The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[PistoldPete]

9 hours ago, maxjam said:

From the NHS website;

Monthly publication of COVID-19 data

The publication covers:

- the number of patients in hospital with Covid including those in mechanical ventilation

- the number of patients admitted to hospital with Covid

- the number of patients diagnosed in hospital with Covid

- the number of patients discharged from hospital

- staffing absences

And the further down the page;

'The majority of inpatients with Covid-19 are admitted as a result of the infection. A subset of those who contract Covid in the community and are asymptomatic, or exhibited relatively mild symptoms that on their own are unlikely to warrant admission to hospital, will then be admitted to hospital to be treated for something else and be identified through routine testing.'

And this

'The headline published numbers in publications to date have been “inpatients with confirmed Covid” without differentiating between those in hospital “for” Covid and those in hospital “with” Covid. Recognising the combination of high community infections rates, with the reduced likelihood of admission for those who contract Covid in the community and are fully vaccinated, the Covid SitRep was enhanced in June 2021 to add a requirement for providers to distinguish between those being primarily treated ‘for’ Covid and those ‘with’ Covid but for whom the primary reason for being in hospital was non-Covid related. In practice this distinction is not always clear at the point of admission when the patient’s record has not been fully clinically coded. In light of this, trusts have been asked to provide this “for” and “with” split on a ‘best endeavours’ basis.'

In short, there are 2 distinct categories of people in hospital with covid - those that are being treated for covid and the 37%-45% of those on hospital with mild covid being treated for something else.  It appears to me that Jamie Jenkins is spot on with his analysis.  Again.

Thanks for this max jam very helpful . Happy to stand corrected , except the stat I am still trying to get to is what proportion of people are admitted because of COVID and what proportion only are diagnosed with COVID once   they are in hospital .

Even better, how many people catch COVID whilst in hospital. If anything if this stat being quoted of 40% suggests those only testing positive once in hospital may be even higher than 40%.

 

[Gone]

On 08/01/2022 at 09:23, Bob The Badger said:

I listened to the this girl and her father interviewed on Radio 5 this morning. Her dad said that there are currently 117,000 children suffering from long covid.

That seems crazy high to me. Anybody else heard anything remotely like that?

Captain Sir Tom inspires long Covid girl's walking challenge

Her experience was pretty traumatic for a 9 year-old kid, especially when kids don't get it.

 

There was a women on GMB this morning quoting the numbers above. She has kept her perfectly healthy child off school for 20months now claiming it’s due to this kind of information, absolutely criminal. 

[Andrew3000]

8 hours ago, Eddie said:

My guess: From the nurse's perspective, utter frustration, having been working under pressure for almost two years trying to save lives during the (to date) seventh-most deadly pandemic in world history, the last year of said pandemic being where numerous vaccines which have a huge benefit in preventing serious illness and death were available - yet still there are more than 10% of the population still unvaccinated.

Of course, the poster may well have been, as you are suggesting, trying to 'score a point' or 'win the internet' - perhaps even making up the comment to serve that purpose. 

 

And that's a reasonable guess Eddie, similar to my point. But this kind of frustration stems from the belief that the vaccine strategy is effective, the only behaviour that matters and the expectation that everybody should just do the right thing. The vaccination rates are higher than the initial targets too, but we can't be satisfied with that?

Nurses have always been under pressure and the wards have always has significant numbers of people who don't do what they should healthwise. OK at present this has been highlighted.

The comment is of course designed to prove a double standard, it doesn't. You can take covid seriously, look after your health in other ways, respect some aspects of medical healthcare and still be unvaccinated.  The comparison between a healthy person not choosing a vaccine that they are suspicious of vs. Then being treated when seriously ill is facile and not informative.

I suppose I am just sad and frustrated that at times we are being triggered into conflict and tribalism over this issue. 

As you say, the comment may even be made up and if so I've been foolish to get caught by the bait.

This thread is important though and I've found it helpful to follow people's thoughts because I just don't see or hear enough debate which has worried me.

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Thanks for this max jam very helpful . Happy to stand corrected , except the stat I am still trying to get to is what proportion of people are admitted because of COVID and what proportion only are diagnosed with COVID once   they are in hospital .

Even better, how many people catch COVID whilst in hospital. If anything if this stat being quoted of 40% suggests those only testing positive once in hospital may be even higher than 40%.

 

Other than the headline figure I haven't looked into it to much tbh.

I think with Delta you had valid concerns but now we have Omicron its that transmissible I don't think it really matters anymore, the key distinction will simply be whether you need treatment for covid or whether you have covid but are being treated for something else.

The reason the distinction is important is because MPs make decisions that effect everybody based off those numbers.  If they have the wrong numbers and relay those numbers in public - of which there was a spate before Christmas, it can lead to the public becoming overly concerned and/or force the Govt to act. 

