Building works - advice needed

[Ghost of Clough]

I recently had so e building work done on my kitchen. Quote before started, mutually agreed extras along the way and everything was paid for... really happy with the end result.

However, what wasn't included in the final quote was the rendering to the outside. Our builder sent a rendering duo round to our house to price the job up. Over verbal discussion, they gave us two options. The first was £600 and the second was £900. We were also told we would pay the renderers directly (not through the builder). We agreed on the £900 option as it would look nicer, and ty came over the Filleigh week to complete the work.

Today, our builder sent us a bill for £1600: £300 to knock off old render and clean up, £1000 materials, £300 labour.

Question is, what am I in the right to do?

[Dean (hick) Saunders]

I would do some calculations on that materials cost for a starter. Seems a lot unless your kitchen is massive.

Gut feel, pay them the £900 and say thanks. (Assuming you have a written quote)

[Ghost of Clough]

17 minutes ago, Dean (hick) Saunders said:

I would do some calculations on that materials cost for a starter. Seems a lot unless your kitchen is massive.

Gut feel, pay them the £900 and say thanks. (Assuming you have a written quote)

Without getting my taoe measure out, that would be about £200 at £12 a bag. Would equipment costs come under this somehow even if they already own it (big cement mixer type thing,  generator, hose, etc...)

£900 was only a verbal agreement ? 

[uttoxram75]

Depends if there has been a breakdown of communication somewhere between you the builder and the renderers. I'd suggest you mention that possibility to him.

You could tell the builder that you believed your options were £600 or £900 and you verbally agreed the £900.

If he's a reasonable sort he'll check with the render duo. If there was no itemised bill then their verbal price should stand.

Stand your ground and offer the £900. If he gives you a hard luck story maybe offer a grand but tell him that's your absolute limit as you'd had to stretch for the rendering job anyway. Give him a bit of praise, tell him how pleased you are with the work etc and you are really sorry for any misunderstanding.

If that dunna work, tell yer Dad to let me know and we'll send the Uttox Black Swan boys round to him! ?

[Archied]

9 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I recently had so e building work done on my kitchen. Quote before started, mutually agreed extras along the way and everything was paid for... really happy with the end result.

However, what wasn't included in the final quote was the rendering to the outside. Our builder sent a rendering duo round to our house to price the job up. Over verbal discussion, they gave us two options. The first was £600 and the second was £900. We were also told we would pay the renderers directly (not through the builder). We agreed on the £900 option as it would look nicer, and ty came over the Filleigh week to complete the work.

Today, our builder sent us a bill for £1600: £300 to knock off old render and clean up, £1000 materials, £300 labour.

Question is, what am I in the right to do?

My advice ,, if your builder has completed your main works and you are happy with the price , quality of work and your relationship with him through the job then do the works through him at his price with him paying the sub contractor s , of course there’s added cost but he is taking the responsibility for the job being done right and to your satisfaction,

I’ve had it many times , customer has extra work or portion of work done by subby cheaper and it goes tits up , it may turn out ok but remember the sub contractor is doing a one off job for you where as he probably gets lots of work for the builder so loses out long term if the job is not done right or they mess you around .

despite all the cowboy builders stuff that appears in press and on tv I can assure you it’s a mine field too for decent honest people who work in the building trade 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Archied

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

I’d get in touch with your builder (by phone rather than text/email) and ask that as he told you to deal with the renderers directly and you agreed on a price of £900 why has he sent you a bill? Speak to the renderers as well, be civil and try to figure out where the break down in communication has occurred.

[Archied]

Sorry , I see you have had the works completed already,, chances are the dou told you they’re labour price to do the works only

[Stive Pesley]

13 hours ago, Ghost of Clough said:

We agreed on the £900 option as it would look nicer, and ty came over the Filleigh week to complete the work.

Today, our builder sent us a bill for £1600: £300 to knock off old render and clean up, £1000 materials, £300 labour.

So if we assume that the £900 quote became the £1000 materials (fair enough it may have cost them slightly more in materials than they envisaged, but where do the other £300 charges come into it?) This implies that the labour to knock off the old render was as much/took as long as the labour to put the new render on - is that about right?

What have they said about guarantees? In my experience, rendering can be a nightmare if not done well and start to crack, fall off etc.

How about you say you'll pay the extra labour if they sign a 10 year guarantee on the work. Their reaction to such a suggestion should tell you a lot

 

 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said:

So if we assume that the £900 quote became the £1000 materials (fair enough it may have cost them slightly more in materials than they envisaged, but where do the other £300 charges come into it?) This implies that the labour to knock off the old render was as much/took as long as the labour to put the new render on - is that about right?

