The Administration Thread

[RoyMac5]

14 minutes ago, ptt1 said:

The middleborough claim is based entirely on an estimate of the lost revenue by Gibson and his band of merry men. He seems to have missed the fact that against that revenue there would be considerable increase in cost relating to playing in and competing with other teams in the premier league. The latest table I can find is for 18/19. 11 teams lost money and this was pre covid. The teams comparable to boro Watford profit £10m Burnley £5m palace £3m. Brighton lost£19m sheff utd lost £21m Bournemouth lost £32m Norwich lost £39m. So if this claim is about money you have to take net benefit in to account and the net benefit is probably £0 or even a loss.

It's no good getting 'side-tracked' rationalising spurious claims. Boro have no chance with their claim, why didn't take us to court earlier? 

[duncanjwitham]

2 minutes ago, Sparkle said:

If Nixon is to be believed then the Middlesbrough claim has been in a year and only now the EFL are looking into it and actually reading it and asking questions now if this is true it’s probably the most staggering level of incompetence or corruption you could imagine especially when the Middlesbrough chief executive sits on the EFL board.

Not defending anyone here, but what I suspect has happened, is that 'Boro have basically waited until the entire disciplinary process was complete before they formally filed their claim, which didn't happen until November 2021.  After all, there's no point arguing about Derby's punishment if we're still mid-disciplinary process.  The "in a year" thing presumably dates back to them trying to muscle in on the appeal hearing.  I doubt there's been a single case sitting gathering dust for a year with no one looking at it, it's various claims, and rejections, and intentions to claim etc over that time.

And I don't think the EFL were ever intending "looking into it". They just want to stay well clear and palm it off to an independent panel to sort out.  They're only getting involved now because it's clear everything is getting gummed up and they're desperately trying to broker a deal to get things moving again.

[RadioactiveWaste]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

So what you’re saying is that if Boro had their cast iron place in the Premier League they would have lost millions of pounds? Perhaps we should decide a nominal figure and apply that loss retrospectively to their accounts. It makes as much sense as the argument against us. 

Yes.

We estimate you'd have lost £15m in your season in the prem, so are deducting that from your P&S figure and you're now in breach.

Ya cheating cheaters let the damages claims commence

 

[Indy]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

It's no good getting 'side-tracked' rationalising spurious claims. Boro have no chance with their claim, why didn't take us to court earlier? 

I get your point, but I think if there is a wider awareness of their argument and rationale for losses, it will turn more public opinion as it goes to the legitimacy of their claim and whether it’s just the unhinged ramblings of a man unable to take personal responsibility for his own failures in spending and recruitment. 

[Indy]

2 minutes ago, duncanjwitham said:

Not defending anyone here, but what I suspect has happened, is that 'Boro have basically waited until the entire disciplinary process was complete before they formally filed their claim, which didn't happen until November 2021.  After all, there's no point arguing about Derby's punishment if we're still mid-disciplinary process.  The "in a year" thing presumably dates back to them trying to muscle in on the appeal hearing.  I doubt there's been a single case sitting gathering dust for a year with no one looking at it, it's various claims, and rejections, and intentions to claim etc over that time.

And I don't think the EFL were ever intending "looking into it". They just want to stay well clear and palm it off to an independent panel to sort out.  They're only getting involved now because it's clear everything is getting gummed up and they're desperately trying to broker a deal to get things moving again.

If that is true, then there isn’t a case until it is submitted in November 2021. 

[RadioactiveWaste]

Still think Boro fans should be showering us with gifts and praise and gratitude for saving them from more pulis football.

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I don't think that is what it said?

"Middlesbrough FC commenced its claims against the Club over 12 months ago in arbitration proceedings, the framework for which is set out in EFL Regulations. The EFL is not a party to those proceedings and nor does it have a role in determining the outcome of them. As the arbitration proceedings are private and confidential, we are unable to provide any further detail. "

Commenced them. That was when they were thrown out by the LAP. Doesn't say they are continuing.

Isn’t that what I said ?

