Gritstone Tup Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 44 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Sorry - where has that been said? I'm sure I read noises from the EFL suggesting that it would be in everyone's interests to allow a Phoenix Derby club into L2 If the golden share is removed then we are booted out of the EFL, that’s a fact! Bury started at level 8. jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 33 minutes ago, JPRamFan said: This. If we can't get a new owner now, can you seriously see us securing one during the season. If Q are taking out a loan circa 3-5 million for new players, season tickets and June's Wages, it's only going to add more debt to an already dire situation. Q need to set a new deadline for a new owner, because I can't bare to see this farce continue into next season. 50 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: I think that the most direct comparison with a liquidated club would be Chester who folded in 2010 and who after appeal to the FA were placed in the Northern Counties premier league, the 8th tier of the pyramid. They achieved a number of back to back promotions and for a couple of seasons were in the conference playing teams such as Bristol rovers and forest green however they fell back into financial trouble and are now in the National League North. But even having a very good stadium for the league they are in with a capacity of 6500 they are only averaging 1,600 per game and struggling to stay solvent. Therefore talk of liquidation being a viable alternative for the survival of DCFC is mis placed, if this happens my view is that crowds would drop to <5,000, and given the running costs of the stadium, (you can forget having an academy) we would be in a perpetually bad financial situation, to quote the Hyde Park speakers " The end is Nigh" Edited June 20, 2022 by Gritstone Tup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, Charlotte Ram said: I think that the most direct comparison with a liquidated club would be Chester who folded in 2010 and who after appeal to the FA were placed in the Northern Counties premier league, the 8th tier of the pyramid. They achieved a number of back to back promotions and for a couple of seasons were in the conference playing teams such as Bristol rovers and forest green however they fell back into financial trouble and are now in the National League North. But even having a very good stadium for the league they are in with a capacity of 6500 they are only averaging 1,600 per game and struggling to stay solvent. Therefore talk of liquidation being a viable alternative for the survival of DCFC is mis placed, if this happens my view is that crowds would drop to <5,000, and given the running costs of the stadium, (you can forget having an academy) we would be in a perpetually bad financial situation, to quote the Hyde Park speakers " The end is Nigh" You can’t compare Derby to Chester. The situation might be similar but I can remember Chester averaging less than 1,000 attendees in the football league in the 70s. Averaging 15,000 which I think we might (stadium permitting) will see us fly up the pyramid quickly imo! Will Hughes Hair 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted June 20, 2022 Author Share Posted June 20, 2022 2 hours ago, RoyMac5 said: Because he does know some things and knows more than many. But he also likes to keep things opaque in case changes make him look stupid. ? Do you mean this as a mod, cos if so I'll stop, no problem. Nah, carry on!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Boycie said: Nah, carry on!? Thanks fud. Edit, edit: thanks bud. ? ? Edited June 20, 2022 by RoyMac5 Boycie and Will Hughes Hair 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stive Pesley Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: There was an article in one of the nationals recently where other EFL clubs were complaining at the amount of time being given to Derby to resolve the takeover and the consensus was clubs would not vote to keep us in the league. Can’t remember who wrote it, could be Nixon, Percy or the Mail. The fact that out of the 72 clubs I think we would only need 7 to vote against would suggest us starting again in league two is extremely unlikely/not going to happen. I think you are confusing matters here. The article was about clubs being unhappy about the uncertainty surrounding our insolvency and the fact that we were seemingly being allowed unlimited time by the EFL to resolve it DCFC being liquidated and a "New Derby County" club coming into existence is a totally different matter - and certainly not the subject of the article that you quote, so I don't think you're at all correct to say "it's already been stated that we won't be allowed into L2" as a new Phoenix club. Do you think L2 clubs would rather have 2 big games against New Derby with big gate receipts, or prefer one more matchup with a team that bring 100 fans and spend no money? Clubs will vote with their wallets believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, BramcoteRam84 said: It’s better than going completely extinct, but there’s only so long we could keep it going, someone will have to deal with the debt at some stage. Haven’t all options now been exhausted? Whos going to loan us any more money? They now know they’re throwing good money after bad. We won’t be allowed to lose money whilst increasing our debt. jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said: You can’t compare Derby to Chester. The situation might be similar but I can remember Chester averaging less than 1,000 attendees in the football league in the 70s. Averaging 15,000 which I think we might (stadium permitting) will see us fly up the pyramid quickly imo! If we start again under local ownership and they agree to pay rent to Mel for PP (which can only be used for football due to restrictive covenants in place I believe), then we could get 10-15k and quickly bounce back up the leagues. I agree Chester is not a fair comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Gaspode said: Something has to be done to focus a few minds on the bigger picture here - seems some of the rich folk are still looking for a cut-price deal..... Can it really be so hard for Q to set out the minimum amount that needs to be paid to meet each of the scenarios (2 years, 3 years, -15 points) and then set a deadline when the amount the potential buyers need to have submitted their final and best bid - whoever bids the largest amount wins. If no-one meets the lowest price (-15 points), then Q will begin liquidation proceedings. The alternative is that this farce staggers on for many more months with the occassional drip-feed of cash to pay the wages..... It is not up to Quantuma to inform bidders of the minimum amount needed, it is up to bidders to offer what they think the club is worth, the administrators are not here to work for the buyers however stressful this may seem. Neither the EFL or bidders can force the administrators to lower the minimum amount, they are court appointed officials and have to work within the law. If nobody bids what is needed then yes liquidation may be a possibility unless as you say the club is drip fed cash but if that was to happen what constraints would we be under from the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Stive Pesley said: I think you are confusing matters here. The article was about clubs being unhappy about the uncertainty surrounding our insolvency and the fact that we were seemingly being allowed unlimited time by the EFL to resolve it DCFC being liquidated and a "New Derby County" club coming into existence is a totally different matter - and certainly not the subject of the article that you