Who shall we buy then?

[Jram]

11 hours ago, RamNut said:

I thought Tom Ince’s mum had ruled him out. 

Ah the oracle has spoken 

[Mckram]

13 hours ago, Spanish said:

Hasn’t that been abandoned because it wasn’t compliant as well as ducking stupid 

Fairly certain that’s what the EFL appealed and the result hasn’t come back. I wouldn’t say it’s stupid though...for me it actually makes more sense. 

[Spanish]

34 minutes ago, Mckram said:

Fairly certain that’s what the EFL appealed and the result hasn’t come back. I wouldn’t say it’s stupid though...for me it actually makes more sense. 

Obviously debatable but as a Derby fan you will know that we normally end up with a worthless asset at the end of the contract.  It is foolhardy to expect that we will sell them for something close to what we paid for them and shows poor risk management.  I get the concept of ERV it just doesn't work well enough when adapted to player values.  There is just too much temptation to keep kicking the can down the road if you find yourself up against P&S.   Not saying it happens but faced with a 12 point penalty for a breach or maintain the value of a player with 18 months left on his contract is just too much of a conflict.  The concept is of course that the selling club maybe selling a player with not much left on his contract but the buying club are buying one with 3 or more years on his.  Why should his RV be 4/5ths of what you paid for him?  Well it is in our DNA yuuf.  we over pay for ordinary players and then give them away for nothing 

I think a big part of the appeal is that we have been found guilty with no penalty for being a little economical with the truth.  That was the only sub charge that stuck.

[Van der MoodHoover]

Let's buy Dowell. £20m should do it... ?

[Mckram]

2 hours ago, Spanish said:

Obviously debatable but as a Derby fan you will know that we normally end up with a worthless asset at the end of the contract.  It is foolhardy to expect that we will sell them for something close to what we paid for them and shows poor risk management.  I get the concept of ERV it just doesn't work well enough when adapted to player values.  There is just too much temptation to keep kicking the can down the road if you find yourself up against P&S.   Not saying it happens but faced with a 12 point penalty for a breach or maintain the value of a player with 18 months left on his contract is just too much of a conflict.  The concept is of course that the selling club maybe selling a player with not much left on his contract but the buying club are buying one with 3 or more years on his.  Why should his RV be 4/5ths of what you paid for him?  Well it is in our DNA yuuf.  we over pay for ordinary players and then give them away for nothing 

I think a big part of the appeal is that we have been found guilty with no penalty for being a little economical with the truth.  That was the only sub charge that stuck.

Yeah I totally get why some will say it’s silly. But like you said it’s just kicking the can so there isn’t actually any advantage gained from doing it. You either take the hit now or later which I think should be the teams choice. 

I like it as obviously it helps us control FFP better and we have to take the hit one day, so what’s the issue if it’s this season or next.

The issue is FFP/P&S as a whole. The 3 season rule just asks for teams to bend the rules on that 3rd season. Having something like a wage cap or can only spend a certain amount of your tv/ticket income would be so much better.

 

[Spanish]

52 minutes ago, Mckram said:

Yeah I totally get why some will say it’s silly. But like you said it’s just kicking the can so there isn’t actually any advantage gained from doing it. You either take the hit now or later which I think should be the teams choice. 

I like it as obviously it helps us control FFP better and we have to take the hit one day, so what’s the issue if it’s this season or next.

The issue is FFP/P&S as a whole. The 3 season rule just asks for teams to bend the rules on that 3rd season. Having something like a wage cap or can only spend a certain amount of your tv/ticket income would be so much better.

 

Yep if you screw up year 1 you will more than likely have to wait for year 4.  If Leeds had not gone up they would have been in the poo

[Reggie Greenwood]

41 minutes ago, Spanish said:

Yep if you screw up year 1 you will more than likely have to wait for year 4.  If Leeds had not gone up they would have been in the poo

And Villa , and would have been even more so if they hadn’t been saved from relegation by the goal line tech failure in the Sheff Utd game last season 

[RammingStone66]

On 09/04/2021 at 22:43, LeedsCityRam said:

Pretty depressing prospect. Reading Rob Dorsett's tweets yesterday & his article on skysports com, they suggested Alonso wanted to focus on bringing young, hungry & good value players to the club and expand our foreign scouting network a la Brentford. Started to feel enthusiastic as that was exactly the direction we needed to take.

Now Alonso has apparently come out with these remarks, fans will be disappointed with anything less than a big spending regime. That will bring pressure particularly with fans due back at PP from August. Spectacular lack of judgement from a young guy obviously wanting to impress.

