The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[cstand]

7 hours ago, Stive Pesley said:

It's a tricky one for sure.

Don't publish that data and it's "what are they trying to hide from us! It's a conspiracy!"

Do publish it, and despite the obvious caveats you mention it will be the purest form of raw data - ripe to be shaped into whatever conclusion the "it's a conspiracy!" lot want to draw from it

None of this is productive, none of it is healthy for the minds of those that spend all day flailing angrily at their keyboards

People need to start focussing on being positive and making the most of their lives

Unless of course, on your death bed you really think you'll be saying "My one regret? I just wish I'd spent more time on the internet arguing with strangers"

Rick aka Stive

Guys guys look at us squabbling, bickering like children, what’s happening to us? We never used to be like this 

 

Mike aka David 

Yes we did.

[G STAR RAM]

19 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

No. Vaccinated population is older and more vulnerable. That’s why they were vaccinated. So you would expect higher death rates for them. 

But thats also what you would expect without a vaccination programme. Surely you'd look at the percentages of deaths?

[G STAR RAM]

23 hours ago, Wolfie said:

Not sure that will help much, to be honest.

Excess death rates are far more likely to be higher among those vaccinated because, by definition, they are older and more vulnerable.

Also, what is "vaccinated"? Do you have to have different bands for those who may have had anything from one jab to 4 or 5 by now?.

Surely that is irrelevant? If the number of oldies dying per week had jumped from 5000 to 10000 surely you would want to know why?

 

[Wolfie]

58 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Surely that is irrelevant? If the number of oldies dying per week had jumped from 5000 to 10000 surely you would want to know why?

 

Yes but how do you pin it down to one single cause?.

I read that many of the excess deaths are due to cardio/respiritory failure. Caused by what?.

After-effects of Covid - Even in the fully recovered - What underlying health conditions present?

Covid Vaccine - Which vaccine? How many shots? What underlying health conditions present?

Delayed diagnosis due to NHS delays/shut down

Delayed or cancelled planned treatment due to NHS capacity

Delays in A&E access due to bed blocking in hospitals

Reduction in excercise & poor diet during lockdowns

Something else entirely

 

In reality it could easily be a combination of 3 or 4 of those but good luck trying to prove it. The only common theme is the effect of Covid as a disease and it's effect on society. We'll never know how many would have died in that first wave, had we not locked down, so good luck also in working out if it was the right thing to do.

Edited October 27, 2022 by Wolfie

[PistoldPete]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

But thats also what you would expect without a vaccination programme. Surely you'd look at the percentages of deaths?

You would need to break the population down by age for example. Over 90% of older people are vaccinated .. but they probably died because they were old not because they were vaccinated. 

[Stive Pesley]

22 hours ago, maxjam said:

Its not about staying angry, its more about holding people accountable and learning for the future.

There are thousands of excess deaths worldwide and no one seems to care.  It could be due to the vaccine, it could be due to lockdowns, it could be due to temperature, strain on healthcare, lack of exercise, mental health, etc - a multitude of reasons that no one seemingly wants to understand, which is scary given that the WHO maintain that the pandemic isn't over, favour mass vaccination, lockdowns and are continuing to push every nation into signing up to their ultimate power mandate for 'next time'. 

Add to that disappearing £millions from the various covid financial schemes, worldwide inflation due to paying printing money like its confetti and paying everyone to stay home and do bugger all, I personally think we should be taking a deep dive into every aspect of the past few years - see what worked, see what didn't and actually be better prepared for next time, not make the same mistakes again.

But hey, the worlds moved on, nothing to see here.  You're just an angry conspiracy nutjob if you actually dare to ask a question.

Again - I don't disagree with your points that we need to see answers on a lot of this stuff.

And there is a public independent inquiry. Let's not pretend that there isn't

https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/

I was saying that there is an angry horde online who will never be satisfied with what comes out. If it doesn't back up all their worst fears and prove that they were right all along, they will go looking for reasons why it's a stitch up (which again - may well be true). It's all just so tiring

[G STAR RAM]

4 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

You would need to break the population down by age for example. Over 90% of older people are vaccinated .. but they probably died because they were old not because they were vaccinated. 

Well that has always been done in the ONS figures, so would just be a simple comparison of absolutes.

Also the vaccine uptake over here was extremely high in all age categories. 

[Crewton]

23 hours ago, Archied said:

Ok here’s one place to start , investigate how she has been treated by those platforms , people on those platforms and the mainstream media , from there investigate further if you truly care , if not don’t bother and just stick to the partisan approach 

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/21156286.were-suppressed-despite-inquest-vindication-vaccine-death-says-vikki-spit/

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/20228905.vikki-spit-wins-first-astrazeneca-vaccine-compensation-settlement-fiances-death/

 

The platforms have to be wary about anyone who extrapolates one tragic example into a general campaign against something that is generally held to be in the interests of public health. For every one such instance, I could find you a hundred or more instances of people posting about the death of a loved one through Covid being dogpiled by Covid sceptics and anti-vaxxers accusing them of lying. Social media attracts the scum of humanity, I think we can at least agree on that. 

Everyone who believes their loved one has been killed or damaged by a vaccine should be given a proper hearing by the authorities. But don't expect trial by SM to be anything other than a decent into the gutter. 

[Crewton]

38 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The platforms have to be wary about anyone who extrapolates one tragic example into a general campaign against something that is generally held to be in the interests of public health. For every one such instance, I could find you a hundred or more instances of people posting about the death of a loved one through Covid being dogpiled by Covid sceptics and anti-vaxxers accusing them of lying. Social media attracts the scum of humanity, I think we can at least agree on that. 

