The Ukraine War

[Highgate]

21 minutes ago, Ram-Alf said:

 

I didn't want to start a Russian/Putin thread ...so I'll post this here

Jailed Russian opposition politician Alexei Navalny is dead

What does this mean for Putin if anything?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

That's sad news. A very brave, honest and defiant man. He stands in stark contrast to Putin who will of course deny all knowledge of  his responsibility for Navalny's death. 

I guess the consequences for Putin will be next to nothing.  People didn't do anything when the Russian state tried to murder Navalny before, or put him in jail for no reason whatsoever...or transfer him a maximum security prison in the Artic circle and mistreat him there. So I assume nobody will or can do anything about it now.  What can Russian people do about it realistically? They don't have the option of not electing Putin in the upcoming election. 

 

[Crewton]

5 hours ago, Highgate said:

That's sad news. A very brave, honest and defiant man. He stands in stark contrast to Putin who will of course deny all knowledge of  his responsibility for Navalny's death. 

I guess the consequences for Putin will be next to nothing.  People didn't do anything when the Russian state tried to murder Navalny before, or put him in jail for no reason whatsoever...or transfer him a maximum security prison in the Artic circle and mistreat him there. So I assume nobody will or can do anything about it now.  What can Russian people do about it realistically? They don't have the option of not electing Putin in the upcoming election. 

 

Ah, that'll be old Vladimir's devilish sense of humour showing through again......

[ramit]

Who gains from Navalny's death?  He was already in prison, Avdiivka stronghold is about to fall and Vladimir Putin just finished a moderately successful interview.  If the Kremlin is behind the death, what is the possible motive?  Is sheer psychotic blood lust the reason, even if the act hands the western powers a distraction?

[Ram-Alf]

57 minutes ago, ramit said:

Who gains from Navalny's death?  He was already in prison, Avdiivka stronghold is about to fall and Vladimir Putin just finished a moderately successful interview.  If the Kremlin is behind the death, what is the possible motive?  Is sheer psychotic blood lust the reason, even if the act hands the western powers a distraction?

I have nothing concrete only suspicion, Navalny was seen yesterday on TV laughing and joking in his new prison, Today he's out walking and he collapses then dies...pretty god damn sudden that, Maybe a stronger dose of the poison than he received once before🤷‍♂️

Edited February 16 by Ram-Alf

[Highgate]

1 hour ago, ramit said:

Who gains from Navalny's death?  He was already in prison, Avdiivka stronghold is about to fall and Vladimir Putin just finished a moderately successful interview.  If the Kremlin is behind the death, what is the possible motive?  Is sheer psychotic blood lust the reason, even if the act hands the western powers a distraction?

The same people whom Navalny fearlessly criticized, namely Putin and the Russian government. The same people who weren't able to shut him up even when he was in jail. He published a 15 point plan for Russia's future from jail last year, a plan that included recognizing Ukraine's borders. That's got to have annoyed Putin. Better to make sure he doesn't do that sort of thing again. There is also the general motive of demonstrating what happens to critics of Putin in todays Russia. Crush and silence all vocal opponents...that's the motive.

The prison sentence was basically a death sentence anyway...who knows if Putin gave the order for this to happen now, but his death was surely always the plan. 

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

I have nothing concrete only suspicion, Navalny was seen yesterday on TV laughing and joking in his new prison, Today he's out walking and he collapses then dies...pretty god damn sudden that, Maybe a stronger dose of the poison than he received once before🤷‍♂️

There are claims that the video is from January.  When I did a search for Navalny last video January, a video from The Independent came up in the Google search.  Reading the link before opening it said from January, but when opening the link it says 15 February.

https://www.koha.net/en/boat/409539/navalny-was-joking-in-the-last-video-that-was-seen/

Perhaps Navalny was done in, but my question remains, what benefit would the Kremlin have in doing that?

[Ram-Alf]

1 minute ago, ramit said:

There are claims that the video is from January.  When I did a search for Navalny last video January, a video from The Independent came up in the Google search.  Reading the link before opening it said from January, but when opening the link it says 15 February.

https://www.koha.net/en/boat/409539/navalny-was-joking-in-the-last-video-that-was-seen/

Perhaps Navalny was done in, but my question remains, what benefit would the Kremlin have in doing that?

I'm only going on what the BBC shown yesterday and they verified it 🤷‍♂️ 

As for"what would benefit the Kremlin" fcuk knows...they aint wired right 😬

[Ram-Alf]

Kremlin critic Bill Browder says three reasons behind timing of Navalny 'murder'

One of the many questions that surround Alexi Navalny's death is why it happened now, almost three years after he returned to Russia.

