TigerTedd Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 3 hours ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Agreeing to pay them off would be the end of the football league as an entity. The competition would have no integrity and on a practical level, who's going to do stuff like referee games in an environment where some chancer could throw a lawsuit at you for wrongly awarding a corner etc? If Gibson succeeds, the whole edifice will crumble. So A. My sentiments exactly, through gritted teeth I vote A cos it will set precedent and open up a huge can of worms for the EFL to deal with. Also, maybe it’s better to live to fight another day. Survive this season, get promoted to the premier league next season, and laugh as we pass boro with our dignity intact, having beaten them the right way, on the pitch. AndyinLiverpool 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said: Out of interest why do you think there has to be some form of contract to be in place for a business to be able to sue another business It's a good point - what law have we broken? We (to put it bluntly and at a basic level) cheated at a game of sport. Not illegal, and a matter for the governing body of that sport to deal with. Which they have - hence our fine and points deduction It's yet another failing of the EFL that they aren't putting Boro and Wycombe back in their boxes. It's wrong and damaging behaviour for the sport if teams to start trying to sue each other. TomG and Tyler Durden 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinhectoring Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 28 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: 1) The first was highly dubious, and is not a precedent. Boro would have to prove we breached any rule on the depreciation issue. The points deduction depended on the first alleged breach and was only an agreed penalty to try and get the thing over with. 2) Clubs can have disputes between themselves. If we sign a player from Boro and we don't pay them they can sue us. If we arrange a match and don't turn up then they can sue us. But they can't sue us on a matter where there is no contract between us and not a matter that has already been decided with an appropriate penalty given by the EFL . And to be honest that is by no means the only problem that Boro will have with their claim. Yes agree on 2. What the rules should say is that the only person able to act on a breach of league rules (eg FFP) is EFl - clubs have no recourse against each other for that stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBritishMidland Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 hours ago, Jimbo Ram said: It’s utter nonsense, we owe them nothing. Let them take us to court. Ashley, Appleby and Rush?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 20 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: 1) The first was highly dubious, and is not a precedent. Boro would have to prove we breached any rule on the depreciation issue. The points deduction depended on the first alleged breach and was only an agreed penalty to try and get the thing over with. How would Boro' have to prove we breached any rule,we accepted a £100K fine and Nine point deduction, by that action we admitted to the breaches. Anybody who believed they were 100% innocent of the charges would not just accept it to try and get things over with,they would fight it. Would you accept an agreed penalty of a fine or driving ban if you knew you were innocent just to get it over with, i very much doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 14 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: People accept Fixed penalty fines all of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, PistoldPete said: People accept Fixed penalty fines all of the time. We are not on about fixed penalty fines but you can still contest those if you are innocent or believe you are innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: We are not on about fixed penalty fines but you can still contest those if you are innocent or believe you are innocent. You can but most people don't. Too much effort and you could end up being worse off. Indy and BriggRam 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Just now, PistoldPete said: You can but most people don't. Too much effort and you could end up being worse off. So you are saying it was too much effort for the club to challenge the fine and points deduction even though you think we were innocent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Asanovic70 said: We should send a cheque with that grand sum to Miserable Buggers & Waitrose Wanderers. It would bounce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 What amount of money are we talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriggRam Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: So you are saying it was too much effort for the club to challenge the fine and points deduction even though you think we were innocent It seems our fight against it has cost us dearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 Or, he is saying that they accepted to avoid being worse off. (in this case, a heftier points deduction). There are a million examples of two parties agreeing to an "out of court settlement", and yet neither are in a position to lay claim to being victorious, and neither get labelled as being "guilty" and/or "liable". