Mel, did he really eat my hamster?

[PistoldPete]

3 hours ago, RoyMac5 said:

He's not poor. He's plenty of financial 'equity'. He just decided 'no more'!

He got us into debt and has baled out rather than keep funding us. But before then made sure he's got the ground - how come that (seperate) company hasn't gone into admin then?

He’s not poor but I question where the money is. Kirchner says he’s lost control of the stadium to MSD. 
 

[RoyMac5]

50 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

He’s not poor but I question where the money is. Kirchner says he’s lost control of the stadium to MSD. 

I'm sure he's not lining up to use the local foodbank. Is there one in Sandbanks?

He's been in charge and made all the decisions. Perhaps there has been some animosity towards us from others but Morris hasn't done anything to help allay that. The only thing atm that we can be thankful for is that we're still a good enough draw for some reputable buyers to be interested, rather than fake sheiks and Don Juans!

Morris wanted to leave a legacy behind him...

[Comrade 86]

I won't be shaken from the belief that for a long time, Morris did what he felt was best for the club, nor will I forget some momentous nights under his tenure. That said, I so disappointed by the manner of his exit which flew in the face of so many promises he made. Gilt and varnish hides a multitude of sins and my final analysis would be that rather applies to Morris, a man I once held in high esteem. Some tough lessons learned, but perhaps some good will come from them.

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, 86 Hair Islands said:

I won't be shaken from the belief that for a long time, Morris did what he felt was best for the club, nor will I forget some momentous nights under his tenure. That said, I so disappointed by the manner of his exit which flew in the face of so many promises he made. Gilt and varnish hides a multitude of sins and my final analysis would be that rather applies to Morris, a man I once held in high esteem. Some tough lessons learned, but perhaps some good will come from them.

If the Club survives through this dark time then I will agree with you, but if we don't then...

[Truckle]

Well then, it seems pretty clear that Mel, channelling his inner Greg Wallace, did indeed eat my hamster, served up on a buttery biscuit base.  I agree with most posters that he made loads of mistakes but I still stand by my original point that administration wouldn’t have happened without the EFL retrospectively changing the rules, and then actively trying everything from delaying tactics, constant appeals and spin to get us where we are.  That and Covid.  I am willing to bet the loses posted by Bristol City are the tip of the iceberg and I am expecting to spend the rest of the season watching the EFL busily extending a helping hand to 23 overspending clubs while casually keeping their foot on the throat of ours.  David mentioned Mel writing a book, which would be interesting, but I think a lot of the actions of the EFL are in the public domain already and I’d hope one of the journos who cover the club had a bash at it. 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Truckle said:

Well then, it seems pretty clear that Mel, channelling his inner Greg Wallace, did indeed eat my hamster, served up on a buttery biscuit base.  I agree with most posters that he made loads of mistakes but I still stand by my original point that administration wouldn’t have happened without the EFL retrospectively changing the rules, and then actively trying everything from delaying tactics, constant appeals and spin to get us where we are.  That and Covid.  I am willing to bet the loses posted by Bristol City are the tip of the iceberg and I am expecting to spend the rest of the season watching the EFL busily extending a helping hand to 23 overspending clubs while casually keeping their foot on the throat of ours.  David mentioned Mel writing a book, which would be interesting, but I think a lot of the actions of the EFL are in the public domain already and I’d hope one of the journos who cover the club had a bash at it. 

As with all his mistakes Mel loves to blame someone else. All the managers he hired and sacked, the money he threw around (just backing his managers), Rush, Keogh, the EFL...

Is he ever going to take responsibility?

[PistoldPete]

14 minutes ago, Truckle said:

Well then, it seems pretty clear that Mel, channelling his inner Greg Wallace, did indeed eat my hamster, served up on a buttery biscuit base.  I agree with most posters that he made loads of mistakes but I still stand by my original point that administration wouldn’t have happened without the EFL retrospectively changing the rules, and then actively trying everything from delaying tactics, constant appeals and spin to get us where we are.  That and Covid.  I am willing to bet the loses posted by Bristol City are the tip of the iceberg and I am expecting to spend the rest of the season watching the EFL busily extending a helping hand to 23 overspending clubs while casually keeping their foot on the throat of ours.  David mentioned Mel writing a book, which would be interesting, but I think a lot of the actions of the EFL are in the public domain already and I’d hope one of the journos who cover the club had a bash at it. 

I agree with everything that you say except that EFL doesn't extend a helping hand to other clubs, look at Sheffield Wednesday.  But actually I think the fact they lost to us on our stadium sale issue just made EFL desperate to nail us any which way they could, and as you say spinning,  dodgy appeals and dirty tactics . 