quote, so I don't think you're at all correct to say "it's already been stated that we won't be allowed into L2" as a new Phoenix club. Do you think L2 clubs would rather have 2 big games against New Derby with big gate receipts, or prefer one more matchup with a team that bring 100 fans and spend no money? Clubs will vote with their wallets believe me Yes and the article also addressed the league 2 liquidation point saying its unlikely Personally I think there is no chance. We would need 65/72 clubs to vote in favour. Not going to happen, we may think we’re massive but the other clubs don’t care about us. Gritstone Tup and atherstoneram 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Tup Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: It is not up to Quantuma to inform bidders of the minimum amount needed, it is up to bidders to offer what they think the club is worth, the administrators are not here to work for the buyers however stressful this may seem. Neither the EFL or bidders can force the administrators to lower the minimum amount, they are court appointed officials and have to work within the law. If nobody bids what is needed then yes liquidation may be a possibility unless as you say the club is drip fed cash but if that was to happen what constraints would we be under from the EFL. Haven’t Q just told the world what money they’ll accept, in their last statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Stive Pesley said: Sorry - where has that been said? I'm sure I read noises from the EFL suggesting that it would be in everyone's interests to allow a Phoenix Derby club into L2 That has to be voted on by the other 71 member clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 41 minutes ago, jimtastic56 said: Stretford must be wondering what his next move should be after backing Ck. He has been advising Wazza since he was a kid and won’t want the “Rooney Brand” being harmed.Talking of brands , the only thing we have left of value is the DCFC brand , and Mel has made a right job of devaluing that. Whatever happens i don't think "Brand Rooney" will be impacted kevinhectoring 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 43 minutes ago, Caerphilly Ram said: Yes it adds more debt, but doesn’t it strengthen the club in the short term? I’m aware I often look for the positives in a situation and there are others who maybe look at the opposite with the realistic take probably pitched somewhere in between, but people keep talking about not being able to buy season tickets to support the club financially and drive crowds for the season which in turn generates further revenue through cold pies and boiling hot bovril, I’d say that’s a plus. We’ve only got 5/7/14 (delete as applicable) players, the paper talk is that a short term loan means we can add to the squad, which again strengthens the club off and on the pitch, doesn’t it? It means we would start the season in admin, with funding in place to be able to complete the season, a smaller wage bill and the opportunity to generate further revenue through match days, more time with which to agree a deal with a new owner who can then complete a takeover, pay down some debts as part of that process and start to rebuild the club. If we start the season in administration the EFL aren't going to relax any of the various embargoes we are currently under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 32 minutes ago, SamUltraRam said: So if we start next season in administration, we start with nil points deduction ? Assuming we have a new owner during the season, the EFL apply a points deduction if the new owner doesn't meet the minimum requirements ? Could be psychologically good if we don't actually start on -15 even if we eventually get it further down the line. Gives us chance to build up some sort of points tally I suppose. It would be so demoralising for the players to be starting out with a deficit We can't have a new buyer during the season if they don't meet the minimum requirements, that doesn't change just because the season has started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram-Alf Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 47 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Might they be taking a loan out against future season ticket income? Which is what Southampton/Burnley and Leicester do/did, But they're in the Premier League minus Burnley, We're League 1, The longer we're struggling to pay our debt, The more we keep borrowing the less likelihood a buyer will mount their White Horse and ride to the rescue, Liquidation means MM has a white elephant, Q sell what they can to offset their charges and DCFC are ducked. So a deal is in the best interests of all, BUT! the longer this goes on bills are mounting, So if the above is a likely outcome I don't see how those in supposed talks will come close to the yanks offer. I'm out of my crease and Stumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 Just now, atherstoneram said: It is not up to Quantuma to inform bidders of the minimum amount needed, it is up to bidders to offer what they think the club is worth, the administrators are not here to work for the buyers however stressful this may seem. Neither the EFL or bidders can force the administrators to lower the minimum amount, they are court appointed officials and have to work within the law. If nobody bids what is needed then yes liquidation may be a possibility unless as you say the club is drip fed cash but if that was to happen what constraints would we be under from the EFL. The bidders will all think the club is worth very little (that's reality). The point I'm trying to make is there ARE minimum amounts to meet each of the scenarios that get us out of administration as a going concern - Q know this and could quite easily set these out - that's not not being disingenuous or breaching their commitments to the creditors, it's simply being realistic about the situation the club is in....without it, we will probably find that any/all bids fall well short of the amount needed to avoid liquidation (as you say, what the bidders "think the club is worth") - that helps no-one as it leaves Q to either keep negotiating or for them to pull the plug.... Ultimately Q want a sale because that is best for the creditors AND for the club AND themselves. We won't get a sale if the bidders offers are too low - and if Q simply keep going back and asking for a bit more, it will drag on for months with the actual value of the club getting lower by the day. It needs pragmatism to resolve the situation, not long-winded negotiation.... Gritstone Tup 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atherstoneram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 27 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said: You can’t compare Derby to Chester. The situation might be similar but I can remember Chester averaging less than 1,000 attendees in the football league in the 70s. Averaging 15,000 which I think we might (stadium permitting) will see us fly up the pyramid quickly imo! A large crowd doesn't equate to a successful team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarterForTen Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, atherstoneram said: A large crowd doesn't equate to a successful team. Bradford City are proving that! jimtastic56 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i-Ram Posted June 20, 2022 Share Posted June 20, 2022 52 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said: Have they fallen in love with the trainset?? ? They may have ? Sorry, not sure who the image is? MackworthRamIsGod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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