Author and financier Bill Browder said there were three reasons for the timing.

Firstly, Vladimir Putin wanted to eliminate a political opponent.

Secondly, he wanted to show Russians that if you oppose Mr Putin you will face death.

And thirdly, it sent a message to those sitting at the Munich Security Conference, where world leaders meet to discuss defence issues, that Mr Putin can "cross every red line and get away with it".

Bill Browder

"To watch somebody who I knew, who I respected, who I worked with, murdered in the light of day was a huge shock to the system," said Mr Browder.

"Let's not mince words here - he was murdered, he didn't die, he was murdered at the hands of Vladimir Putin."

[ramit]

7 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Kremlin critic Bill Browder says three reasons behind timing of Navalny 'murder'

One of the many questions that surround Alexi Navalny's death is why it happened now, almost three years after he returned to Russia.

Author and financier Bill Browder said there were three reasons for the timing.

Firstly, Vladimir Putin wanted to eliminate a political opponent.

Secondly, he wanted to show Russians that if you oppose Mr Putin you will face death.

And thirdly, it sent a message to those sitting at the Munich Security Conference, where world leaders meet to discuss defence issues, that Mr Putin can "cross every red line and get away with it".

Firstly would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Secondly, would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Thirdly, what? 🤣

[Crewton]

18 minutes ago, ramit said:

Firstly would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Secondly, would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Thirdly, what? 🤣

That poisoning with a nerve agent in 2020 came pretty close.

You want a reason? Because he can, because his invasion of Ukraine has set him so firmly against the West that, internationally, he knows it won't make a jot of difference to what friends and foes think of him. Most of the BRICS countries are run by people who would love to do what he's just done to his biggest opponent.

[Comrade 86]

47 minutes ago, ramit said:

There are claims that the video is from January.  When I did a search for Navalny last video January, a video from The Independent came up in the Google search.  Reading the link before opening it said from January, but when opening the link it says 15 February.

https://www.koha.net/en/boat/409539/navalny-was-joking-in-the-last-video-that-was-seen/

Perhaps Navalny was done in, but my question remains, what benefit would the Kremlin have in doing that?

Silencing their most vocal and dangerous political opponent. It's difficult to see that his murder, if indeed, that is what it was, strengthens NATO's, or specifically the US's position at all, indeed it removes a potentially willing advocate for a more democratic Russia. With numerous dissidents and journos all having suffered unplanned defenestration events, it does rather seem that being a vocal opponent of Putin's carries an extreme health warning. That said, we should acknowledge that it's not just the Russians who have blood on their hands. 

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Comrade 86 said:

Silencing their most vocal and dangerous political opponent. It's difficult to see that his murder, if indeed, that is what it was, strengthens NATO's, or specifically the US's position at all, indeed it removes a potentially willing advocate for a more democratic Russia. With numerous dissidents and journos all having suffered unplanned defenestration events, it does rather seem that being a vocal opponent of Putin's carries an extreme health warning. That said, we should acknowledge that it's not just the Russians who have blood on their hands. 

Navalny's death blamed on the Kremlin would create a martyr I suppose, not that it matters much, lines being so clearly drawn between the sides.  A distraction from the recent interview and bad news on the Ukraine front?  Perhaps.  That won't matter much in the long run either, I think. 

To be clear, I don't think there are many good guys in this fight but we the people get caught in between, coerced to take sides, when most of us just want a peaceful future for our kids and ourselves.

[Comrade 86]

30 minutes ago, ramit said:

Navalny's death blamed on the Kremlin would create a martyr I suppose, not that it matters much, lines being so clearly drawn between the sides.  A distraction from the recent interview and bad news on the Ukraine front?  Perhaps.  That won't matter much in the long run either, I think. 

To be clear, I don't think there are many good guys in this fight but we the people get caught in between, coerced to take sides, when most of us just want a peaceful future for our kids and ourselves.

I agree mate. Life is hard enough for most.

[Ramarena]

Sadly this is not much of a surprise 

[Ramarena]

2 hours ago, Crewton said:

That poisoning with a nerve agent in 2020 came pretty close.

You want a reason? Because he can, because his invasion of Ukraine has set him so firmly against the West that, internationally, he knows it won't make a jot of difference to what friends and foes think of him. Most of the BRICS countries are run by people who would love to do what he's just done to his biggest opponent.