What have they said about guarantees? In my experience, rendering can be a nightmare if not done well and start to crack, fall off etc.

How about you say you'll pay the extra labour if they sign a 10 year guarantee on the work. Their reaction to such a suggestion should tell you a lot

Essentially £150 to rip off - about 5 hours for 1 man, I guess charged for the day. £150 to clean up and dispose of the waste - a couple of men spent about an hour scooping it up.

£300 for two men who spent about 12 hours preparing, applying the render, cleaning up.

Labour all round seems acceptable.

The issue appears to be the materials cost, almost doubling from £600 when quoted to £1000.

[nottingram]

Sorry to hijack the topic, but on a semi related note I am after some plumbing advice.

We currently have a water cylinder which is knackered and leaking from a couple of areas. Had the manufacturers come to look at it a couple of times and they’ve essentially got us on an insurance plan. This means that we’ve been sent a replacement cylinder but because we didn’t have a service history on the cylinder (we’ve only been in the house 6 months and naively didn’t check this sort of thing) we don’t get labour, just the replacement.

So essentially we have the cylinder but no replacement pipe work if required, and would have to get it installed privately. The board the cylinder is stood on is also fairly rotten due to the water issues.

The most recent plumber from the manufacturer said if it was him, he’d probably just look to upgrade the whole system to a combi boiler as there’s a decent chance the current boiler goes soonish anyway and would allow us to gain storage space by converting the cupboard the cylinder is in or knock a bedroom into it to have a bigger room. We could then look to sell the new cylinder on, either to the plumber who fits the combi or privately if needed.

So just after a bit of advice about what you would do. To be honest I am not too worried about cost, I don’t like spending money on replacing stuff like for like so if a combi is an upgrade I am happy to do it, just not sure if it is an upgrade or ultimately much of a muchness.

Sorry for the long post. TLDR is a combi boiler worth it instead of a boiler and water cylinder? Thanks!

[Ram-Alf]

33 minutes ago, nottingram said:

Sorry to hijack the topic, but on a semi related note I am after some plumbing advice.

We currently have a water cylinder which is knackered and leaking from a couple of areas. Had the manufacturers come to look at it a couple of times and they’ve essentially got us on an insurance plan. This means that we’ve been sent a replacement cylinder but because we didn’t have a service history on the cylinder (we’ve only been in the house 6 months and naively didn’t check this sort of thing) we don’t get labour, just the replacement.

So essentially we have the cylinder but no replacement pipe work if required, and would have to get it installed privately. The board the cylinder is stood on is also fairly rotten due to the water issues.

The most recent plumber from the manufacturer said if it was him, he’d probably just look to upgrade the whole system to a combi boiler as there’s a decent chance the current boiler goes soonish anyway and would allow us to gain storage space by converting the cupboard the cylinder is in or knock a bedroom into it to have a bigger room. We could then look to sell the new cylinder on, either to the plumber who fits the combi or privately if needed.

So just after a bit of advice about what you would do. To be honest I am not too worried about cost, I don’t like spending money on replacing stuff like for like so if a combi is an upgrade I am happy to do it, just not sure if it is an upgrade or ultimately much of a muchness.

Sorry for the long post. TLDR is a combi boiler worth it instead of a boiler and water cylinder? Thanks!

A few years back I had my water tank taken out and replaced by a Combi Boiler, I got burned, Not by any cost for the Boiler, But the fitter who put the boiler in, He said he could get rid of the water tank if I wanted him too, Said yes that would be helpful.

Scrap value was £70...lesson learned, Copper is an expensive metal ? 

[Archied]

6 hours ago, nottingram said:

Sorry to hijack the topic, but on a semi related note I am after some plumbing advice.

We currently have a water cylinder which is knackered and leaking from a couple of areas. Had the manufacturers come to look at it a couple of times and they’ve essentially got us on an insurance plan. This means that we’ve been sent a replacement cylinder but because we didn’t have a service history on the cylinder (we’ve only been in the house 6 months and naively didn’t check this sort of thing) we don’t get labour, just the replacement.

So essentially we have the cylinder but no replacement pipe work if required, and would have to get it installed privately. The board the cylinder is stood on is also fairly rotten due to the water issues.

The most recent plumber from the manufacturer said if it was him, he’d probably just look to upgrade the whole system to a combi boiler as there’s a decent chance the current boiler goes soonish anyway and would allow us to gain storage space by converting the cupboard the cylinder is in or knock a bedroom into it to have a bigger room. We could then look to sell the new cylinder on, either to the plumber who fits the combi or privately if needed.

