Old Spalding Ram Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Seems more details regards PBP are dribbling out. “Project Big Picture” proposes that the loan system be restructured. Clubs would be allowed to have up to 15 players on loan at other domestic teams – and they would be allowed to loan up to four to a single English club, with the rule that a club can only loan two over-23 players from another club scrapped. I’m beginning to agree with Tranmere owner Mark Palios on this one. <i>“There are sweeteners in there, but they are designed to obfuscate I think what is the main issue and that is the long-term damage it does to the pyramid by giving the power to the ‘Big Six’. A long time ago, I used the phrase that you may as well put the keys to football in a jiffy bag and send them up the M6.”</i> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I've decided to look into the proposals in a bit more detail... Rescue Funding The £250m rescue package is an advance on future payments. This is good for the short-term as it helps cover expected losses for the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons. However, it means clubs will need to cut expenditure in future seasons as a result. £100m goes to the FA for similar reasons, including £20m to grassroots and women's football. Structure PL to be made up of 18 teams, with 24 in each of the 3 tiers below. - Championship sees 2 or 3 going up, 3 going down - L1 - 3 up, 4 down - L2 - 4 up, 4 down Redistribution of TV money Currently 3 proposals: 50% equal share among clubs in each division, 25% based on current season position, 25% based on previous 3 years 50% equal share among clubs in each division, 25% based on current season position, 25% based on facility fees, £25m withheld from newly promoted clubs for 2 years (essentially parachute money) 50% equal share among clubs in each division, 25% based on current season position, 25% based on facility fees, newly promoted clubs receive 25% of allocated facility fees for first 3 years Total handouts from the PL to EFL increases from £350m to about £650m. The infrastructure payments make up part of this total. So too does the EPPP funding Club Media PL clubs have individual TV rights for up to 8 games Up to 27 games to be shown live in the UK Saturday 3pm blackouts to remain in place Highlights can be shown during the games on social media Competitions No more League Cup or Community Shield Women's league to be separate from the PL and FA A new PL summer tournament, which PL clubs must participate in at least once every 5 years (essentially replacing pre-season) Loans Maximum of 15 players out on loan, with a maximum of 4 to a single club. No limit on the total number of players on loan at a club. 1 month loans allowable for U23 players Recall clauses in case of a change in manager Future payments to a loaning club in the form of future performance payments or sell on clauses. P&S Rules to be tweaked to align with UEFA (which includes no stadium sales) £50m cap on related party transactions A joint monitoring body for PL and Championship EFL to have a salary cap. Governance PL matters to require shareholder approval, with a two thirds majority required. 1 club, 1 vote. PL Board approves new owners 9 longest serving PL clubs get "special voting rights" including adopting: - election/removal of the CEO or a member of the board - changes to cost control rules - TV rights contracts The 9 clubs can also prevent changes to: - TV rights contracts - distribution of other centralised rights - the nature of a the PL (number of teams, relegation, etc...) - Approval of a new PL owner Most of that seems pretty fair to me. The exceptions being: - Playoffs between PL and Championship - No limit on the number of loans a club can have - I'm unsure if the handouts are 25% of total TV money or just from the domestic deal. There was a bit of controversy about this a couple of years ago. - Ending the League Cup (presumably some clubs don't want a repeat of Swansea in 2013 or Birmingham in 2011 and a big club misses out on Europe) - Special Voting Rights, preventing a takeover and possibly altering the structure of TV deals to limit what goes to the EFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Oh I wish they'd just feck off already. Not before Dyche is relegated though. Then close that door behind him. Go get smashed by Bayern Munich 4 times per year, charge £30ppv and we can all carry on without you. The big six. Arsenal who are useless. Spurs who have won about as much as Wigan recently, Man City who have been big for less time than I've had pubes. Liverpool who won the league they've been promising since the last dinosaur. Who else? Chelsea? Yeah, they're Man City yesterday The biggest of all, Man United. Who you can rule out winning the PL for this year, next year and the year after. They don't even show up on Real Madrid's radar anymore. I'll win the European Cup before them. And of course West Ham get a say in all this. Why? Nobody knows. Does Paulo Di Canio still play for them? If the PL wanted to help then it could have in the past. They obviously don't. They want to close the market so you don't get nobodies like Leicester and Wolves rudely disrupting the monopoly. How dare they. Dont they know that Man City have to secure show business in China to pay for 300m players? Helping football. Riiiiight. I don't know why people pay to watch that poo. It really isn't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC_Sloth Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 If this kind of legislation passes through I will be done with football. In my lifetime I have seen the gap at the top grow and competition fall. All I have ever known is a world with the Premier League and the top end of that is becoming a more and more closed shop. Looking back over the last four or five seasons we are seeing teams winning the top division by greater and greater margins and losing fewer games. The same clubs qualify for the top competitions and the rest are becoming teams who simply make up the numbers. I am already resigned to the fact that in my entire life I will not see Derby win any major trophy, and to a degree i am resigned to the fact that there is a good chance I won't see them compete for one either. Football as a competitive game has, most likely, already slipped like sand between our fingers, the