Southgate to stay on as England manager

[Normanton Lad]

13 hours ago, Tombo said:

This is a Hall of Fame sentence. I mean he had some talented players at Bolton but I don't know about handling world class players?

Bolton ffs. Wow

Djorkaeff, Jay-Jay Okocha and Hierro were all world class. They would be stars in any team in the world.
 

[cannable]

10 hours ago, Normanton Lad said:

Djorkaeff, Jay-Jay Okocha and Hierro were all world class. They would be stars in any team in the world.
 

Hierro and Djorkaeff were older than Rooney when we signed him and he wasn’t anything sparking in The Championship if we’re being honest…

[cannable]

International managers need to be dads not coaches.

The French slate Deschamps for not being attacking enough, he’s only reached three finals out of four, winning one and losing one on penos (having changed the game himself to come back from 2-0 down).

I personally still feel we’re two midfielders from being a TOP international side. Two of Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard would walk into this England side. 

[Hans Datdo-Dishes]

On 19/12/2022 at 20:57, i-Ram said:

Half a viagra a day stops me peeing on my shoes.

A full one stops you rolling out of bed at night.

[TigerTedd]

18 hours ago, cannable said:

International managers need to be dads not coaches.

The French slate Deschamps for not being attacking enough, he’s only reached three finals out of four, winning one and losing one on penos (having changed the game himself to come back from 2-0 down).

I personally still feel we’re two midfielders from being a TOP international side. Two of Carrick, Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard would walk into this England side. 

In place of who?

Seems an odd area to try to strengthen when we’ve got Bellingham and Rice there who have been lauded as two of our best players. To be fair, you’ve just listed 4 of the greatest midfielders to play for England, so of course they’d walk into any side. But Bellingham isn’t exactly rubbish. 

[sage]

8 minutes ago, TigerTedd said:

In place of who?

Seems an odd area to try to strengthen when we’ve got Bellingham and Rice there who have been lauded as two of our best players. To be fair, you’ve just listed 4 of the greatest midfielders to play for England, so of course they’d walk into any side. But Bellingham isn’t exactly rubbish. 

A back 5 of

Seaman

Neville  Campbell Ferdinand Cole

would have sorted us out

 

[cannable]

3 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

In place of who?

Seems an odd area to try to strengthen when we’ve got Bellingham and Rice there who have been lauded as two of our best players. To be fair, you’ve just listed 4 of the greatest midfielders to play for England, so of course they’d walk into any side. But Bellingham isn’t exactly rubbish. 

I don’t think Rice or Henderson/Mount are top level. 

I still think we’re absolutely crying out for a controlling midfielder. We don’t have a Pirlo/Xavi/Modric/Kroos. 

We’d go from being a team that has the better of the play against France whilst being slightly naive to just having complete control of the game, launching wave after wave of attack. We’re two midfielders away from being able to play and perform how everybody seems to want us to.

[Chris_Martin]

On 20/12/2022 at 11:27, Normanton Lad said:

Djorkaeff, Jay-Jay Okocha and Hierro were all world class. They would be stars in any team in the world.
 

at one point in their career they were, but certainly not when they were at Bolton. 

[Chris_Martin]

On 21/12/2022 at 20:22, cannable said:

I don’t think Rice or Henderson/Mount is top level. 

 

[Bris Vegas]

55 minutes ago, Chris_Martin said:

If he was German playing for Eintracht Frankfurt you wouldn’t even recognize him as elite level let alone world class. I see him similar to Maguire, albeit better in his own role. A player who will play for a top English club because he is English. But he won’t be a top player for that club and on some occasions will probably look a bit ordinary.

Bellingham is sought after by the likes of Real Madrid for good reason.

Real Madrid wont be interested in Rice for good reason. 

[TigerTedd]

19 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

If he was German playing for Eintracht Frankfurt you wouldn’t even recognize him as elite level let alone world class. I see him similar to Maguire, albeit better in his own role. A player who will play for a top English club because he is English. But he won’t be a top player for that club and on some occasions will probably look a bit ordinary.

Bellingham is sought after by the likes of Real Madrid for good reason.

Real Madrid wont be interested in Rice for good reason. 

The likes of van dijk played for Southampton, and clearly looked a cut above the rest at Southampton, but you never really know how good a player is til they get the chance to shine alongside better players.

Point is Eintracht Frankfurt could have the next Messi playing for them, and I wouldn’t have a clue. 

[cannable]

12 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

The likes of van dijk played for Southampton, and clearly looked a cut above the rest at Southampton, but you never really know how good a player is til they get the chance to shine alongside better players.

Point is Eintracht Frankfurt could have the next Messi playing for them, and I wouldn’t have a clue. 

Rice is a physical specimen and a good ball-winner and drives with it too, but I think the level above him would have all of that AND control games.

 

And yes, I have had a Christmas Eve falling out so I’m talking about football today ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

Rice was sooo one footed and lacks pace. Sort of latter day Bryan Robson, driving from midfield and putting a few tackles in, but not really elite at anything. 

We love that sort of warrior spirit in a player in England tho, so he'll be popular. 

[Grumpy Git]

On 25/12/2022 at 10:39, Van der MoodHoover said:

Rice was sooo one footed and lacks pace. Sort of latter day Bryan Robson, driving from midfield and putting a few tackles in, but not really elite at anything. 

