Who will go?

[Jourdan]

48 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

At the moment who would you drop for MtW?

Wisdom.

But it’s not necessarily about dropping someone. I just don’t see the point in getting new players in for the sake of it.

Why sign a new centre back? Why not try and at least get Te Wierik or Evans in a position where they can contribute?

Te Wierik is no good to anyone sitting at home watching Ozark every matchday.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, Asanovic70 said:

I think the style of play is important, we were the most possession-based side in the division, hence quite pedestrian & predictable. The side has become more direct, the midfielders interchangeable, so that they aren't being picked up so easily by opponents. Obviously confidence is paramount. New players don't always solve the problem, a good manager also improves those already at the club, but more options in attack would benefit the whole side & improve belief, which might spread throughout the whole side. At the moment, the team in under pressure, we've not gone behind in the last five, the challenge is: what will happen if we concede first? 

Tyler...................................

Re: Sammon & Evans debate (GE signed summer 2018)

Inflation calculator | Bank of England

£1m in 2012 is now worth in 2018 - £1.160,000 or in 2019, £1.190,000

Maybe not such a big increase as one would think, £160k/£190k

Or a Theo Robinson/Dave Martin as it is known in the Square Mile.

 

On the other hand, a £1m in 1979 is equivalent of £5m today. Not sure what to make of that.

Do think boe inflation is the same as footballer player inflation?  I doubt it given supply and demand is a much greater lever not to mention the available  resources now compared to then.  

[Sparkle]

Sell all those going out of contract this summer - no hanging about - if we offered them a contract and they haven’t signed or we don’t think we are going to use them - sell - also sell Lawrence while we can get some value 

[brady1993]

2 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I think Sibley will be going in January to cover losses, providing the takeover isn't done. I don't think I'll ever get over it. 

I can see it too. Can see him being sold on the cheap to raise cash for incomings especially if Rooney is still in charge. The only thing against it I can see is that he's a Derby fan (or at least I thought so).

I've just got this sick feeling that we are about to waste one of the most talented generations to come through the academy.

 

[Spanish]

3 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I can see it too. Can see him being sold on the cheap to raise cash for incomings especially if Rooney is still in charge. The only thing against it I can see is that he's a Derby fan (or at least I thought so).

I've just got this sick feeling that we are about to waste one of the most talented generations to come through the academy.

 

Why would Rooney do this and no other yet unknown manager keep him, odd comment IMO.

[brady1993]

Just now, Spanish said:

Why would Rooney do this and no other yet unknown manager keep him, odd comment IMO.

It's perhaps something I should have clarified and it's by no means a position that's exclusive to Rooney. 

Right now my impression is that Rooney is doing all that he can in the short term to demonstrate that he can make it as a manager and so with that in mind he's far more likely to make a very short term decision like that. Combine that with after Sibley played reasonably well against Wycombe he got droppped and since then his time has been really restricted suggesting that he's not going to be getting a whole lot of time under him in the near future. I strongly suspect as time goes on and given the decisions he's already been making he's going to favour bringing in more senior players to make an instant impact as opposed to trying to coach more out of what he's got as that's what he's mostly done so far despite frankly the performances from senior players being largely poor the whole season. You can make a perfectly reasonable argument that a bit of short termism is necessary but I think extends beyond that and we are making decisions that aren't actually even achieving that intention of short term success whilst having affects that will ripple further down the line.

The extremely cynical view is that if Rooney is percieved to save us from relegation, come the end of the season someone in the premiership will take a punt on him regardless of the circumstances that lead to it. 

My personal view is that our best chance of success (in the medium-long term particularly but short term as well) is someone who's going to come in and try to get the most out of Sibley, Knight, Buchanan and Bird alongside the likes of Bielik and Jozwiak. That could be Rooney but it really doesn't look like it.

[Spanish]

15 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

It's perhaps something I should have clarified and it's by no means a position that's exclusive to Rooney. 

