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Who will go?


Anag Ram

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15 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

 

Te Wierik should be allowed to leave. In fairness, he's moved to a new country/team during a pandemic, so not entirely sure what his domestic arrangements are (family still  back in Holland?) & that may have affected things. He was a mainstay at a club and now has become a peripheral figure. A loan to an Eredivisie team, maybe back to Groningen, could be the best outcome.

I'd like to see Evans go, he was part of a Reading side that reached a play-off final & then collapsed spectacularly under Stam the next season. Is he a midfielder? is he a defender? He just doesn't seem to offer very much. 

I'd like Marriott to stay unless we do a trade/player exchange, like for like in terms of his position. 

I disagree with the  suggestion we off-load Shinnie, he's the sort of player we need in to cope with the physical nature of this division.

I hope we can bring in at least two strikers, probably loans, in January, so giving us options and not placing the burden solely on one individual. We are continually being linked with Keinan Davis (Aston Villa). I wonder if it might be possible to bring in Glenn Murray if Brighton cancel his loan at Watford, though he appears to be on the wane. Murray's experience, as well as CKR's, could also benefit Davis.

Evans only just signed a new contact. He's a great player to have in the squad. Can cover multiple positions, can start the odd game and seems content to do that without kicking up fuss.

Marriott needs to go. Can't stay fit, lacks ability, doesn't fit in most systems.

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4 hours ago, Srg said:

Evans only just signed a new contact. He's a great player to have in the squad. Can cover multiple positions, can start the odd game and seems content to do that without kicking up fuss.

What has Evans actually done? Come on, tell me. Covers multiple positions without actually nailing down a place in either of them. He cost £1m, reportedly, the same amount of money spent on Conor Sammon who you still have nightmares about, apparently. He doesn't kick up a fuss, brilliant - that's all we want, a yes-man.

We've spent £150m under Mel  to end up in the bottom three. I'd hate to see what your nightmares are like then about Anya & Butterfield.

 

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15 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

What has Evans actually done? Come on, tell me. Covers multiple positions without actually nailing down a place in either of them. He cost £1m, reportedly, the same amount of money spent on Conor Sammon who you still have nightmares about, apparently. He doesn't kick up a fuss, brilliant - that's all we want, a yes-man.

We've spent £150m under Mel  to end up in the bottom three. I'd hate to see what your nightmares are like then about Anya & Butterfield.

 

Ah yes, because £1m is the same in football in Sammon's day than it is now. Got you.

You got out of bed the wrong side this morning, or did Evans make a pass at Mrs Asanovic?

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Sammon was only bought a few years ago, 2012. I think you'll find the value of a £1m has changed slightly more from the time Forest signed Trevor Francis.

Anyway, if you're resorting to  cheap jibes, it suggests you've lost the argument. I asked you once, and I'll ask you again since you come across as a bit thick: what has Evans done at Derby to warrant such unswerving belief?  

Judging by Evans' past performances at Derby, the pass to Mrs Asanovic  probably went over her head, or was misplaced to the side of her.

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7 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

Sammon was only bought a few years ago, 2012. I think you'll find the value of a £1m has changed slightly more from the time Forest signed Trevor Francis.

Anyway, if you're resorting to  cheap jibes, it suggests you've lost the argument. I asked you once, and I'll ask you again since you come across as a bit thick: what has Evans done at Derby to warrant such unswerving belief?  

Judging by Evans' past performances at Derby, the pass to Mrs Asanovic  probably went over her head, or was misplaced to the side of her.

Think you're guilty slightly of undermining your own argument. A few years ago is actually nearly a decade ago man so £1 million then would be worth a lot more money now in real terms. £1 million pounds now is chicken feed for a player comparative to what you should be getting for your money a decade ago. Just remember some of the hugely inflated transfer fees we've paid recently so in comparison Evans seems like OK value for money quite frankly - again everything is comparitive

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A squad player is a squad player, all parties know that. Nice training facilities, on the bench every week. Good living. Suits all parties until we get promoted. However when you look how.much football you are actually.playing it could be distressing. Every club needs players like Evans. Chelsea equivalents cost £20-30 million apiece. If Burnley get taken over very rapidly that would tell us something. £200 million now but how much are they wirth if they get relegated this season.

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I disagree with you Tyler somewhat, we signed Sammon, £1m, & then someone like Anya for £7m in 2016 (four years later). The point I wish to make is slightly different that I find some of our fans penny-wise, pound foolish. 

I think Conor Sammon was a stick with which some of our fan-base beat Clough, conveniently forgetting that he also brought in Martin (oh no, him again). I remember reading a comment by Steve Nicholson about Clough's exit. Clough was forced to shop around within a certain market range which always carries an element of risk. Of course, you make a valid point about inflation. However, we have spent/Mel Morris has spent millions with the luxury of choice & the strike rate has been abysmal. Our fans are not comparing like for like when they berate Clough, he had to shop in an entirely different market. 

