The coronabrexit thread. I mean, coronavirus thread

[PistoldPete]

6 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

By reducing the chance of catching it & spreading it. Nobody is claiming it stops it spreading completely but reducing the spread is good, no?

to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody ?

Yes exactly .. I have amended my wording to reducing the spread rather than stopping  it . But really if you reduce the risk you have stopped some people from getting the virus . I think some people are really being disingenuous. 

[BucksRam]

7 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

By reducing the chance of catching it & spreading it. Nobody is claiming it stops it spreading completely but reducing the spread is good, no?

to be honest I would have thought that was obvious, but it seems not to everybody ?

And if you have been vaccinated it shows you're less at risk of being seriously ill if (when?) you do catch it against those who haven't been vaccinated.

[Wolfie]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So I turn up to an event with a Covid passport and because the vaccine has reduced my chance of catching it, that will stop me from spreading it?

Good grief. You can't spread something you haven't got. If your chance of catching it is reduced, then your risk of spreading it it also reduced.

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Reducing the spread of it is good, but we know it can be asymptomatic so a vaccine passport WILL NOT stop you from spreading it and is therefore completely pointless.

Why is reducing the spread completely pointless?

 

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

I also know of 2 people that died after having the vaccine, although admittedly friends of colleagues so cannot verify this.

Both under 40. One died from a blood clot, the other from a heart attack.

I'm not sure people not wanting the vaccine is anything to do with 'growing up'.

It's entirely to do with evaluating risk based upon actual, scientific evidence as opposed to non-scientific anecdotal third-party stories (which might be embroidered or embossed - especially if garnered from message-boards)*.

I've had 5 confirmed blood-clotting episodes and 2 suspected over the last 12 years, since I contracted Swine Flu. If I was swayed by anecdotal evidence, do you think that I would have touched the Astra-Zeneca vaccine with a bargepole? There is one school of thought (internet and anecdote-driven) that the AZ vaccine is 'blood clot central' - then there is the statistical analysis that suggests an elevated risk (of suffering a blood clot, not necessarily dying of one) of approximately 2 in a million.

Let's put that figure on one side for a moment, and consider the chances of me dying of Covid-19. It's pretty clear now that the number of reported deaths 'within 28 days of a positive test' and excess deaths since the start of the pandemic are exceedingly close (one figure is within 0.08% of the other), so for the sake of argument, let's assume that they are accurate. So, given a figure of 146627 'Covid-19 deaths' out of a population of 68,344,816, my risk of dying from Covid-19 is approximately 2,145 in a million.

So I am approximately 1,000 times more at risk of dying from Covid-19 than I am of suffering a blood clot (fatal or non-fatal) from having the vaccine.

 

*I recognise that the part of my medical history relating to thrombosis and published on a message-board could well be construed as 'anecdotal', but who doesn't like irony?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Wolfie said:

Good grief. You can't spread something you haven't got. If your chance of catching it is reduced, then your risk of spreading it it also reduced.

Why is reducing the spread completely pointless?

 

Ah right so a vaccine passport stops you from catching it. Glad we cleared that up.

[Grumpy Git]

13 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

So I turn up to an event with a Covid passport and because the vaccine has reduced my chance of catching it, that will stop me from spreading it?

Reducing the spread of it is good, but we know it can be asymptomatic so a vaccine passport WILL NOT stop you from spreading it and is therefore completely pointless.

OMFG.

You need to change your username to Semantics Ram

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, Grumpy Git said:

OMFG.

You need to change your username to Semantics Ram

Its not senantics.

The covid vaccine does not stop you from with contacting or passing on the virus.

Therefore turning up somewhere and proving that I have had the vaccine will neither stop me from catching it off someone else, nor spreading it if I already have it.

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

41 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Why would you ask the admins to delete

Because you dived in sharing research that you clearly didn't read just because you thought it supported what you believed (or wanted to believe) rather than because it expanded or added to the debate.

Why didn't you just read it first? It was mentioned in the body and on the graph?

[G STAR RAM]

1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

Because you dived in sharing research that you clearly didn't read just because you thought it supported what you believed (or wanted to believe) rather than because it expanded or added to the debate.

Why didn't you just read it first? It was mentioned in the body and on the graph?

It was dated December 2021.

I made a mistake and hold my hands up.

If you link me to the correct figures re doctors and their families I will make a full public apology to you.

[Ram-Alf]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

Why?  The MSM keep telling us that 90% of people in ICU beds are unvaccinated.  They don't mind using out-of-date data from June!

 

The problem with that argument is that the NHS employs approx 1.3m and is already understaffed.  A 7% reduction in staff would be catastrophic at a time when there are already massive backlogs.

 

And then factor in NHS Abseteeism and it would be...well very painfull indeed

Figures here

https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-sickness-absence-rates/july-2021-provisional-statistics

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

And what has that got to do with vaccine passports?

Do you have to carry round a card saying that you wear a seatbelt?

Nope, but you have to carry a card saying you're fit to drive (or at least have access to one) because they don't want people being the wheel who pose a threat to others.