Which led me to finding 'he who must not be named'.  I have been using Govt released data for long time to keep track of the situation and it was nice to see someone far better qualified than me to confirm that I had not been misinterpreting that data. 

[maxjam]

20 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

There was a women on GMB this morning quoting the numbers above. She has kept her perfectly healthy child off school for 20months now claiming it’s due to this kind of information, absolutely criminal. 

Similar story here (kinda)

Re. my earlier point Politicians and the media have a responsibility to get the numbers correct - things have been scary enough over the past two years without inflating the numbers.  Either that or we should all stop watching the news!

[GboroRam]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

My guess: From the nurse's perspective, utter frustration, having been working under pressure for almost two years trying to save lives during the (to date) seventh-most deadly pandemic in world history, the last year of said pandemic being where numerous vaccines which have a huge benefit in preventing serious illness and death were available - yet still there are more than 10% of the population still unvaccinated.

Of course, the poster may well have been, as you are suggesting, trying to 'score a point' or 'win the internet' - perhaps even making up the comment to serve that purpose. 

 

Meh. Why are we taking this virus so seriously when it can't even get into the top 5?

[PistoldPete]

18 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Other than the headline figure I haven't looked into it to much tbh.

I think with Delta you had valid concerns but now we have Omicron its that transmissible I don't think it really matters anymore, the key distinction will simply be whether you need treatment for covid or whether you have covid but are being treated for something else.

The reason the distinction is important is because MPs make decisions that effect everybody based off those numbers.  If they have the wrong numbers and relay those numbers in public - of which there was a spate before Christmas, it can lead to the public becoming overly concerned and/or force the Govt to act. 

Which led me to finding 'he who must not be named'.  I have been using Govt released data for long time to keep track of the situation and it was nice to see someone far better qualified than me to confirm that I had not been misinterpreting that data. 

I can assure you it matters. People are definitely catching COVID in hospital and dying as a result. And that matters rather more than whether the daily COVID deaths figures are accurate or not.. since we both agree it's the ONS Figures that are more accurate I would only look at the daily figures as a trend  rather than an absolute figure .  

[maxjam]

15 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

I can assure you it matters. People are definitely catching COVID in hospital and dying as a result. And that matters rather more than whether the daily COVID deaths figures are accurate or not.. since we both agree it's the ONS Figures that are more accurate I would only look at the daily figures as a trend  rather than an absolute figure .  

I didn't say that it didn't matter, I said there was a key distinction between those in hospital being treated for covid and those in hospital with covid being treated for something else.   

Surely if those that went into hospital requiring something other than treatment for covid then went on to requiring treatment for covid they would then be taken off one list and added to the other?

The daily data has only ever been a snapshot - the Govt produce 7 day rolling covid deaths data so that we can spot trends for this reason.  Fortunately as can be seen in the graph of those in hospital with covid being treated for something else the numbers have risen since mid-December when the milder Omicron started to take hold. 

[PistoldPete]

14 minutes ago, maxjam said:

I didn't say that it didn't matter, I said there was a key distinction between those in hospital being treated for covid and those in hospital with covid being treated for something else.   

Surely if those that went into hospital requiring something other than treatment for covid then went on to requiring treatment for covid they would then be taken off one list and added to the other?

The daily data has only ever been a snapshot - the Govt produce 7 day rolling covid deaths data so that we can spot trends for this reason.  Fortunately as can be seen in the graph of those in hospital with covid being treated for something else the numbers have risen since mid-December when the milder Omicron started to take hold. 

The key distinction for me is between those that were admitted with something else and those that were admitted for Covid.

If large numbers are catching Covid in hospital we need to know this. we need to identify how people are catching Covid and prevent its spread.. particularly amongst vulnerable people in hospital.

[PistoldPete]

10 hours ago, Rev said:

I guess we can only judge things as we find them ourselves.

This afternoon, I went to a pub for a nephew's birthday party. Chock full of people, not a mask in site, no sign of any virus altering the lives of anyone present.

On the way home, I called in to see my parents.

My mum hasn't been upstairs for 2 months now, as she can't handle the stairs with her arthritis, so sleeps on the settee downstairs. That's a long standing problem, gets worse this time of year for obvious reasons, but can't access the help she needs because of Covid.

My dad retired 2 years ago, just before Covid first arrived, as mobile and healthy as any then 76 year old could be.

I posted on here just after the first lockdown about his decline in health, and how I didn't think he'd survive long, the period since has been no kinder. His legs are so swollen he can barely move, his G.P. referred him to hospital back then, and he's still awaiting an appointment!

If they were to die tomorrow, it won't be of Covid, but it certainly would be because of it.

 

 

Sorry to hear this Rev. 
 

in a way this is one reason I am so in favour of mass vaccination. It’s the lesser evil compared to lockdown which we must absolutely not go back to. Preventing people from seeing their loved ones , especially those who may not be around for much longer is the one of the worst effects of Government policy. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, GboroRam said:

Meh. Why are we taking this virus so seriously when it can't even get into the top 5?