game probably is gone. We are a club that has twice been champions of England and has won an FA Cup, a club that has support inside the top 20 of the country, and a club that founded the English football league and yet we are already a supporting act to the so called 'top six'. If this change to the rules passes and those so called 'top six' can dictate the rules to the rest of English football, not just the Premier League but the entirety of the pyramid, them I will walk away from the sport. It will simply be even more unfair than it already is. The wealth is hoarded at the top in such a way that no team can realistically build a side good enough to topple them as it is because the teams at the top just take their best players. We would be (if we are not already) tuning in each week to watch the same teams win in dominant fashion against a different supporting cast of also rans each week. If this power swap happens, the 'top six' can decide that they get larger revenue shares, they can dictate when their games will be played, how many are televised, when transfer windows open, where they get to play games, put simply, they get to load a deck already loaded in their favour. They are even making moves in this bill to assure that their women's teams will have a similar dominance over their respective leagues. As fans this is the point where we need to stand up for ourselves and our clubs. We pay so much money and spend so much time following a sport which is being completely torn apart and rebuilt as a corporate Frankenstein before our eyes. We already have to contend with our games being moved for sky who pay us absolute pittance for the privilege, have narratives put over our clubs from the outside and have no realistic hope of competing at the top end of the system. I am not suggesting that Derby have any kind of rite to be in the top division competing for titles every year, but they (and every other club) should have a fair shot at being able to do so. If six teams gain the ability to govern the sport they are supposed to compete in, then we may as well pack up and go home. The time for major reform is now, but this simply is not it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Will be glad when the "big six" form a euro super league. Can get back to normal football then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaspode Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 Greg Clarke at the FA has apparently written a letter to FA Council memebers regarding the plot - he reportedly walked away from discussions when it became apparent it was a power-grab. He's also explained to the plotters how the FA have to consent to setting up new competitions and also have to sanction teams playing in Europe....Maybe it's not quite as likely to happen as some people think.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Alpha said: Oh I wish they'd just feck off already. Not before Dyche is relegated though. Then close that door behind him. Go get smashed by Bayern Munich 4 times per year, charge £30ppv and we can all carry on without you. The big six. Arsenal who are useless. Spurs who have won about as much as Wigan recently, Man City who have been big for less time than I've had pubes. Liverpool who won the league they've been promising since the last dinosaur. Who else? Chelsea? Yeah, they're Man City yesterday The biggest of all, Man United. Who you can rule out winning the PL for this year, next year and the year after. They don't even show up on Real Madrid's radar anymore. I'll win the European Cup before them. And of course West Ham get a say in all this. Why? Nobody knows. Does Paulo Di Canio still play for them? If the PL wanted to help then it could have in the past. They obviously don't. They want to close the market so you don't get nobodies like Leicester and Wolves rudely disrupting the monopoly. How dare they. Dont they know that Man City have to secure show business in China to pay for 300m players? Helping football. Riiiiight. I don't know why people pay to watch that poo. It really isn't that good. This should be printed out and framed and put up in every dressing room in the country... PERFECTLY put.. I don't care if we never ever play any of the "big 6" again...I have seen us beat all of them on numerous occasions home and away, been to all their grounds when the attendance has been less that a half decent Sunderland crowd in there they are totally irrelevant to us now, we are never going to be able to have enough money to compete with them on a level playing field so screw them, let them go. I can remember when the top 6 teams in the country have included the likes of Forest, Villa, Newcastle, Us, Ipswich, Wimbledon, Norwich, Bolton, Wednesday etc etc The top flight will be better off without them, it will be essentially be a slightly better Championship with a bunch of teams actually with a chance to win it. Let them go and play Bayern and Real and get smashed all over the place, let them go and play all their pre season/mid season friendlies in Qatar, let them be the latest play thing for a corrupt nation/individual with their latest official noodle partner splashed all over their shirts. Just make them sign something that says when it all comes crashing down (which it will eventually) that they cant come crawling back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 9 hours ago, ColonelBlimp said: Give a voting fraction ( 1/2 or 1/4 ) to each founder member. Just make the top league closed off entirely and only allow efl founding members to play in it. That way none of the "big 6" get to play in it. 1 hour ago, Alpha said: The big six. Arsenal who are useless. Spurs who have won about as much as Wigan recently, Man City who have been big for less time than I've had pubes. Liverpool who won the league they've been promising since the last dinosaur. Who else? Chelsea? Yeah, they're Man City yesterday The biggest of all, Man United. Who you can rule out winning the PL for this year, next year and the year after. They don't even show up on Real Madrid's radar anymore. I'll win the European Cup before them. We've been champions of England more times than spurs in the last 50 years (and the same in total) and we haven't even played in top league for much of the past 30. We'd also been champions more times than Chelsea until their billionaire buyout and the same as