He needs wise heads around him & to stop giving clickbait interviews.

I could be totally wrong here but Isn't the Brentford model effectively impossible now anyway, because of the new transfer rules?

Getting young cheap foreign players is now extremely difficult unless they play in a top league or internationally......which would usually inflate the price......which then P&S would potentially stop us from paying ?

Does anyone know if Joz would have been eligible to come here if these rules had been in play when they signed? 

[LeedsCityRam]

1 hour ago, RammingStone66 said:

I could be totally wrong here but Isn't the Brentford model effectively impossible now anyway, because of the new transfer rules?

Getting young cheap foreign players is now extremely difficult unless they play in a top league or internationally......which would usually inflate the price......which then P&S would potentially stop us from paying ?

Does anyone know if Joz would have been eligible to come here if these rules had been in play when they signed? 

That was my first instinct but @Ghost of Clough posted some fantastic content to highlight the rules on the 'El Derbyco' thread (I think). Basically, a player needs 15 points to get a work permit & by dint of playing in the Championship, any player we look to get automatically gets 10 points. Looks like German/Italian/Spanish second & third tiers are in play, as would the Polish top tier (so yes, Jozwiak could have moved here as could Serdar Dursun) & a whole host of other countries.

In short, the Brentford model is still very much relevant subject to improved foreign scouting & connections.

[Ghost of Clough]

11 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

That was my first instinct but @Ghost of Clough posted some fantastic content to highlight the rules on the 'El Derbyco' thread (I think). Basically, a player needs 15 points to get a work permit & by dint of playing in the Championship, any player we look to get automatically gets 10 points. Looks like German/Italian/Spanish second & third tiers are in play, as would the Polish top tier (so yes, Jozwiak could have moved here as could Serdar Dursun) & a whole host of other countries.

In short, the Brentford model is still very much relevant subject to improved foreign scouting & connections.

I may have got myself mixed up by the FA's definition of 'last club' and 'current club', where both terms could refer to the same club ?‍♂️

[RammingStone66]

18 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

That was my first instinct but @Ghost of Clough posted some fantastic content to highlight the rules on the 'El Derbyco' thread (I think). Basically, a player needs 15 points to get a work permit & by dint of playing in the Championship, any player we look to get automatically gets 10 points. Looks like German/Italian/Spanish second & third tiers are in play, as would the Polish top tier (so yes, Jozwiak could have moved here as could Serdar Dursun) & a whole host of other countries.

In short, the Brentford model is still very much relevant subject to improved foreign scouting & connections.

Oh that's fantastic to hear, I didn't realise we got so many points for being a Championship club. Thank you for clarifying that ?

[Van der MoodHoover]

How many points do benzema, casimiero and all the other real Madrid signings we're going to make with Erik's squillions count for? ?

[LeedsCityRam]

29 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said:

I may have got myself mixed up by the FA's definition of 'last club' and 'current club', where both terms could refer to the same club ?‍♂️

Ah, does the 10 point automatic tally not apply to us then? (Apologies if you've already clarified elsewhere)

[Spanish]

11 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Ah, does the 10 point automatic tally not apply to us then? (Apologies if you've already clarified elsewhere)

nope it is related to the selling club not the buying one

[LeedsCityRam]

8 minutes ago, Spanish said:

nope it is related to the selling club not the buying one

Just had a look through the rules & yes, it looks purely related to the selling club.

Good article (link below) explaining the various criteria to get those 15 points & ramifications of new rules. In particular, highlights 'lower league clubs will struggle to buy from lower divisions in Europe' which would seem to compromise Brentford's model. On the flip side, players from South American clubs should be better able to fulfil the points criteria. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/worldfootballindex.com/2020/12/work-permits-premier-league-post-brexit-english-clubs-efl-libertadores/amp/

[DesertRam]

Tomori, clarke and Mengi should solve our defensive questions for the forseeable future

and Drinkwater would be good - as he's not managed a regular place at the Bridge yet

and anyone whose not nailed down a RM squadnumber next season, and is under the

age of 25, that'd go it for me............

 

[Oldben]

https://www.derbycounty.news/news/erik-alonso-eyes-fernando-llorente-as-dream-Derby-county-signing/

[Coneheadjohn]

1 hour ago, Oldben said:

https://www.derbycounty.news/news/erik-alonso-eyes-fernando-llorente-as-dream-Derby-county-signing/

At least he’s been realistic with his targets.