Right now my impression is that Rooney is doing all that he can in the short term to demonstrate that he can make it as a manager and so with that in mind he's far more likely to make a very short term decision like that. Combine that with after Sibley played reasonably well against Wycombe he got droppped and since then his time has been really restricted suggesting that he's not going to be getting a whole lot of time under him in the near future. I strongly suspect as time goes on and given the decisions he's already been making he's going to favour bringing in more senior players to make an instant impact as opposed to trying to coach more out of what he's got as that's what he's mostly done so far despite frankly the performances from senior players being largely poor the whole season. You can make a perfectly reasonable argument that a bit of short termism is necessary but I think extends beyond that and we are making decisions that aren't actually even achieving that intention of short term success whilst having affects that will ripple further down the line.

The extremely cynical view is that if Rooney is percieved to save us from relegation, come the end of the season someone in the premiership will take a punt on him regardless of the circumstances that lead to it. 

My personal view is that our best chance of success (in the medium-long term particularly but short term as well) is someone who's going to come in and try to get the most out of Sibley, Knight, Buchanan and Bird alongside the likes of Bielik and Jozwiak. That could be Rooney but it really doesn't look like it.

Thanks for the long and considered response pretty good even if I don’t fully support it.  Not convinced about Rooney but not given up on him either.  I think we may lose talent no matter who is in charge.  Tbf I’m not up on players rights so for me the biggest loss would be knight, what can the club do to ensure we keep him, just pay him more money and hope he has a stomach for a relegation fight over brighter lights?

[RoyMac5]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Why sign a new centre back? Why not try and at least get Te Wierik or Evans in a position where they can contribute?

Neither Evans nor MtW have shown enough to be picked before Wisdom. TBH I'd rather through Wassall jnr in! ?

[Vulcanboy]

1 hour ago, Jourdan said:

Te Wierik is no good to anyone sitting at home watching Ozark every matchday.

Is it any good? 

[RamNut]

6 hours ago, Asanovic70 said:

What has Evans actually done? Come on, tell me. Covers multiple positions without actually nailing down a place in either of them. He cost £1m, reportedly, the same amount of money spent on Conor Sammon who you still have nightmares about, apparently. He doesn't kick up a fuss, brilliant - that's all we want, a yes-man.

We've spent £150m under Mel  to end up in the bottom three. I'd hate to see what your nightmares are like then about Anya & Butterfield.

 

What has Evans actually done.....wrong?

he is a decent holding midfielder, comfortable on the ball, good upper body strength, better in the air than most.

as a centre back he throws himself in the way of shots. 
he is much better than most seem willing to give him credit for. 

[europia]

7 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I think it’s difficult to truly assess what we need, because we don’t have a permanent manager and there is a constant churn of players in and out of the team.

We aren’t really utilising the squad we have as well as we can. There is not really a clear vision or consistent pattern of who fits where. Unlike 5-6 years ago, the squad is in no way settled.

Take Louie Sibley. In the space of six months, he has gone from being a starter, a key player, and a prized asset, to flitting between making up the numbers and playing for the under 23s.

In theory we should be building the squad around Buchanan, Bielik, Bird, Knight, Sibley and Jozwiak, but would you be surprised to see the club cash in on any of them at some point in the next 12 months? I wouldn’t.

Our needs in the summer were a striker and a creative midfielder. I don’t think that has changed.

But I think what we also need now is a manager with clear ideas who can make the most of the squad that he has got, because the incoming investment remains as elusive as it has been for the last 18 months.

 

Yes I imagine all players are considered disposable assets under the current ownership. Any half decent offer would be accepted to pay the bills. That's just the way it is.....

[OoooMarkWright]

Evans is a squad player at best. He’s just average. An OK defender and a below average defensive midfielder. Not great on the ball, not quick or that dominant. Just average. Every squad needs them - but definitely not first choice. Can step in and do a job for 2 games, nothing more. 

[RoyMac5]

48 minutes ago, RamNut said:

he is much better than most seem willing to give him credit for. 

take it up with the manager(s)...

[RamNut]

21 minutes ago, enachops said:

Evans is a squad player at best. He’s just average. An OK defender and a below average defensive midfielder. Not great on the ball, not quick or that dominant. Just average. Every squad needs them - but definitely not first choice. Can step in and do a job for 2 games, nothing more. 