We don't seem to be seeing the wood for the trees. Evans is symptomatic of the waste of the last few years, chicken feed or not, it accumulates.  He starts the odd game now & again, I am told. So what?  So did Nick Blackman. We need players who can make a contribution & put in regular performances. Evans has had the opportunity to nail down a starting place but has failed to do so. Instead, we have seen two of our own youngsters deemed more worthy of a starting place in midfield (Knight, Bird).

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I think it’s difficult to truly assess what we need, because we don’t have a permanent manager and there is a constant churn of players in and out of the team.

We aren’t really utilising the squad we have as well as we can. There is not really a clear vision or consistent pattern of who fits where. Unlike 5-6 years ago, the squad is in no way settled.

Take Louie Sibley. In the space of six months, he has gone from being a starter, a key player, and a prized asset, to flitting between making up the numbers and playing for the under 23s.

In theory we should be building the squad around Buchanan, Bielik, Bird, Knight, Sibley and Jozwiak, but would you be surprised to see the club cash in on any of them at some point in the next 12 months? I wouldn’t.

Our needs in the summer were a striker and a creative midfielder. I don’t think that has changed.

But I think what we also need now is a manager with clear ideas who can make the most of the squad that he has got, because the incoming investment remains as elusive as it has been for the last 18 months.

 

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17 minutes ago, Jourdan said:

I think it’s difficult to truly assess what we need, because we don’t have a permanent manager and there is a constant churn of players in and out of the team.

We aren’t really utilising the squad we have as well as we can. There is not really a clear vision or consistent pattern of who fits where. Unlike 5-6 years ago, the squad is in no way settled.

Take Louie Sibley. In the space of six months, he has gone from being a starter, a key player, and a prized asset, to flitting between making up the numbers and playing for the under 23s.

In theory we should be building the squad around Buchanan, Bielik, Bird, Knight, Sibley and Jozwiak, but would you be surprised to see the club cash in on any of them at some point in the next 12 months? I wouldn’t.

Our needs in the summer were a striker and a creative midfielder. I don’t think that has changed.

But I think what we also need now is a manager with clear ideas who can make the most of the squad that he has got, because the incoming investment remains as elusive as it has been for the last 18 months.

 

You raise some good points especially about not utilising the squad well enough, currently lacking a clear vision in how we want to move forward and desperately needing the manager sorted. 

For me the manager is clearly the most important signing we can make as this squad should be doing better than it is currently. We have a few thin positions but I'm not sure it will actually change much until we've sorted all that other stuff out. 

There is multiple players you can point to as examples of this and to demonstrate it I'll pick out a couple of the most maligned; Waghorn and Lawrence.

For all their faults they've both pretty consistently been good for around 10 goals a season (Waghorn a touch more, Lawrence perhaps a touch less). And yet we are sat approaching the half way point of the season and neither has scored from open play. Why ? Or perhaps a more popular example, Knight bagged 6 in about half a seasons play last yet and then 1 this year. Again, why? 

The problem is systematic and until we solve the root cause of it, new players won't solve it.

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I think the style of play is important, we were the most possession-based side in the division, hence quite pedestrian & predictable. The side has become more direct, the midfielders interchangeable, so that they aren't being picked up so easily by opponents. Obviously confidence is paramount. New players don't always solve the problem, a good manager also improves those already at the club, but more options in attack would benefit the whole side & improve belief, which might spread throughout the whole side. At the moment, the team in under pressure, we've not gone behind in the last five, the challenge is: what will happen if we concede first? 

Tyler...................................

Re: Sammon & Evans debate (GE signed summer 2018)

Inflation calculator | Bank of England

£1m in 2012 is now worth in 2018 - £1.160,000 or in 2019, £1.190,000

Maybe not such a big increase as one would think, £160k/£190k

Or a Theo Robinson/Dave Martin as it is known in the Square Mile.

 

On the other hand, a £1m in 1979 is equivalent of £5m today. Not sure what to make of that.

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1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

I think Sibley will be going in January to cover losses, providing the takeover isn't done. I don't think I'll ever get over it. 

I'll be just as upset if it's Knight.

Surely someone could give us some money for Marriott - strikers cost lots of lob!

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41 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

You raise some good points especially about not utilising the squad well enough, currently lacking a clear vision in how we want to move forward and desperately needing the manager sorted. 

For me the manager is clearly the most important signing we can make as this squad should be doing better than it is currently. We have a few thin positions but I'm not sure it will actually change much until we've sorted all that other stuff out. 

There is multiple players you can point to as examples of this and to demonstrate it I'll pick out a couple of the most maligned; Waghorn and Lawrence.

For all their faults they've both pretty consistently been good for around 10 goals a season (Waghorn a touch more, Lawrence perhaps a touch less). And yet we are sat approaching the half way point of the season and neither has scored from open play. Why ? Or perhaps a more popular example, Knight bagged 6 in about half a seasons play last yet and then 1 this year. Again, why? 

