kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just put of interest and because I wasn't on the forums back then,but was there a section of the forum offered similar expectations of Nigel Cloughs teams finally coming together and achieving results prior to him finally being sacked and replaced by mac? I just seen to recall familiar debates in the press around that time between those who perpetually thought a turnaround was around the the corner and those who thought he should be sacked.... There also seems to be similarities in their reserved playing styles which presumably caused division between fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixman1884 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Yeah lots of similarities for me, except clough had less of a budget. Clough also pulled out some great performances now and then. Can't wait for Mac to come in and get cocus players looking like a real team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Expectation levels were raised exponentially by McClaren's first tenure. It wasn't like this during Clough, from what I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustylee Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I think a lot of fans were relieved in the end when Clough was sacked but weren’t actually calling for him to be sacked. I think there is a far greater group that actively want Cocu out. I think the perceived similarities between the two periods is that the football is dull and defensive in the main. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Ram Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Both took over at really challenging times..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 The similarities are unreal to be fair. Both play boring, negative football, which makes me lose interest in watching us, because the results are inevitable. There’s nothing interesting about Derby on the pitch anymore. It’s the same story every week - set up defensively, try to nick one goal, then sit back and defend the lead. And, of course, it fails. Championship defenders aren’t good enough to play that sort of game. It was exactly the same under Clough, from what I remember. If it wasn’t for his sacking and replacement by McClaren, I’m not sure I’d have stayed a football fan. Mac showed there’s more to football than what we’re seeing at the moment. Clough was holding his players back with his negative tactics and lack of ambition, and Cocu is doing the same imo. Hopefully we can bring in a more attacking manager soon, to at least give us some more entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jimbo Ram said: Both took over at really challenging times..... Well,that was what I was thinking...both rebuilding with less cash and originally with a similar agenda to fulfill. I wonder if that kind of patient thorough manager leads to the kind of cautious football both seemed to play.....it reflects their essential personalities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 You always knew that a full season would be over not long after Christmas (exact dates can't be remembered at my age) with Clough. But at least Cocu seems to be giving us something to play for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You always knew that a full season would be over not long after Christmas (exact dates can't be remembered at my age) with Clough. But at least Cocu seems to be giving us something to play for... Which is...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Millenniumram said: The similarities are unreal to be fair. Both play boring, negative football, which makes me lose interest in watching us, because the results are inevitable. There’s nothing interesting about Derby on the pitch anymore. It’s the same story every week - set up defensively, try to nick one goal, then sit back and defend the lead. And, of course, it fails. Championship defenders aren’t good enough to play that sort of game. It was exactly the same under Clough, from what I remember. If it wasn’t for his sacking and replacement by McClaren, I’m not sure I’d have stayed a football fan. Mac showed there’s more to football than what we’re seeing at the moment. Clough was holding his players back with his negative tactics and lack of ambition, and Cocu is doing the same imo. Hopefully we can bring in a more attacking manager soon, to at least give us some more entertainment. I thought we started on the front foot more than set up defensively today even though it can be argued the actual shape of the team can be construed as defensive. The first 20 mins was probably the best we've played all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Which is...? Oh bugger, bluff called! ? A season-long relegation battle! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said: I thought we started on the front foot more than set up defensively today even though it can be argued the actual shape of the team can be construed as defensive. The first 20 mins was probably the best we've played all season. But doesn't that sound like Nigel? We knew there would never be any sustained challenge - season or match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coneheadjohn Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Which is...? Survival? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 8 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: You always knew that a full season would be over not long after Christmas (exact dates can't be remembered at my age) with Clough. But at least Cocu seems to be giving us something to play for... A curious view of a 'season'. To me, every game is important because Derby are playing in it. That we may not be challenging for promotion never means the season is over for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just now, AndyinLiverpool said: A curious view of a 'season'. To me, every game is important because Derby are playing in it. That we may not be challenging for promotion never means the season is over for me. You know what he means though surely? Once we know we are not getting relegated or promoted (or play offs) then yes we can have interest in individual matches but it loses that excitement and fix a bit doesn't it ....it turns into a slight sadness to me and I prefer that at the end of the season to the middle personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumram Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, Steve How Hard? said: I thought we started on the front foot more than set up defensively today even though it can be argued the actual shape of the team can be construed as defensive. The first 20 mins was probably the best we've played all season. To be fair, I do agree on today’s performance. It hasn’t been the norm for us to start so brightly though. And we reverted to type pretty quick too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I think Clough’s teams played better football on the whole, especially relative to budget and expectations. I think the frustration with Clough was the perennial inability to kick on. It was five years of the same frustrations. I remember in 2010-11, we were 4th in November and then went on a run of just four wins and three draws in 28 games and barely survived. From then, you just knew that promotion or even the play offs was never a possibility under Clough. Most years we looked like two different teams - committed, honest and enjoyable to watch at home, but typically listless and abject away from home with the occasional exception. I think the frustration with Cocu is that he came in with a good reputation and pedigree greater than 80-90% of managers in the Championship and a reasonably strong team/budget to boot, whereas for Clough it was a big step up in managerial terms. Funnily enough I can’t remember expectation / acceptance levels being this low even under Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: Once we know we are not getting relegated or promoted (or play offs) then yes we can have interest in individual matches but it loses that excitement and fix a bit doesn't it ....it turns into a slight sadness to me and I prefer that at the end of the season to the middle personally. 5 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: That we may not be challenging for promotion never means the season is over for me. But of course if we don't look like we're realistically challenging for Top 6 then it will be next to impossible to hold on to our best players long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve How Hard? Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: But doesn't that sound like Nigel? We knew there would never be any sustained challenge - season or match. It's hard to argue constructively against that given how things are going Roy. I'm just looking at the whole picture and giving Cocu the benefit of the doubt. I like the bloke and desperately want him to succeed due to the fact he's remained loyal to us when he's had numerous opportunities to just walk away. As the saying goes "good guys rarely win" (or something like that). I just think he deserves to break the mould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 Just now, Steve How Hard? said: ...due to the fact he's remained loyal to us when he's had numerous opportunities to just walk away. How so? I'm sure he needs money the same as the next person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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