I'm not even sure whether we should have vaccine passports, I get people's resistance in certain respects, but there are shelves of Swiss cheese and bars of Crunchie with less holes than your arguments. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Bob The Badger

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Nope, but you have to carry a card saying you're fit to drive (or at least have access to one) because they don't want people being the wheel who pose a threat to others.

I'm not even sure whether we should have vaccine passports, I get people's resistance in certain respects, but there are shelves of swiss cheese and bars of Crunchie with less holes that your arguments. 

And equally fishing nets with less holes than your arguments for them...

[Archied]

41 minutes ago, PistoldPete said:

Sorry I realise the term  “stop the spread” is ambiguous . Maybe I should say “reduce the spread “ to avoid misinterpretation, but I have already said it’s about risk reduction not risk elimination . 

Good job we are getting those boosters out quick smart so we don’t get any real world figures on how much or how little two jabs stops the catching and transmission of the virus?, any bets on when we muddy the waters next with the massive 4 th jab roll out that swamps the NHS , I know let’s put massive time and financial pressure on the NHS and doctor s to stop it comming under pressure,

total joke

[maxjam]

35 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Good grief. You can't spread something you haven't got. If your chance of catching it is reduced, then your risk of spreading it it also reduced.

There have been several studies that show the vaccines only temporarily reduce the chances of you transmitting covid, and that by a small margin.  They are good at preventing serious illness but poor at preventing spread.  The latest UK Govt data shows far more vaccinated people with covid than unvaccinated in every age group bar the under 18s - a lot of whom haven't been vaccinated.  Yes this can be explained away due to the fact their are far more vaccinated people than unvaccinated but the end result is you are far more likely to meet a vaccinated person with covid than an unvaccinated person.

Furthermore, a study done in Denmark of approx 3500 omicron cases found that 75% of people with it were vaccinated (compared to Denmarks 80% vaccination rate) - a far higher rate than Delta, to the point at which vaccination status makes barely any difference.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/omicron-wave-driven-young-healthy-vaccinated-population/

Some 75 per cent of these cases were in fully vaccinated individuals, the institute added, confirming that even the double jabbed can carry the virus.

Daily cases in Denmark have surged by a third since early December, despite almost 80 per cent of the population being double vaccinated.

 

35 minutes ago, Wolfie said:

Why is reducing the spread completely pointless?

Its not, its just that covid passports won't achieve that, even more so now we have omnicron. 

[Bob The Badger]

14 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I made a mistake and hold my hands up.

You literally didn't read it!

You posted an article you didn't read to support an erroneous belief and then try and move on like it's no big thang.

Er, yeh it is, it means you lack any credibility whatsoever

And I did link to two articles. One in the US and one in the UK. The latter lumped all NHS Trust workers together, but to think doctors are lower than the average beggars belief.

Maybe you didn't read my response because you were too busy reading about Freddie Starr eating his hamster.

[Bob The Badger]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

And equally fishing nets with less holes than your arguments for them...

Genius.

And I thought Oscar Wilde was dead.

[Archied]

40 minutes ago, Eddie said:

It's entirely to do with evaluating risk based upon actual, scientific evidence as opposed to non-scientific anecdotal third-party stories (which might be embroidered or embossed - especially if garnered from message-boards)*.

I've had 5 confirmed blood-clotting episodes and 2 suspected over the last 12 years, since I contracted Swine Flu. If I was swayed by anecdotal evidence, do you think that I would have touched the Astra-Zeneca vaccine with a bargepole? There is one school of thought (internet and anecdote-driven) that the AZ vaccine is 'blood clot central' - then there is the statistical analysis that suggests an elevated risk (of suffering a blood clot, not necessarily dying of one) of approximately 2 in a million.

Let's put that figure on one side for a moment, and consider the chances of me dying of Covid-19. It's pretty clear now that the number of reported deaths 'within 28 days of a positive test' and excess deaths since the start of the pandemic are exceedingly close (one figure is within 0.08% of the other), so for the sake of argument, let's assume that they are accurate. So, given a figure of 146627 'Covid-19 deaths' out of a population of 68,344,816, my risk of dying from Covid-19 is approximately 2,145 in a million.

So I am approximately 1,000 times more at risk of dying from Covid-19 than I am of suffering a blood clot (fatal or non-fatal) from having the vaccine.

 

*I recognise that the part of my medical history relating to thrombosis and published on a message-board could well be construed as 'anecdotal', but who doesn't like irony?

My wife ,, she can’t stand it ,, all my shirts are worn creased

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

You literally didn't read it!

You posted an article you didn't read to support an erroneous belief and then try and move on like it's no big thang.

Er, yeh it is, it means you lack any credibility whatsoever

And I did link to two articles. One in the US and one in the UK. The latter lumped all NHS Trust workers together, but to think doctors are lower than the average beggars belief.

Maybe you didn't read my response because you were too busy reading about Freddie Starr eating his hamster.

You literally didn't read it by the sound of things...

[G STAR RAM]

6 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Genius.

And I thought Oscar Wilde was dead.

He is, Covid wasnt it? 

[Wolfie]

45 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Ah right so a vaccine passport stops you from catching it. Glad we cleared that up.

Stop wumming.