We love that sort of warrior spirit in a player in England tho, so he'll be popular. 

I agree 100%, and does my nut (and I couldn't stand Robson or understand all the hype around him). Sideways Sid would have been a good name for him.

[Henrycav81]

Robson scored over 100 top flight goals and 26 for England from midfield, don’t think he can be accused of being negative it was his midfield partner Ray Wilkins that was nicknamed the crab. I personally believe that the side he played in should have been built around hoddle but we always went with graft over guile

1 hour ago, Grumpy Git said:

I agree 100%, and does my nut (and I couldn't stand Robson or understand all the hype around him). Sideways Sid would have been a good name for him.

 

[Marriot Ram99]

Rice can't handle a high press because he isn't technically gifted enough or agile enough or smart enough to be a step ahead. Look at the Argentina midfield and the Croatia midfield as well and they could handle being pressed easily, Henderson and Rice just pass ot backwards under pressure and do it in a way that invites pressure on the defence. 

I agree that Rice and Henderson aren't good enough really at thr very top level, replace one of them with  a top class midfielder and if we had something different to just using Kane upfront then we'd have a good chance of winning a tournament. 

 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Marriot Ram99

[DCFC Kicks]

On 26/12/2022 at 21:50, Marriot Ram99 said:

Rice can't handle a high press because he isn't technically gifted enough or agile enough or smart enough to be a step ahead. Look at the Argentina midfield and the Croatia midfield as well and they could handle being pressed easily, Henderson and Rice just pass ot backwards under pressure and do it in a way that invites pressure on the defence. 

I agree that Rice and Henderson aren't good enough really at thr very top level, replace one of them with  a top class midfielder and if we had something different to just using Kane upfront then we'd have a good chance of winning a tournament. 

 

That's a bit harsh on Rice. He's a very good defensive midfielder , but he should be playing next to more attacking midfielders, not ones like Henderson. It's unfair to compare our midfield to one-off players like Modric, but those kinds of players who can control the tempo of a game are ideal in international tournaments, and we don't have one. Argentina didn't really play through midfield that much, they just had Fernandez and de Paul run themselves into the ground each game, tackling and passing it wide to attack. England should have stuck with a back 3 with Rice and Bellingham in the middle.

[TigerTedd]

8 hours ago, DCFC Kicks said:

That's a bit harsh on Rice. He's a very good defensive midfielder , but he should be playing next to more attacking midfielders, not ones like Henderson. It's unfair to compare our midfield to one-off players like Modric, but those kinds of players who can control the tempo of a game are ideal in international tournaments, and we don't have one. Argentina didn't really play through midfield that much, they just had Fernandez and de Paul run themselves into the ground each game, tackling and passing it wide to attack. England should have stuck with a back 3 with Rice and Bellingham in the middle.

All the talk before the tournament is that he has to be brave and go with a back 4.

You really can’t win as an England a manger, unless you actually win. Whatever tactics you use, if you don’t win, they’ll be picked apart and captain hindsight will say you should’ve done it the other way.

Saka scores his pen against Italy, and every decision Southgate made would be a genius. Kane scored his pen and we go onto win, and the tactics are spot on. It’s not really his tactics that lost it for us. Unless people are trying to argue we would have been 3-0 up before kanes penalty had we played 3 at the back. 

[DCFC Kicks]

2 hours ago, TigerTedd said:

All the talk before the tournament is that he has to be brave and go with a back 4.

You really can’t win as an England a manger, unless you actually win. Whatever tactics you use, if you don’t win, they’ll be picked apart and captain hindsight will say you should’ve done it the other way.

Saka scores his pen against Italy, and every decision Southgate made would be a genius. Kane scored his pen and we go onto win, and the tactics are spot on. It’s not really his tactics that lost it for us. Unless people are trying to argue we would have been 3-0 up before kanes penalty had we played 3 at the back. 

You could say it was 50-50 against Italy and France and we were unlucky, but a good manager wouldn't rely on luck all the time. The only reason Kane even got a second penalty was because of a completely unnecessary and stupid foul by France's left back. We even had to rely on luck against lesser opposition we should have beaten: Penalties vs Colombia in 2018, and an own goal vs Denmark in 2021. Has Southgate ever actually beaten a team we weren't expected to beat at a tournament? 

If you look at the stats for the World Cup, barley any goals came from play through the middle because teams overloaded defensively in midfield. Argentina did well because they played through the wide areas in a 4-4-2 and 3-4-1-2. I just think England in a back 3 would have really suited this tournament. Obviously this is all in hindsight like you say. 

[Chris_Martin]

On 29/12/2022 at 01:25, DCFC Kicks said:

That's a bit harsh on Rice. He's a very good defensive midfielder , but he should be playing next to more attacking midfielders, not ones like Henderson. It's unfair to compare our midfield to one-off players like Modric, but those kinds of players who can control the tempo of a game are ideal in international tournaments, and we don't have one. Argentina didn't really play through midfield that much, they just had Fernandez and de Paul run themselves into the ground each game, tackling and passing it wide to attack. England should have stuck with a back 3 with Rice and Bellingham in the middle.

Disagree, rice and Bellingham in a 2 would be outnumbered by most decent sides in the tournament.