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerTedd Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 2 hours ago, Kathcairns said: Cant understand this clubs sueing each other, efl docking points off clubs, clubs going into liquidation. Every season the parachute clubs going up then coming back down relegated clubs with points deducted and the same rich clubs winning the prem every year. Soon there will be no enjoyment in going to watch football. Dont all the people in charge realise they are killing the golden goose. Unfortunately, as long as the likes of China or the Middle East still continue to enjoy and pay for the product, the Golden Goose is alive and well. How many DCFC shirts do you think are sold in China? The money men that run the show don’t give a duck about the Bury’s or the Derby County’s of the world. Even if we were in the premier league, it’s not us they’re paying to watch. They don’t give a duck about Brentford or Burnley either. And they definitely don’t care about where football started, any of the history, or frankly any football since before the premier league. If they could get away with showing United vs Liverpool every week, and have every other team go out of business, they would. cstand, Kathcairns and atherstoneram 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said: Or, he is saying that they accepted to avoid being worse off. (in this case, a heftier points deduction). There are a million examples of two parties agreeing to an "out of court settlement", and yet neither are in a position to lay claim to being victorious, and neither get labelled as being "guilty" and/or "liable". Would you accept 9 points on your driving licence just to get it over with as @PistoldPetesaid or if you believed you were innocent of the charges would you fight it, if you accept the 9 points then you are admitting guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathcairns Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: Unfortunately, as long as the likes of China or the Middle East still continue to enjoy and pay for the product, the Golden Goose is alive and well. How many DCFC shirts do you think are sold in China? The money men that run the show don’t give a duck about the Bury’s or the Derby County’s of the world. Even if we were in the premier league, it’s not us they’re paying to watch. They don’t give a duck about Brentford or Burnley either. And they definitely don’t care about where football started, any of the history, or frankly any football since before the premier league. If they could get away with showing United vs Liverpool every week, and have every other team go out of business, they would. I'm really glad i started watching football in the 60's and not starting now, the young fans don't know what they missed. angieram and cstand 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asanovic70 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 22 minutes ago, TigerTedd said: Unfortunately, as long as the likes of China or the Middle East still continue to enjoy and pay for the product, the Golden Goose is alive and well. How many DCFC shirts do you think are sold in China? The money men that run the show don’t give a duck about the Bury’s or the Derby County’s of the world. Even if we were in the premier league, it’s not us they’re paying to watch. They don’t give a duck about Brentford or Burnley either. And they definitely don’t care about where football started, any of the history, or frankly any football since before the premier league. If they could get away with showing United vs Liverpool every week, and have every other team go out of business, they would. Of course, they aren't. For the dubious privilege of being the equivalent of a Christian thrown to the PL Lion, you get £60m or whatever it is. Or seeing as Norwich quite enjoy being a yo-yo club, the sight of a lion mauling a Canary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistoldPete Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: So you are saying it was too much effort for the club to challenge the fine and points deduction even though you think we were innocent There was no right of appeal against Derby's fine, or the consequent demand to redo our accounts. The admin team said they agreed settlement re the penalty points with EFL in order to bring certainty to the buyer. The process would have lasted months or more.. we hadn't been charged by EFL but the last process took 18 months from the charge being made to the final decision . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucker1884 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 6 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: Would you accept 9 points on your driving licence just to get it over with as @PistoldPetesaid or if you believed you were innocent of the charges would you fight it, if you accept the 9 points then you are admitting guilt. No idea, until I'm faced with such a conundrum. However, I did once get outnumbered and attacked by Watford fans up by Ivy Square. In an attempt to avoid getting knocked to the ground and getting my head caved in (It was all the rage, back in the day), I carried out what I considered an act of "self preservation" by blindly (I literally closed my eyes!) swinging an air-punch in their general direction... just as the rozzers* screeched around the corner! The ensuing arrest, and charge of breach of the peace was followed by a guilty plea, and a subsequent £80 fine. Maggie had had enough of football hooligans, and was starting to consider making examples of them. The duty solicitor advised that any plea of innocence would likely lead to a guilty verdict, and potential bird* Before or since, I have never considered myself a hooligan, have never had a penchant for fisticuffs, and have never connected with a punch, to a human being. And yet history shows me as being guilty, and as being punished as such. Make of that what you will. *I picked up the lingo, during my one and only 3 hour stint in pokey! TigerTedd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtoileSportiveDeDerby Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 I used google translate to say duck off in legal terms and it said duck off in legal term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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