The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[Archied]

See ,,, it’s not happening ??‍♂️

[Gone]

4 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well that's kind of my point, we really need to start forgiving each other and realise that this was an unprecedented thing for which the world seemed largely unprepared. It was a massive trauma for everyone. We have to stop thinking of it as being wrong or right

The use of the word "narrative" grates in general, because at the end of the day we are governed by the leaders we choose. They had to decide what to do on our behalf. No one was ever going to agree with there choices 100%. I certainly didn't. "Narrative" simply means the decisions taken by those in charge. If people are upset that they were treated badly for not agreeing with those decisions then that's fair enough, but it's not all about them. Are they as upset as the people who saw loved ones die? It's not a competition, yet there seem to be some who still labour under the belief that there was some kind of perfect scenario through covid where no one died, no one disagreed with the actions taken, the economy was not broken, the NHS wasn't overwhelmed and there were no long lasting effects on society

 

Translation: Dam all those we called idots, granny killers, looneys, conspiracy theorists and clowns maybe actually had a point but I’m too stubborn to admit it so it’s much better just to call for a amnesty and forget all about it. 

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11 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thank you.

You probably should have pointed out that it was in the EU, so the sample size is only 28.

It is an interesting stat still nonetheless. 

 It more info:  As of reporting date June 19th 2022, of all the countries analysed by the OECD, Sweden has the lowest overall cumulative excess deaths total over the pandemic period,  it shhhhhh some don’t want to talk about it anymore. 

[Stive Pesley]

13 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

some don’t want to talk about it anymore

Well they should want to talk about it. It's stats like these that are crucial to inform our responses to future pandemics. Sweden clearly got something right when it comes to excess deaths, but still had a lot of people die from Covid. 

What did Norway do differently, cos their stats look the best of all - low excess deaths and low covid deaths

New Zealand also look do have made a decent job of keeping deaths very low without having too many excess deaths - but then we had dozens of pages on here of people arguing that the NZ model was completely wrong

I guess it comes down to whether you're interested in learning from these stats and making future responses better globally, or if you're just interested in your own personal smugness about Sweden

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Just now, Stive Pesley said:

Well they should want to talk about it. It's stats like these that are crucial to inform our responses to future pandemics. Sweden clearly got something right when it comes to excess deaths, but still had a lot of people die from Covid. 

What did Norway do differently, cos their stats look the best of all - low excess deaths and low covid deaths

New Zealand also look do have made a decent job of keeping deaths very low without having too many excess deaths - but then we had dozens of pages on here of people arguing that the NZ model was completely wrong

I guess it comes down to whether you're interested in learning from these stats and making future responses better globally, or if you're just interested in your own personal smugness about Sweden

Not really own personal smugness maybe just after little apology from some of  the name calling and crying smiley face emoji at every post which apparently in hindsight were actually correct. However I’m sure those who did aren’t big enough to admit they were wrong and wrong to react they way they did. Anyway big Match to enjoy now, COYR ?

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

15 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

Well they should want to talk about it. It's stats like these that are crucial to inform our responses to future pandemics. Sweden clearly got something right when it comes to excess deaths, but still had a lot of people die from Covid. 

What did Norway do differently, cos their stats look the best of all - low excess deaths and low covid deaths

New Zealand also look do have made a decent job of keeping deaths very low without having too many excess deaths - but then we had dozens of pages on here of people arguing that the NZ model was completely wrong

I guess it comes down to whether you're interested in learning from these stats and making future responses better globally, or if you're just interested in your own personal smugness about Sweden

My suspicion would be, that half the population aren't overweight with all manner of health conditions not managed correctly, or undiagnosed, due to a chronically poor NHS that's on it's arse, till covid shines it's miserable light on it.  Diabetes was a big one.

That's not me preaching by the way as I'm a fairly fat b****** myself these days.

 

[GboroRam]

38 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

My suspicion would be, that half the population aren't overweight with all manner of health conditions not managed correctly, or undiagnosed, due to a chronically poor NHS that's on it's arse, till covid shines it's miserable light on it.  Diabetes was a big one.

That's not me preaching by the way as I'm a fairly fat b****** myself these days.

 

Compare with the good old USA, who tried to resist locking down in many states. How's their stats looking, similar to Sweden? 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Compare with the good old USA, who tried to resist locking down in many states. How's their stats looking, similar to Sweden? 

Only really works if you compare state by state , oh wait we tried that during covid and you were quick to tell us that it didn’t count as numerous mitigating factors meant states with less strict policies and mask mandates had better or the same stats , pick a card ,any card , shuffle it up ,don’t let me see it???

Edited November 9, 2022 by Archied

[Eddie]

21 hours ago, Archied said:

Only really works if you compare state by state , oh wait we tried that during covid and you were quick to tell us that it didn’t count as numerous mitigating factors meant states with less strict policies and mask mandates had better or the same stats , pick a card ,any card , shuffle it up ,don’t let me see it???

Citation needed - or at least your usual cherry-picked 'statistics'.

[Archied]

45 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Citation needed - or at least your usual cherry-picked 'statistics'.

Nice cherry picked fashion accessory?

[PistoldPete]

On 09/11/2022 at 18:52, Stive Pesley said:

Well they should want to talk about it. It's stats like these that are crucial to inform our responses to future pandemics. Sweden clearly got something right when it comes to excess deaths, but still had a lot of people die from Covid. 