[duncanjwitham]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

If that is true, then there isn’t a case until it is submitted in November 2021. 

There definitely was a case back in September 2020 though. The report is here:

 https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf

And the EFL statement from last night specifically says "claims" plural.

[We'll be back in 81]

44 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

just sent the email below to Parry. Would someone in Margaret Beckett constituency fend this to her. I think she is most likely to run with this. 
 

Dear Mr Parry

Would you be kind enough to explain how para 4 on the link below does not conflict the EFL in its dealings between DCFC and Middlesbrough FC. 

 

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf

 

As you will see and no doubt be aware it clearly states that sn agreement was reached between the EFL and MFC in relation to future claims against DCFC. 

 

I would greatly appreciate your view on this in relation to the current situation. 

 

Regards

 

Nick ********
 

Sent from my iPhone

This conflict, please send to relevant people like your MP's and media.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

So what you’re saying is that if Boro had their cast iron place in the Premier League they would have lost millions of pounds? Perhaps we should decide a nominal figure and apply that loss retrospectively to their accounts. It makes as much sense as the argument against us. 

The only thing certain would be that IF Boro was to get the Premier League, they'd be back in the Championship 12 months later. 

[Gritstone Tup]

The EFL have made it clear that Boro Wycombe situation does not fall under there remit and is a matter for a court of law.

The problem for dcfc is that we don’t have a representative to fight and win this case. MM should have dealt with this a year ago and there isn’t a serious enough bidder to take it on.

The administrators aren’t here to represent dcfc but are here for the creditors principally. It’s nonsense, easily sorted in court I’m sure, by a buyer but we don’t have one.

Its like going for a mortgage and having a CCJ. The building society has to take into account the CCJ but can’t make a judgement on it themselves, it might be nonsense but only the court can sort it.

[Caerphilly Ram]

Simon Jordan saying on TalkSPORT now that Admins have misread the room, approach now is to get in a room with Gibson and work out what he wants. Says it’s not as high as £40m based on conversations he’s had (with Gibson?) and that figure came from elsewhere, also saying the issue is born from player acquisitions relating to our amortisation, we signed players he wanted essentially. Seems like Derby fans are bombarding TalkSPORT with messages this morning, Jordan saying the only solution is to pay Gibson something and that Morris might need to come back to the party to help. 
Sort of slating Morris and the admin. Can’t keep up to summarise it all, worth people listening to if and when it gets put online later. He’s not saying everything we want to hear of course but good to hear more national coverage and discussion.

 

 

[Woodley Ram]

12 minutes ago, The Baron said:

Mel could come to the rescue, put the stadium co into administration and underwrite the claims from Boro and Wycombe. If those claims are as certain to fail as some believe then it won't cost MM much,  Quantuma have a much more attractive package to sell to a PB, at a price which will increase the chances of unsecured creditors getting a 25% payout and therefore avoiding a further points penalty, which again helps in terms of the price. 

He could indeed underwrite the claims by taking out insurance to cover the potential liability. From the outside it looks like the claims will fail, but we have not seen the details. Am I right in thinking the administrators have the power to sell the stadium anyway? Yes it would be good if he could. 
 

do you get the feeling that Mel’s money has taken a tumble, hence the administration etc?

notwithstanding your post there are a couple of other issues

1, Are the claims ‘football related debt’, if fact should they be classed as a debt?

2, I am thinking wider here. This must not happen to anyone else so we need an independent regulator, things need to be more transparent, independent and quicker. I deal with regulators for a living and the EFL rules are so badly written you could drive a bus through them as Mel and others have done or tried to.

[Woodley Ram]

1 minute ago, Caerphilly Ram said:

Simon Jordan saying on TalkSPORT now that Admins have misread the room, approach now is to get in a room with Gibson and work out what he wants. Says it’s not as high as £40m based on conversations he’s had (with Gibson?) and that figure came from elsewhere, also saying the issue is born from player acquisitions relating to our amortisation, we signed players he wanted essentially. Seems like Derby fans are bombarding TalkSPORT with messages this morning, Jordan saying the only solution is to pay Gibson something and that Morris might need to come back to the party to help. 
Sort of slating Morris and the admin. Can’t keep up to summarise it all, worth people listening to if and when it gets put online later. He’s not saying everything we want to hear of course but good to hear more national coverage and discussion.