Wiki has it at No 5 because that is sorted by high-bound estimates.

Just got to reel in HIV, Spanish Flu and two rounds of Bubonic Plague.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, PistoldPete said:

I can assure you it matters. People are definitely catching COVID in hospital and dying as a result. And that matters rather more than whether the daily COVID deaths figures are accurate or not.. since we both agree it's the ONS Figures that are more accurate I would only look at the daily figures as a trend  rather than an absolute figure .  

Because of disparities in 'reporting time' (weekends etc) the 'rolling 7 day' figures are much more useful for trends analysis.

[maxjam]

23 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

The key distinction for me is between those that were admitted with something else and those that were admitted for Covid.

If large numbers are catching Covid in hospital we need to know this. we need to identify how people are catching Covid and prevent its spread.. particularly amongst vulnerable people in hospital.

I don't think its possible to prevent the spread, especially now we have omicron.  

You only have to look at the latest Govt data, the Danish study, countries with vaccine passports or read the numerous fully vaccinated venues reported in the media that have had outbreaks recently to see that omicron spreads regardless of vaccination status. 

You get jabbed to protect yourself, omicron is so widespread now that the chances of you avoiding it are becoming increasingly slim.

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Honestly, have none of you got nothing better to do than keep going over the same ground every hour of every day. 

Surely your getting bored now. What will you do with the spare time you have when in the next 4 weeks COVID stops getting spoke about around the world. 

[Bob The Badger]

12 hours ago, Andrew3000 said:

Don't like this kind of comment, full of contempt and condemnation. Lacks any empathy or imagination. When you are well and being heavily pressurised to do something you don't trust that you fear might compromise your health unnecessarily that's one thing; to be seriously ill and out of control is quite another.  Who else do they resent treating;  what other people who made a decision that didn't work out do they judge similarly? 

You don't become a nurse and lack empathy. It's hard work, crappy pay, often bad hours and you get a lot of grief.

I doubt there are many nurses who lack empathy, but maybe some are just ground down with hearing over and over and over again from sick patients who wished they'd had the vaccine.

My wife deals with oncology patients and they are frequently ill because of a combination of poor life choices, but she still frequently gets upset when they can't do anything ro save them, especially when they have young families.

This is different because cancer isn't contagious and nobody is refusing a vaccine that could stop them getting it.

I'd treat that tweet with the contempt it deserves, especially as you don't even know if it ever even happened.

[maxjam]

42 minutes ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Honestly, have none of you got nothing better to do than keep going over the same ground every hour of every day. 

Surely your getting bored now. What will you do with the spare time you have when in the next 4 weeks COVID stops getting spoke about around the world. 

Chuntering about covid takes my mind off the far more serious situation surrounding Derby atm!

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Honestly, have none of you got nothing better to do than keep going over the same ground every hour of every day. 

Surely your getting bored now. What will you do with the spare time you have when in the next 4 weeks COVID stops getting spoke about around the world. 

Personally from Saturday onwards I am trying not to reply to stuff I think is baalocks because as you say it’s just pointless/ boring , people wishing harm on others and or taking pleasure from it is just about the time to stop ,

the thread in some ways has kept me from exploding over the last two years though but it’s becoming the brexit thread on steroids ??‍♂️

[maxjam]

18 minutes ago, Archied said:

Personally from Saturday onwards I am trying not to reply to stuff I think is baalocks because as you say it’s just pointless/ boring , people wishing harm on others and or taking pleasure from it is just about the time to stop ,

the thread in some ways has kept me from exploding over the last two years though but it’s becoming the brexit thread on steroids ??‍♂️

Agree, I think with omicron we're hopefully nearing the end now.  

The overt misinformation still winds me up, especially when its done by politicians and the media who keep the threat of further restrictions hanging over us but as far as my daily life is goes, its pretty much back to normal.

It is probably time to dial back the involvment in this thread, it has often been tribal like the old politics thread - fun at times, a chore at others.  So I'll wish everyone a belated happy new year and unless something significant changes I think I'm about done ?

[Anon]

2 hours ago, Bald Eagle's Barmy Army said:

Honestly, have none of you got nothing better to do than keep going over the same ground every hour of every day. 

Surely your getting bored now. What will you do with the spare time you have when in the next 4 weeks COVID stops getting spoke about around the world. 

We're posting on an online football forum. I think it's safe to assume that most of us have reasonable amount of spare time.

[Mostyn6]

You’d be surprised how many nurses (and doctors) don’t believe in the vaccine and don’t actually want it. 
 

a lot have buckled under the pressure and blackmail tactics, but there’ll be a big decision to make halfway through March when the government has their bluff called by tens of thousands of nurses who blatantly refuse the vaccine. They automatically become bona fide whistle blowers, with many currently gathering evidence.