I’m not sure that bird is any better.

if Evans smacked corners twenty feet over everyone’s heads, or slashed wildly at shots which sail aimlessly high and wide I suspect that one or two might have had cause to mention it. 
 

[Anag Ram]

5 hours ago, Jourdan said:

Wisdom.

But it’s not necessarily about dropping someone. I just don’t see the point in getting new players in for the sake of it.

Why sign a new centre back? Why not try and at least get Te Wierik or Evans in a position where they can contribute?

Te Wierik is no good to anyone sitting at home watching Ozark every matchday.

TBH there have been games where it looked like the entire defence was watching it on their iPhones!

[OoooMarkWright]

21 minutes ago, RamNut said:

I’m not sure that bird is any better.

if Evans smacked corners twenty feet over everyone’s heads, or slashed wildly at shots which sail aimlessly high and wide I suspect that one or two might have had cause to mention it. 
 

Bird put poor corners in vs Huddersfield, let’s not judge his delivery on one game. He’s had much more of an influence than Evans has had in a Derby shirt. By far a better player and has potential to go much higher than Evans ever will. Although he has been poor this year so far! 

[RamNut]

8 minutes ago, enachops said:

Bird put poor corners in vs Huddersfield, let’s not judge his delivery on one game. 

It was the same  v stoke

[Rev]

Evans was £200k, wasn't he?

Certainly nowhere near a million.

[Brammie Steve]

5 hours ago, brady1993 said:

I can see it too. Can see him being sold on the cheap to raise cash for incomings especially if Rooney is still in charge. The only thing against it I can see is that he's a Derby fan (or at least I thought so).

I've just got this sick feeling that we are about to waste one of the most talented generations to come through the academy.

 

We've made some huge mistakes over the years but selling Sibley would be one of the biggest.

Like other academy graduates we have some future stars who need runs out in the first team to grow and achieve their full potential.

To use players such as Sibley as Bench warmers and expect them to also be game changers is ridiculous.

We must resist the temptation to sell players on only to bemoan their success in other clubs seems pointless to me.

[DCFC27]

5 hours ago, brady1993 said:

It's perhaps something I should have clarified and it's by no means a position that's exclusive to Rooney. 

Right now my impression is that Rooney is doing all that he can in the short term to demonstrate that he can make it as a manager and so with that in mind he's far more likely to make a very short term decision like that. Combine that with after Sibley played reasonably well against Wycombe he got droppped and since then his time has been really restricted suggesting that he's not going to be getting a whole lot of time under him in the near future. I strongly suspect as time goes on and given the decisions he's already been making he's going to favour bringing in more senior players to make an instant impact as opposed to trying to coach more out of what he's got as that's what he's mostly done so far despite frankly the performances from senior players being largely poor the whole season. You can make a perfectly reasonable argument that a bit of short termism is necessary but I think extends beyond that and we are making decisions that aren't actually even achieving that intention of short term success whilst having affects that will ripple further down the line.

The extremely cynical view is that if Rooney is percieved to save us from relegation, come the end of the season someone in the premiership will take a punt on him regardless of the circumstances that lead to it. 

My personal view is that our best chance of success (in the medium-long term particularly but short term as well) is someone who's going to come in and try to get the most out of Sibley, Knight, Buchanan and Bird alongside the likes of Bielik and Jozwiak. That could be Rooney but it really doesn't look like it.

I just think Rooney has been picking experience and crafters over talent at the moment. 
He likes Shinnie alongside Knight and Beliek because they run all game long and win second balls. I also think He doesn’t like too many kids out there, I think he always wants a mix of older heads and youth. Again I think this is the correct approach as at the start of the season they were being hung out to dry under Cocu.

I would have preferred to have seen Sibley instead of Bird in the last game but I just think it was decided on Bird having more games under his belt. 

 

This would be my preferred line up 

             Marshall

Byrne Wiz Clarke Fozzy 

           Beliek

Knight         Sibley 

Joz Richards Lawrence 

 

If however you put Buchanan in I’d drop Sibley for Shinnie. They are good enough, it’s just when they come up against smart opponents we come undone. 
I think Rooney is handling as they should be and we will see more and more of Sibley.