Man City until theirs happened. The only reason they want to do this is to further stifle competition and ensure no more Chelseas or Man Citys can happen. Its the same reason we have ffp - to stop anyone else spending their way to the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, GenBr said: Just make the top league closed off entirely and only allow efl founding members to play in it. That way none of the "big 6" get to play in it. We've been champions of England more times than spurs in the last 50 years (and the same in total) and we haven't even played in top league for much of the past 30. We'd also been champions more times than Chelsea until their billionaire buyout and the same as Man City until theirs happened. The only reason they want to do this is to further stifle competition and ensure no more Chelseas or Man Citys can happen. Its the same reason we have ffp - to stop anyone else spending their way to the top. Based on all-time average league positions, "the big 6" all place in the top 8 - joined by Everton and Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenBr Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Based on all-time average league positions, "the big 6" all place in the top 8 - joined by Everton and Villa. I know you like statistics, but not sure how thats relevant to anything i said, but ok. The point i am making is that granting supposed big 6 any preferential treatment is nonsense when half of them have achieved zilch without billionaire owners. Average league position is an even worse statistic to use - no idea why you would even suggest that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Based on all-time average league positions, "the big 6" all place in the top 8 - joined by Everton and Villa. Chelsea, Spurs and City are not big clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 54 minutes ago, GenBr said: I know you like statistics, but not sure how thats relevant to anything i said, but ok. The point i am making is that granting supposed big 6 any preferential treatment is nonsense when half of them have achieved zilch without billionaire owners. Average league position is an even worse statistic to use - no idea why you would even suggest that. You were downplaying the 'achievements' of Chelsea, Man City and Spurs. They may not have won much until recently, but they've consistently been up amongst the best more than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 56 minutes ago, MuespachRam said: Chelsea, Spurs and City are not big clubs. Globally, they certainly are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 EFL are saying strong support from their clubs for project big picture Breaking SSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghost of Clough said: Based on all-time average league positions, "the big 6" all place in the top 8 - joined by Everton and Villa. Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Man Utd, Villa, City, Newcastle, Sunderland.......all above Chelsea and Tottenham on all time average league positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleEatonRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 This should be opposed in the strongest terms. It's simply a flagrant, cynically timed power grab by the Big 6. PL down to 18 teams? Great! More time for lucrative pre-season friendly tours of the Far East. Plus, fewer teams to have to distribute the TV cash between! No more parachute payments? Great! That'll be a nice disincentive to newly promoted teams to spend lots of cash on players and make them even less competitive. No more League Cup and Community Shield? Great! We're not interested in them as we don't get lots of money for winning them, and all they do is provide scumbag smaller clubs with a day out at Wembley and a chance for some silverware. We'd do away with the FA Cup too if we could, but the rest of the FL wouldn't buy into our proposal if we did that. And the best one of all...greater voting rights for 9 clubs over all the rest! (We would have said just the Big 6 but that would have made our Machiavellianism too obvious, and we can't just say the 6 'longest serving PL clubs' as that would mean Everton but not Man City). This one is the one that we really want, because then we can make all the other points subject to change whenever we like, and ensure nobody gets uppity enough to think they can join our elite society. Oh, and there's the £250m for the EFL. We call this the 'bait'. I wish they'd all just piss off to their inevitable European Super League. By rights football fans around the country should be furious about this, but all the EFL will go for it like turkeys voting for Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 1 hour ago, MuespachRam said: Liverpool, Arsenal, Everton, Man Utd, Villa, City, Newcastle, Sunderland.......all above Chelsea and Tottenham on all time average league positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuespachRam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 40 minutes ago, Ghost of Clough said: Or..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Curtains said: EFL are saying strong support from their clubs for project big picture Breaking SSN Just watching that now - how many EFL clubs have got genuine ambitions of reaching the Premier League though and just fancy a chunk of the cash thats on offer? Interesting that most PL clubs are against it. I guess that the clubs that are top end of the championship and outside the top 6 in the Premier League don't want to be thwarted in their chance of becoming the next Man City or Leicester whereas for everyone else project big picture makes sense. It will make being a Derby fan, or similar sized club borderline pointless as we'll forever be limited as to what progress we can make as the cards will be forever stacked against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted October 13, 2020 Author Share Posted October 13, 2020 SSN FA chairman Greg Clarke walked away from project Big Picture when Man U and Liverpool threatened breakaway league Prem teams saying they want Rick Parry to resign before they agree a bail out for EFL and most opposed to Big Picture EFL clubs almost unanimously wanting Big Picture and warning of dire consequences for clubs in EFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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