to mortgage itself - which is what eventually happened under Mel Morris.

I'd argue that we went from 20th & a flirtation with a relegation battle to promotion with little in-between. It was a memorable season, but the new owners flashed the cash at Billy Davies who was ambitious and left Preston to join a club with more resources. Unfortunately, these weren't forthcoming for the PL season. The situation in 2006 has vague echoes of now in that the club was emerging from a chaotic ownership & the ABC loan (crippling interest). There's a view that we should have taken the sort of approach we are doing now in rebuilding the club over the long-term.

I agree nobody turns down a promotion if it happens, but we are still being held back still by restrictions. There isn't anything wrong in building a platform or keep doing the right things - build an infrastructure, appoint the right people - because eventually a promotion will happen, as did for the likes of Brentford in the division above etc. We are too big a side to stay in L1 forever, that is the simple fact.

FWIW, I think we have an intelligent owner, who shocked us with the decision to replace Rosenior but which looks a decision that will benefit both parties. The sort of owner we have been probably desperate/crying out for in decades. 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Asanovic70

[Asanovic70]

14 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

we can't predict what will happen in the future but we can give ourselves a bit of time in planning for a future that might subsequently be much rosier than that brought about by a mad dash. History should have taught us that. We're in a marathon here, not a sprint.

COYR

Terrific post (all of it, not just the bit quoted) ?

 

 

[MadAmster]

4-1 flattered them IMO. We gifted them 3 of their 4 goals by some rank bad defending. We had as many shots as they did, 10. We had as many on target as they did, 5. We also had 60% possession but that's a stat that doesn't really say much.

Whoever is leading the line needs to jump for high balls. One hardly ever competes for them and the other should do it more often IMO. That's my one criticism of the two players we play up top. The rest of their game is fine.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

No, I don't agree, I don't call spending £180m+ exploiting an opportunity to finish bottom six and have the worse goal return in away games in all four divisions. We didn't buy experienced PL players, Forest have done this including players from Euro leagues. These players cost in terms of wages etc.  I'm not sure it's right to be so dismissive of us in the PL in comparison to Forest, who have eclipsed the spending of Villa & Fulham as promoted clubs in recent seasons, both spending £100m+ .

Billy Davies demanded we spent the £60m we were going to get for being in the PL, half of it going to pay historic debts. So past baggage held us back. There's an argument that he should have received more backing but his signings were poor or underperformed and he was asking the club to mortgage itself - which is what eventually happened under Mel Morris.

I'd argue that we went from 20th & a flirtation with a relegation battle to promotion with little in-between. It was a memorable season, but the new owners flashed the cash at Billy Davies who was ambitious and left Preston to join a club with more resources. Unfortunately, these weren't forthcoming for the PL season. The situation in 2006 has vague echoes of now in that the club was emerging from a chaotic ownership & the ABC loan (crippling interest). There's a view that we should have taken the sort of approach we are doing now in rebuilding the club over the long-term.

I agree nobody turns down a promotion if it happens, but we are still being held back still by restrictions. There isn't anything wrong in building a platform or keep doing the right things - build an infrastructure, appoint the right people - because eventually a promotion will happen, as did for the likes of Brentford in the division above etc. We are too big a side to stay in L1 forever, that is the simple fact.

FWIW, I think we have an intelligent owner, who shocked us with the decision to replace Rosenior but which looks a decision that will benefit both parties. The sort of owner we have been probably desperate/crying out for in decades. 

All of that is exactly right..

I'd lost the will to respond to that yesterday. Billy Davies, trying to mitigate for himself as only he could, said himself that the worst mistake he made was getting us promoted too quickly; he had a three seasons plan which he completed in one and we were simply not ready for the challenge of the Premier League. What followed proved that. I watched every minute of that season home and away and I wouldn't wish that experience on anyone. Davies had badgered the board to keep strengthening the promotion team during the promotion season and the board succumbed. Peter Gadsby said that a majority of the directors were in favour of sacking the manager during the season but he vetoed that because he thought it would be too unpopular with the supporters. They gave Davies more money in the January and he spent it poorly on players who were not good enough for the Premier League. Performances actually declined after January and we went from being favourites for automatic promotion to a team that scraped through the play-off by the skin of our teeth against Southampton and West Brom.

The board then had to claw back from the Premier League money windfall, the money they had laid out in the promotion season, which left insufficient funds to buy players of the quality required to stay up. There was no real plan in the Morris years. It was more a reckless gamble by a man who didn't know football and who thought his new found wealth could buy us a place in the Premier League and keep us there. The patience exercised by clubs such as Sheffield United, Norwich, Burnley, Brighton, Fulham, Bournemouth, Watford and West Brom, who all overtook us on their way up, all had a longer term plan that time has shown has served them much better than we have experienced.

In all of our three previous promotions to the top tier, we went up with a healthy nucleus of players who would perform well at that level because of good planning. Consequently we fared well.