[RoyMac5]

Just now, PistoldPete said:

I agree with everything that you say except that EFL doesn't extend a helping hand to other clubs, look at Sheffield Wednesday.  But actually I think the fact they lost to us on our stadium sale issue just made EFL desperate to nail us any which way they could, and as you say spinning,  dodgy appeals and dirty tactics . 

Makes you question why they let us sign Jags and Baldock, and now play Plange if it's a vendetta?

[PistoldPete]

6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Makes you question why they let us sign Jags and Baldock, and now play Plange if it's a vendetta?

Wow,  they let us sign free agents on low salaries? And play a player who was already on our staff? The EFL are so good to us.     

[Leeds Ram]

On 31/12/2021 at 16:58, David said:

When Mel went public with his intentions to sell, I made a suggestion, write an autobiography when this is all over, and I hope he does once the dust settles.

What happened, what was the tipping point that saw him pull the plug, how did we manage to rack up this huge debt to HMRC when Fawaz down the A52 was facing winding up orders every couple of months.

Whilst ultimately his decision cost jobs, left behind a lot of debt to local businesses, which I am a creditor myself, leaving the existence of this club in jeopardy, I can’t sit here today and lay all the blame at his door, of course he must accept his part in this, not suggesting for a second he completely blameless.

Being a long time supporter of Mel, I have largely avoided discussions around him as there are still questions that I feel need answering, more clarity of what went on, closure. It would be easy to sit here and call him all the names under the sun, but I feel like I owe him the opportunity to explain, I hope he does find a way as his final Radio Derby interview didn’t really explain anything we didn’t already know, no gaps in the timeline were filled, and it’s those gaps which have left so many questions.

Do not think I am here to defend Mel, only Mel can defend himself, I have no intention of getting into drawn out debates as it will only cause more anger and frustration when right now we should be focussing on the future of this club.

You can drag up posts from the past that I and others made, but they were made with the information that we had at the time, others that raised concerns, had their doubts whilst hurt may feel smug with “I told you so”, which is their choice. I have made my enemies just from running this platform, sure there’s a few out there finger pointing.

However Mel came in, spent money, created excitement and dared us to dream which is exactly what football fans want, we had no idea it was ever to be a poo or literally bust, we were led to believe that we were on the line, pushing it at times which many clubs do, but that line was dragged out of reach when the EFL decided to review our accounts over previous seasons, accounts which they signed off.

I still to this day believe that EFL, Boro and Wycombe must also take some responsibility in all this. I also don’t think we can just ignore the impact that Covid has had, both financially and personally. Mel did not have a crystal ball, for all this to come at a time when trying to sell the club placed a fuckload of barriers in the way.

Whilst you can argue you shouldn’t live life on the edge, be prepared for the worst, I have been around 40 years and this is the first global pandemic which has changed life as we know it and seen sporting events played behind closed doors. Over the next 12 months I’m sure we will see others start to show the impact that alone has had without the EFL on their backs.

His own health issues which remain private and may not have played no part in his decision, but many things happen in life that can make you question your own mortality, did his, was his primary concern his family where the outside abuse questioned his financial support? I honestly don’t know and not trying to manufacture excuses here, losing close friends, illness, it can and does make you question where you are yourself in life.

I don’t know if we will ever see a book, if some already feel they have closure and wouldn’t be interested or believe a word he says, I for one believe it would give closure those that supported him during his tenure and feel hurt with how the club has been left, all the memories which should have been left have now been tarnished, including the one at Elland Road.

Life does go on though, I'm not going to spend another day questioning why as another mental drain that I have no desire to entertain.

If he ever brought out a book I'd only pick it up from a second hand shop so I could use it as firewood. The man ran the club into the ground and was running out of options even before covid hit. He's not exactly not had chances to explain if he wanted, after-all nothing used to stop him going on talksport radio giving it the big one when things were going well. His farcical interview with radio Derby attempting to explain has already been parodied to high heaven by most of the Derby county podcasts. But as I've said since the administration the man was more than happy to be the face of the club when people had praise but went into hiding once things went south. 

He spent recklessly and has walked off into the sunset still with plenty in the bank whilst creditors remain unpaid and the club remains at risk.  His 'attempts' to sell the club before covid still meant he'd have pocketed tens of millions from our sale if the figures quoted in the al-Jazeera documentary are even close to accurate. The one bit I do agree with is I wouldn't want to waste another minute talking about him quite honestly. He's history and the club needs to look towards the future rather than the very foolish actions of a man unable to stick around when things got difficult. 

Edited January 2, 2022 by angieram
Remove personal insults

[Rev]

The bare minimum we should expect from any owner is they leave the club in no worse a position than they inherited.

If an owner can't commit to that, they shouldn't take control.

It would take the world's largest top hat, and a whole Warren of Rabbits, for that to be the case now.