 

 

They are on about Waghorn 

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Isn’t that what I said ?

Is it?

You said their case was in arbitration. That says it relates to a case that started in arbitration. It was thrown out?

"Middlesbrough FC commenced its claims against the Club over 12 months ago in arbitration proceedings, the framework for which is set out in EFL Regulations. The EFL is not a party to those proceedings and nor does it have a role in determining the outcome of them. As the arbitration proceedings are private and confidential, we are unable to provide any further detail."

Whilst I am not certain what the EFL made. They haven't mentioned ongoing arbitration anywhere? 

[QuitYourJibbaJivin]

Just now, Caerphilly Ram said:

Simon Jordan saying on TalkSPORT now that Admins have misread the room, approach now is to get in a room with Gibson and work out what he wants. Says it’s not as high as £40m based on conversations he’s had (with Gibson?) and that figure came from elsewhere, also saying the issue is born from player acquisitions relating to our amortisation, we signed players he wanted essentially. Seems like Derby fans are bombarding TalkSPORT with messages this morning, Jordan saying the only solution is to pay Gibson something and that Morris might need to come back to the party to help. 
Sort of slating Morris and the admin. Can’t keep up to summarise it all, worth people listening to if and when it gets put online later. He’s not saying everything we want to hear of course but good to hear more national coverage and discussion.

 

 

Interestingly Nixon is still claiming it’s £45m and it’s in writing!

Only way out of this I see is MM decides to do 1 last good deed and halves his asking price for the stadium (reported as £20m) give the £10m to those pair of chancers and the new owners don’t have to stump up anymore. Either that or we’re dead!

[Donnyram]

51 minutes ago, Eatonram said:

just sent the email below to Parry. Would someone in Margaret Beckett constituency fend this to her. I think she is most likely to run with this. 
 

Dear Mr Parry

Would you be kind enough to explain how para 4 on the link below does not conflict the EFL in its dealings between DCFC and Middlesbrough FC. 

 

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/c9fc5dceaa7f4b62b81dca0b9e2f7c9d/2020.10.26---decision-on-mfc-redaction.pdf

 

As you will see and no doubt be aware it clearly states that sn agreement was reached between the EFL and MFC in relation to future claims against DCFC. 

 

I would greatly appreciate your view on this in relation to the current situation. 

 

Regards

 

Nick ********
 

Sent from my iPhone

Wow, simply wow!!  That single paragraph in my mind explains a hell of a lot!!  Unfortunately I’m in Doncaster and I don’t think our local MP would give a toss 

[BondJovi]

Just now, Woodley Ram said:

They are on about Waghorn 

Can we claim for them shafting us over Christie and Riggott all those years back?

[BarrowRam]

Can’t believe that the efl actually think that they are helping. 21pts deduction wasn’t enough. When the administrator was ready to announce P.B they threw that out. They definitely have a vendetta against the rams. Why would they put out their statement out at ten o’clock. Keep up the pressure everyone.

[Woodley Ram]

4 minutes ago, Gritstone Tup said:

The EFL have made it clear that Boro Wycombe situation does not fall under there remit and is a matter for a court of law.

The problem for dcfc is that we don’t have a representative to fight and win this case. MM should have dealt with this a year ago and there isn’t a serious enough bidder to take it on.

The administrators aren’t here to represent dcfc but are here for the creditors principally. It’s nonsense, easily sorted in court I’m sure, by a buyer but we don’t have one.

Its like going for a mortgage and having a CCJ. The building society has to take into account the CCJ but can’t make a judgement on it themselves, it might be nonsense but only the court can sort it.

The Insolvency Laws do not allow Wycombe to go to court without the agreement of the administrators or Court agreement. I doubt if either will approve that