The problem is systematic and until we solve the root cause of it, new players won't solve it.

I think new players will help, but having a good manager who can get the best out of them would help a lot more.

We have Marshall, Bielik, Buchanan and Knight consistently performing close to what they are capable of. That’s four out of a squad of 20 or more.

People are desperate for new players, but surely having a manager who can get more out of the existing group would be more prudent and should be more of a priority?

People keep saying we need a striker but what use will he be if the manager can’t get a tune out of the creative players like Lawrence and Jozwiak, and doesn’t trust other attacking players like Sibley, Ibe or Waghorn enough to give them regular minutes either?

People also keep saying we need a centre back to replace Davies, but again what use will he be when he’s at risk of playing second fiddle to a right back, or not getting a kick at all? We wouldn’t need a centre back if we had a manager committed to utilising and getting the best out of current players like Te Wierik or Evans.

I absolutely agree. We shouldn’t even be thinking about transfer activity until we actually have a permanent manager in place.

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Jourdan,

A new manager can only get so much out of some players, like Teale. Every time I hear someone say a new manager could get a tune out of George Evans, I have a vision of Pete Townsend smashing a guitar against some amps.

A new striker is vitally important, I think, we are not blessed with options here. We need the right additions in key areas, not a raft of additions. Confidence is key in football as well as a settled line-up. Partnerships are beginning to form, like Byrne & Jozwiak on the right. We are starting from a position of disadvantage, a poor start, confidence shot, it's also been a job about injecting some resilience back into the team. The defence has improved, but it cannot be relied upon always to keep a clean-sheet. More options in attack will relieve that pressure.

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2 strikers needed. It's not as if we have great strikers of a football or great finishers who are not getting the service. 

Truth is, we don't have a natural finisher in the club. 

Lots of talented footballers but no end product. 

Strikers win championships. 

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41 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

I think the style of play is important, we were the most possession-based side in the division, hence quite pedestrian & predictable. The side has become more direct, the midfielders interchangeable, so that they aren't being picked up so easily by opponents. Obviously confidence is paramount. New players don't always solve the problem, a good manager also improves those already at the club, but more options in attack would benefit the whole side & improve belief, which might spread throughout the whole side. At the moment, the team in under pressure, we've not gone behind in the last five, the challenge is: what will happen if we concede first? 

Tyler...................................

Re: Sammon & Evans debate (GE signed summer 2018)

Inflation calculator | Bank of England

£1m in 2012 is now worth in 2018 - £1.160,000 or in 2019, £1.190,000

Maybe not such a big increase as one would think, £160k/£190k

Or a Theo Robinson/Dave Martin as it is known in the Square Mile.

 

On the other hand, a £1m in 1979 is equivalent of £5m today. Not sure what to make of that.

Just a quick pointer if you want to direct a message to a particular poster then add @ followed by the posters name for example @Asanovic70

Now regards your point inflation relating to the economy and footballing inflation are incomparable - footballing transfer inflation has risen exponentially over the past decade whereby retail price inflation has remained steady at its relatively low rates.

So £1 million pounds for a player ten years ago would be something like 5 or 6 million nowadays which is a significant transfer fee for a Championship club. 

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7 minutes ago, Asanovic70 said:

Jourdan,

A new manager can only get so much out of some players, like Teale. Every time I hear someone say a new manager could get a tune out of George Evans, I have a vision of Pete Townsend smashing a guitar against some amps.

A new striker is vitally important, I think, we are not blessed with options here. We need the right additions in key areas, not a raft of additions. Confidence is key in football as well as a settled line-up. Partnerships are beginning to form, like Byrne & Jozwiak on the right. We are starting from a position of disadvantage, a poor start, confidence shot, it's also been a job about injecting some resilience back into the team. The defence has improved, but it cannot be relied upon always to keep a clean-sheet. More options in attack will relieve that pressure.

Of course, a new manager won’t be able to turn everyone into superstars.

I am not even necessarily advocating for Evans. Te Wierik’s non-inclusion is the more concerning one. It was just an example of how we are not really making the most of our squad.

Ask yourself, are you satisfied with the levels of performance being produced by the majority of the squad?

To me, if we had 10-15 players playing to their very best and it still wasn’t enough, then yes, go ahead and bring in new players.

But take some of our key players from last season - Lawrence, Waghorn, Knight, Sibley and Holmes. Only one of them is playing anywhere close to levels we have seen from them previously.

I agree that we do need a striker. That has been obvious since Martin’s contract talks broke down.

However I don’t think that one signing on its own will be enough if the management team are not getting the most out of so many players in the squad.

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1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said:

I'll be just as upset if it's Knight.

Surely someone could give us some money for Marriott - strikers cost lots of lob!

We might need Marriott if we are in league one ! - besides Marriott isn’t a striker and if he was he would score goals same for the likes of Lawrence he plays on the wing but but he isn’t a winger because he doesn’t get to a bye line and never crosses to our players 

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