He was also hit again last year. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/14/alexei-navalny-in-critical-situation-after-possible-poisoning-says-ally

Poor bloke was probably so sick he did just keel over eventually.

[Crewton]

7 hours ago, Ramarena said:

He was also hit again last year. 

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/14/alexei-navalny-in-critical-situation-after-possible-poisoning-says-ally

Poor bloke was probably so sick he did just keel over eventually.

I think it's depressing that there appears to be quite a few people, all around the world, who think that a regime that still operates Penal Colonies and whose main political opponents tend to die either violently or in suspicious circumstances, offers a model for a New World Order.

[Ram-Alf]

13 hours ago, ramit said:

Firstly would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Secondly, would have been done long ago, if that was the reason.

Thirdly, what? 🤣

It's only my suspicion ramit nowt else, Just like the October 7th incursion into Israel.

I'm almost 68 years old seen some sh!t from around the world in that time, Russia this last 30 years has seen freedom a good relation with the west to a Country so devoid of freedoms by a megalomaniac/Narcissist/absolute fruit loop that in Putin who sends his henchmen to kill those who oppose him anywhere in the world and at home sends fear in his own people, Of course fingers will point at him, Just like fingers pointed at him when Prigozhin's plane fell out of the sky 🙄

The World order is teetering on a precipice that could go either way, I've lived a good life but their's millions who have yet to really start theirs 😔

https://news.sky.com/story/alexei-navalny-police-in-russia-crack-down-on-protests-as-human-rights-group-claims-at-least-100-arrested-13073537

 

Edited February 17 by Ram-Alf

[ramit]

9 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

It's only my suspicion ramit nowt else, Just like the October 7th incursion into Israel.

I'm almost 68 years old seen some sh!t from around the world in that time, Russia this last 30 years has seen freedom a good relation with the west to a Country so devoid of freedoms by a megalomaniac/Narcissist/absolute fruit loop that in Putin who sends his henchmen to kill those who oppose him anywhere in the world and at home sends fear in his own people, Of course fingers will point at him, Just like fingers pointed at him when Prigozhin's plane fell out of the sky 🙄

The World order is teetering on a precipice that could go either way, I've lived a good life but their's millions who have yet to really start theirs 😔

https://news.sky.com/story/alexei-navalny-police-in-russia-crack-down-on-protests-as-human-rights-group-claims-at-least-100-arrested-13073537

 

Yeltsin led Russia into suffering they had not seen since mid Soviet times, there were lots of western goods but most could not afford them, or much else for that matter.  Whatever folks may think of Putin, he revitalized Russia and for that many Russians love him, no matter what else he chooses to do on the side.  It has always been a rough country with strong leaders required it would appear.

Propaganda in the west is non stop when it comes to Russia.  I am 63, I grew up with the Russian bogey man being fear mongered to the crowds and frankly I am long since tired of it.  I don't believe for a second that their aim is world domination, or taking Europe even, they have an enormous landmass, they don't need any more, what they need is to improve the infrastructure in their huge lands.

We don't agree Ram-Alf and that's fine.  I want to thank you for keeping it civil, I respect that.

Edited February 17 by ramit
Am 63 now not 62

[Ram-Alf]

24 minutes ago, ramit said:

Yeltsin led Russia into suffering they had not seen since mid Soviet times, there were lots of western goods but most could not afford them, or much else for that matter.  Whatever folks may think of Putin, he revitalized Russia and for that many Russians love him, no matter what else he chooses to do on the side.  It has always been a rough country with strong leaders required it would appear.

We don't agree Ram-Alf and that's fine.  I want to thank you for keeping it civil, I respect that.

Substitute strong for mad leaders, How many Russian citizens did Stalin have murdered/killed during his "strong leadership" 20million...ish, If you ever or have the time have a look at this Film...it's great.

...A film that takes a swipe with a laugh at what Stalin's Central Committee did during Stalin's death.

PS there'll be no insults from me...just a reasoned debate 👍

Edited February 17 by Ram-Alf

[ramit]

8 hours ago, Ram-Alf said:

Substitute strong for mad leaders, How many Russian citizens did Stalin have murdered/killed during his "strong leadership" 20million...ish, If you ever or have the time have a look at this Film...it's great.

...A film that takes a swipe with a laugh at what Stalin's Central Committee did during Stalin's death.

PS there'll be no insults from me...just a reasoned debate 👍

I saw it, it was terrific.  Stalin was a genuine power mad paranoid sadistic maniac, no arguments from me there.