As for Notts. Forest, the whole football world has looked on with some disbelief on how they have overspent this season. If they come down, even with the parachute payments there will be a huge need to somehow balance the books. They'll perhaps do it by selling a handful of their lesser players to Olympiakos for hugely over-inflated transfer fees. That's okay within the EFL rules and of course they don't have a ground to sell.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Premier ram]

14 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

I still keep going mafe just felt that way at the time and blowing off steam but I rather post off steam rather go home in a bad mood which does happen.

 

 

                                         keep calm B4, we are in a good place, lads are giving everything

[MadAmster]

6 hours ago, Brailsford Ram said:

As for Notts. Forest, the whole football world has looked on with some disbelief on how they have overspent this season. If they come down, even with the parachute payments there will be a huge need to somehow balance the books. They'll perhaps do it by selling a handful of their lesser players to Olympiakos for hugely over-inflated transfer fees. That's okay within the EFL rules and of course they don't have a ground to sell.

Are you sure of that Brailsford? I thought the council own the land it's built on but the club owns (leasehold?) the buildings... Which of us is right?

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, MadAmster said:

Are you sure of that Brailsford? I thought the council own the land it's built on but the club owns (leasehold?) the buildings... Which of us is right?

The council own the land and have just extended the lease to 250 years. Forest own the buildings but because they don't own the freehold they cannot use it as a security or sell the ground to a third party as Mel Morris did with Pride Park. It is not theirs to sell.

Forest had considered moving to a new site at Holme Pierrepoint and building a ground they would own but decided against it and extended the lease. We would have been in that position if the City Council had bought Pride Park from Morris and then leased it back to the club, as was one of the options explored during administration. But of course, Clowes Construction now owns the ground lock, stock and barrel and they are free to do anything they choose with it.

 

Edited February 27, 2023 by Brailsford Ram

[Ram-Alf]

Just read Brailsford's answer ?? 

Edited February 27, 2023 by The Last Post

[B4ev6is]

Also derby is my escape from life and finding things increasing differcult to cope with at the moment and things are just getting harder to cope with.

[hintonsboots]

5 minutes ago, B4ev6is said:

Also derby is my escape from life and finding things increasing differcult to cope with at the moment and things are just getting harder to cope with.

You will feel a lot better by 9.30pm tomorrow mate. 

[B4ev6is]

Just now, hintonsboots said:

You will feel a lot better by 9.30pm tomorrow mate. 

I hope so mate

Living with learning differcults and autism and deslixa making things are and they are getting worse.

[Grumpy Git]

Hang-on in there B4. ?

[B4ev6is]

2 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

Hang-on in there B4. ?

I am trying my best too mate.

[Asanovic70]

@Brailsford Ram

Another great post, you have my respect for going/enduring all 38 games in that PL season. We're all desperate for success, to get out of L1, play-offs in the Champ'ship, promotion to the PL etc, but we have spent one season practically in the last twenty years in the PL, and there's a view that it wasn't worth it. Our fans have had to learn patience & maybe a period of real consolidation over the next few years (a given time period) can lay the groundwork for something more sustainable & a realistic chance of success (as you point out in your posts).

I think Derby, perhaps more than any club, has suffered from individuals with big egos. Brian Clough's ego was healthy in the sense that he could back his words up (before my time), but we have experienced Robert Maxwell, managers like Billy Davies and an owner (Mel Morris). Davies is fondly remembered by some for giving us that memorable season, but it came at a significant cost, as you highlighted. It actually put us back several years & led to a consecutive relegation battle. I always thought Billy Davies used us to further his own ambition, in a similar way perhaps to Lampard (another memorable campaign to a degree). Ironically, he was given the same support by Forest, and patience, but ultimately failed to get them over the line.

It was very interesting reading what you had to say about the board & Davies, I remember Mike Horton (executive),he seemed a sensible guy & then he left shortly after the furore over player bonuses. Hindsight's wonderful, perhaps the board ought to have chosen  a candidate better suited (& prepared) with regards to building something over time.

As for Forest/comparisons (PL), we spent around £30m that season, which translates into £45m in today's money, taking into account inflation. So we spent roughly what Forest have largely paid for one player, Gibbs-White. I think Nott'm F have spent around between £150-180m so we spent a quarter/third of what they have done. Of the five promoted clubs to stay up in recent years, only two spent less than £100m, Sheff United (£60m+) & Brentford (£30-£35m) (recent article online/Independent).

I think Sky have paid much more regarding tv rights than they needed to (now there are more competitors) as they wanted to ensure their 'product' retained interest and ensure a degree of competitiveness between teams & fairer allocation of money so that even sides in the lower half could compete in the transfer market & we now have the scenario where even Norwich can outbid one of the better sides in the Bundesliga (Bayer Leverkusen) for a player. So, it's unlikely that any team will finish with as low a points total as ours, bar Huddersfield in recent seasons with 15. There's an argument that their promotion season was similar to ours, a bottom half/eight finish, then victory in the play-offs though they did stay up for a season, but their lack of quality (& infrastructure) eventually revealed itself during that second season. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Asanovic70