So just after a bit of advice about what you would do. To be honest I am not too worried about cost, I don’t like spending money on replacing stuff like for like so if a combi is an upgrade I am happy to do it, just not sure if it is an upgrade or ultimately much of a muchness.

Sorry for the long post. TLDR is a combi boiler worth it instead of a boiler and water cylinder? Thanks!

Go with a new combi , instant hot water and only heat what water you need

[Grumpy Git]

On 02/05/2022 at 21:30, Ghost of Clough said:

Question is, what am I in the right to do?

Burn their house down, swindling barstewards.

[Boycie]

On 03/05/2022 at 12:14, Ghost of Clough said:

Essentially £150 to rip off - about 5 hours for 1 man, I guess charged for the day. £150 to clean up and dispose of the waste - a couple of men spent about an hour scooping it up.

£300 for two men who spent about 12 hours preparing, applying the render, cleaning up.

Labour all round seems acceptable.

The issue appears to be the materials cost, almost doubling from £600 when quoted to £1000.

Well? We’re all on edge here, what happened? Did you chin him? Did he chin you? Did you just pay it? 

[NG2Ram]

On 03/05/2022 at 12:14, Ghost of Clough said:

Essentially £150 to rip off - about 5 hours for 1 man, I guess charged for the day. £150 to clean up and dispose of the waste - a couple of men spent about an hour scooping it up.

£300 for two men who spent about 12 hours preparing, applying the render, cleaning up.

Labour all round seems acceptable.

The issue appears to be the materials cost, almost doubling from £600 when quoted to £1000.

I used to work for a rendering sub-contractor in a previous life and £1,000 for materials seems steep, although it depends on how big an area is involved.

What type of render is it and did you have a non-standard colour? one of the fancy German brands, Sto or Weber? or possibly a UK equivalent (which are considerably cheaper). Ask the Builder to show you the original invoice for the materials, if he declines then he’s probably overcharging you.

Edited May 5, 2022 by NG2Ram

[Ghost of Clough]

16 minutes ago, NG2Ram said:

I used to work for a rendering sub-contractor in a previous life and £1,000 for materials seems steep, although it depends on how big an area is involved.

What type of render is it and did you have a non-standard colour? one of the fancy German brands, Sto or Weber? or possibly a UK equivalent (which are considerably cheaper). Ask the Builder to show you the original invoice for the materials, if he declines then he’s probably overcharging you.

Monocouche. Likely Weber, as they asked us to choose a colour from their range - £12 a bag 

[Ghost of Clough]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

Well? We’re all on edge here, what happened? Did you chin him? Did he chin you? Did you just pay it? 

Offered £300 for the knock off and clean up of old render and £900 for applying new render. Waiting to hear back.

[Tyler Durden]

On 02/05/2022 at 21:30, Ghost of Clough said:

I recently had so e building work done on my kitchen. Quote before started, mutually agreed extras along the way and everything was paid for... really happy with the end result.

However, what wasn't included in the final quote was the rendering to the outside. Our builder sent a rendering duo round to our house to price the job up. Over verbal discussion, they gave us two options. The first was £600 and the second was £900. We were also told we would pay the renderers directly (not through the builder). We agreed on the £900 option as it would look nicer, and ty came over the Filleigh week to complete the work.

Today, our builder sent us a bill for £1600: £300 to knock off old render and clean up, £1000 materials, £300 labour.

Question is, what am I in the right to do?

Am bit confused as if you were told that you'd be paying the renderers directly why has your builder sent you a bill for the work? Why don't you just settle with the renderers for the price you agreed directly as originally intended?

Or am I missing something. 

[Ghost of Clough]

40 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Am bit confused as if you were told that you'd be paying the renderers directly why has your builder sent you a bill for the work? Why don't you just settle with the renderers for the price you agreed directly as originally intended?

Or am I missing something. 

Renderers do a lot of work for the builder so their preference is to invoice the builder instead. 

[Tyler Durden]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

Renderers do a lot of work for the builder so their preference is to invoice the builder instead. 

Even though you said originally that you agreed to pay the renderers directly?

If that's the case then would still go ahead with this and tell the builders that's what you're intending on doing get them to annul that part of the invoice then BACS transfer the renderers 900 quid with the message payment as per your verbal agreement for the work to be conducted. 

I'd be a bit reticent personally to be paying a third party money for an invoice that another party has billed me for.