What did Norway do differently, cos their stats look the best of all - low excess deaths and low covid deaths

New Zealand also look do have made a decent job of keeping deaths very low without having too many excess deaths - but then we had dozens of pages on here of people arguing that the NZ model was completely wrong

I guess it comes down to whether you're interested in learning from these stats and making future responses better globally, or if you're just interested in your own personal smugness about Sweden

Both Sweden and New Zealand are sparsely populated . Which is why they don’t get Covid so much. Some people read too much into things. NorwAy also had low Covid deaths, Denmark too. 

[Crewton]

3 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Both Sweden and New Zealand are sparsely populated . Which is why they don’t get Covid so much. Some people read too much into things. NorwAy also had low Covid deaths, Denmark too. 

Sweden and New Zealand also have more broadly socially responsible populations, which in Sweden's case meant that enforcing responsible behaviour by edict wasn't deemed necessary and in NZ case meant that they had fewer refuseniks. Those factors were important in keeping case numbers low by comparison to other countries like the UK and USA. 

[G STAR RAM]

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2022/11/hundreds-of-beds-taken-up-by-flu-patients-every-day-ahead-of-winter/

Flu hospitalizations up tenfold on last year.

Looks like locking everyone in their homes has had a serious impact on immune systems.

Whoever could have predicted something like that...well other than the medical professionals that were regularly shouted down...

[Stive Pesley]

52 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2022/11/hundreds-of-beds-taken-up-by-flu-patients-every-day-ahead-of-winter/

Flu hospitalizations up tenfold on last year.

Looks like locking everyone in their homes has had a serious impact on immune systems.

Whoever could have predicted something like that...well other than the medical professionals that were regularly shouted down...

To be fair - I don't recall anyone shouting down medics who predicted that. Because it was always a fairly obvious risk. What was there to shout down? I saw it reported frequently in the mainstream media

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/after-year-virtually-no-flu-scientists-worry-next-season-could-n1266534

Granted - plenty of people were shouted down for Covid misinformation, but not this

Anyway, I see that Space Karen has lifted the Twitter curbs on covid misinformation now, so that should make some people happy. I for one am off to vets for some horse worming tablets as soon as I've typed this

Edited November 30, 2022 by Stive Pesley

[G STAR RAM]

9 minutes ago, Stive Pesley said:

To be fair - I don't recall anyone shouting down medics who predicted that. Because it was always a fairly obvious risk. What was there to shout down? I saw it reported frequently in the mainstream media

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/after-year-virtually-no-flu-scientists-worry-next-season-could-n1266534

Granted - plenty of people were shouted down for Covid misinformation, but not this

Anyway, I see that Space Karen has lifted the Twitter curbs on covid misinformation now, so that should make some people happy. I for one am off to vets for some horse worming tablets as soon as I've typed this

I seem to remember a large group of medical professionals being shouted down when they said that the effect of lockdowns would be worse than the effect of Covid but of course people will now try and distance themselves from that view.

Just out of interest, how do you know what 'Covid misinformation' is? Are you that well informed on the subject that you know when something is right or wrong about it? Or by Covid misinformation, do you just mean something that is at odds with your view on it?

[Stive Pesley]

52 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I seem to remember a large group of medical professionals being shouted down when they said that the effect of lockdowns would be worse than the effect of Covid

I don't remember anyone being shouted down for stating that viewpoint. Unless you mean - that people debated with them. Which is not the same thing. It was always a concern, but always an unknown. And there was never a wrong or right answer (for example - are you really arguing that an increase in flu hospitalisations now is WORSE than if we hadn't locked down and the death toll from Covid had been considerably higher? You can't argue in good faith when the core of the argument is something we'll never know)

As I've stated repeatedly - we should now be looking at all the data from all countries to work out which the least worst scenario was so that next time we don't have to argue about it. In 2020 we didn't have the data - only scenario modelling. Now we have real world data

59 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Just out of interest, how do you know what 'Covid misinformation' is?

It doesn't matter what I think counts as covid misinformation because I have no control over it. It is whatever those who control the media decide that it is. I am then free to choose whether I believe it or not. 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

I seem to remember a large group of medical professionals being shouted down when they said that the effect of lockdowns would be worse than the effect of Covid but of course people will now try and distance themselves from that view.

Just out of interest, how do you know what 'Covid misinformation' is? Are you that well informed on the subject that you know when something is right or wrong about it? Or by Covid misinformation, do you just mean something that is at odds with your view on it?

Right you’ve had your two allocated posts in disagreement, knock it on the head you obsessive ??‍♂️

[Crewton]

It's a different flu' virus strain, so I'm not sure what immunity would have been "built-up" by exposing people to last year's flu. 

Catching flu' is bad for the elderly and anyone with respiratory sensitivities anyway, so exposing them to respiratory viruses is like Russian roulette.

[Archied]

59 minutes ago, Crewton said:

It's a different flu' virus strain, so I'm not sure what immunity would have been "built-up" by exposing people to last year's flu. 

Catching flu' is bad for the elderly and anyone with respiratory sensitivities anyway, so exposing them to respiratory viruses is like Russian roulette.

A bit like covid then, lock downs incoming 

Edited November 30, 2022 by Archied

[Wolfie]

7 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2022/11/hundreds-of-beds-taken-up-by-flu-patients-every-day-ahead-of-winter/

Flu hospitalizations up tenfold on last year.

 

Who gets paid to come up with this tosh!?

Of course this year's flu numbers are going to be much higher than the two years we were limiting social contact. It's not rocket science.

You'll need to compare it to the pre-Covid years for proper conclusions about any effect on immunity response and effect of lockdowns on it.