Everyone who believes their loved one has been killed or damaged by a vaccine should be given a proper hearing by the authorities. But don't expect trial by SM to be anything other than a decent into the gutter. 

"descent" not "decent" ? 

[Archied]

53 minutes ago, Crewton said:

The platforms have to be wary about anyone who extrapolates one tragic example into a general campaign against something that is generally held to be in the interests of public health. For every one such instance, I could find you a hundred or more instances of people posting about the death of a loved one through Covid being dogpiled by Covid sceptics and anti-vaxxers accusing them of lying. Social media attracts the scum of humanity, I think we can at least agree on that. 

Everyone who believes their loved one has been killed or damaged by a vaccine should be given a proper hearing by the authorities. But don't expect trial by SM to be anything other than a decent into the gutter. 

Think it was more a case of quite a number of people sharing experiences and helping each other with support and an ear , a bitlike our topic on depression , 

they have been subject to really horrible abuse by users and then banned as spreading mis information even though they have proper death cert and medical clarification of injuries including the loss of a leg for one man, also been approved compensation from gov,

these people are people who have been on side in taking the vaccine and deserve better

[PistoldPete]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Well that has always been done in the ONS figures, so would just be a simple comparison of absolutes.

Also the vaccine uptake over here was extremely high in all age categories. 

Here you go. Broken down  by age as I would expect. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

 

[G STAR RAM]

3 hours ago, PistoldPete said:

Here you go. Broken down  by age as I would expect. 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

 

Cant open it, what does it show?

[Shipley Ram]

Dr John who normally has a sober take on things has some interesting excess death comments.

 

[G STAR RAM]

7 hours ago, Shipley Ram said:

Dr John who normally has a sober take on things has some interesting excess death comments.

 

Spot on, the silence is deafening. 

Whats happened to all of the medical experts who told us granny killers to get a jab?

Why are they no longer around to explain these excess deaths?

[Archied]

37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Spot on, the silence is deafening. 

Whats happened to all of the medical experts who told us granny killers to get a jab?

Why are they no longer around to explain these excess deaths?

No need , job done , the lives of people and the western world have been so knocked off kilter that policies and drastic changes can be pushed through with hardly a question, we are conditioned to accept and fear constant crisis that only those at the top know best how to save us from , note the growing worldwide attack on our farmers and the food chain next in line, the worlds economy has been decimated in the name of covid now the food chain being destroyed in the name of mass death and end of the world through climate change,

Edited November 3, 2022 by Archied

[JoetheRam]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Spot on, the silence is deafening. 

Whats happened to all of the medical experts who told us granny killers to get a jab?

Why are they no longer around to explain these excess deaths?

Now that, according to Dr John's graphs, Covid doesn't seem to be a direct factor in excess deaths (guessing those jabs really did work after all) I'd put a few guesses at the door of suicides, "old age" type stuff due to the heat we had in the summer, you should probably factor in the NHS being exhausted from the pandemic and having no staff so patients are dying waiting for operations that had been put off, probably gonna be an increase over winter as the oldies freeze due to no heating... could be anything really. There tends to be more deaths than expected when the economy is poor too.

[G STAR RAM]

18 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

Now that, according to Dr John's graphs, Covid doesn't seem to be a direct factor in excess deaths (guessing those jabs really did work after all) I'd put a few guesses at the door of suicides, "old age" type stuff due to the heat we had in the summer, you should probably factor in the NHS being exhausted from the pandemic and having no staff so patients are dying waiting for operations that had been put off, probably gonna be an increase over winter as the oldies freeze due to no heating... could be anything really. There tends to be more deaths than expected when the economy is poor too.

Shouldn't need to take guesses, all of the things that you note should be pretty quantifiable, hence why I and others are questioning where the experts, who were quoting excess deaths on a daily basis thoughout the pandemic, are not doing the same now?

Especially as a lot of people are guessing that the excess deaths are due to the vaccine. You'd think experts would be keen to provide evidence to prove otherwise. 

Edited November 3, 2022 by G STAR RAM

[Crewton]

29 minutes ago, Archied said:

the lives of people and the western world have been so knocked off kilter that policies and drastic changes can be pushed through with hardly a question, we are conditioned to accept and fear constant crisis that only those at the top know best how to save us from

Western world? You should take a look at China, whose Covid policies have been the most restrictive and strictly enforced on the planet, and which are still ongoing, and think yourself lucky. 

[Stive Pesley]

9 hours ago, Shipley Ram said:

Dr John who normally has a sober take on things has some interesting excess death comments

I stopped watching when his opening comments were about how "a thousand" people in the comments of his previous video claimed to have had covid in November/December 2019 - therefore it must be true.  It's just yet one more example of an "influencer" influencing people to believe that the bad winter cold they had, might have actually been some sort of freak unexplained early covid-19 case which then must highlight how everyone is lying to us and we should trust no one (apart from the old attention-seeking retiree in the video of course)

So I'm going to be assume that his talk of excess deaths is also completely biased into trying making people believe it was the covid vaccine wot dunnit and it's a cover up - save myself the bother of watching any more of his crap

Leave the official inquiry to do its stuff

https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/

 

[G STAR RAM]

21 minutes ago, Crewton said:

Western world? You should take a look at China, whose Covid policies have been the most restrictive and strictly enforced on the planet, and which are still ongoing, and think yourself lucky. 

It amazes me how easily people have been conditioned to being dealt a s*** hand and being told they should be grateful for it.

I will never think myself lucky for having the best part of a year of being separated from my family.