[RoyMac5]

24 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Wow,  they let us sign free agents on low salaries? And play a player who was already on our staff? The EFL are so good to us.     

If they were out to get us they could have just stuck to the rules.

Maybe Mel found it easier to blame someone else, after all we were just one Club in the leagues, why should he call the tune to the EFL?

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

If they were out to get us they could have just stuck to the rules.

Maybe Mel found it easier to blame someone else, after all we were just one Club in the leagues, why should he call the tune to the EFL?

The rules were rules they invented just for us.

[RoyMac5]

9 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The rules were rules they invented just for us.

The EFL invented rules for lots of clubs - not just us. Mel would have us believe it was only us but it isn't.

[1of4]

On 31/12/2021 at 13:40, Truckle said:

I don’t understand why we are all so keen to blame Mel rather than the EFL. 

The problem with laying the blame at Mel’s door is that the logic just doesn’t add up.  It relies on 3 pillars:

• Mel is as thick as mince
• He actively decided to ruin and devalue an asset he owns
• He is some kind of agent who intentionally bought Derby to ruin it.

Let’s assume for a second that Mel Morris is neither stupid nor intent on ruining the club he supports, then you really have to ask – how does any of it make sense?

There is an alternative narrative to the ‘Mel ate my hamster’ view of the world. What he did during his time was try to get us promoted by sailing as close to the limit of FFP as possible, just like every other club with a reasonably minted owner.  Where he massively failed was in not having the foresight to build a time machine.

When we submitted the financial figures to the EFL on 30th June 2016 the EFL signed-off on those figures. As a result Mel based his future spending plans on how much he could put into the club while staying within FFP using that method. He funded the club on this basis for the next 3 years, without a murmur from the EFL.

Let’s say that the EFL had been even half-way competent – it’s a stretch I know, but bear with me – and had said on the 30th of June 2016.

“Mr Morris, we don’t think you should amortise in this way, can you resubmit using the previous method?”

What do you think he would have done? Given that he’s not stupid or intent on ruining the club I’m betting he’d have said:

“Right you are, I’ll change my plans accordingly”

And over the next couple of years sold Tom Laurence and not bought Krystian Beilik.  From the figures that have been quoted I think would have been enough to comply with FFP, and if it wasn’t he would have sold someone else, wouldn’t he?  Given the alternative was to destroy a really valuable asset he owned I don’t think that is an unreasonable assumption.  I would argue the EFL retrospectively moving the goal posts and a global pandemic that disproportionately hits the best supported teams are why we are where we are rather than the blame all laying at Mel’s door.

Yes I agree we've been royally shafted by th EFL regarding how the FFP as been handled.

But even if the EFL had or hadn't changed it's mind over how we did our accounts. We may or may not have got a points deduction for breaking FFP rules. But the punishment we are now having to deal with due to us going into administration, is all down to Morris. He was the person that authorised the money spent and the debts we now face. 

While I have some sympathy for Morris, for how he was poorly advised on how to run a football club, when he first took ownership. Ultimately all the blame for where the club is now, must be put squarely at his feet. 

 

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

The EFL invented rules for lots of clubs - not just us. Mel would have us believe it was only us but it isn't.

So under what rule could we not play Luke Plange, or Liam Thompson earlier than we did? Surely the daftest "rule" of all that you cannot play a palyer who is registered to play for you  and whose wages you are paying?.   

And what rule is there than you cannot have Extraordinay Items in your P & S accounts ( a rule EFL invented just for us)? Or that you cannot sell stadium to a connected party (a rule they changed after we did it , but not after anyone else did it)? Or that you canot amortise players values? etc etc.    

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by PistoldPete

[RoyMac5]

2 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

So under what rule could we not play Luke Plange, or Liam Thompson earlier than we did? Surely the daftest "rule" of all that you cannot play a palyer who is registered to play for you  and whose wages you are paying?.   

You ignored what I wrote. I didn't say that the EFL didn't invent rules.

I said (and you ignored) "The EFL invented rules for lots of clubs - not just us. Mel would have us believe it was only us but it isn't."

[PistoldPete]

5 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

You ignored what I wrote. I didn't say that the EFL didn't invent rules.

I said (and you ignored) "The EFL invented rules for lots of clubs - not just us. Mel would have us believe it was only us but it isn't."

I think I answered that point. I said they have clearly applied some rules just for us (like not allowing Extraordinary Items, which Forest , Villa and many others have relied on to get around FFP).  Are other clubs banned from playing their own youngsters? I don't know of any. And EFL allowed other clubs to sell stadia to connected parties , yet for some reason when we do it it's regarded as a "loophole" that needed to be closed.

[Yani P]

I think now that Stoke and Bristol City have announced poor results many others will volunteer similar, they will all just blame it on Covid and that will be that..its like an amnesty..