v Forest (H) - Matchday Thread

[BucksRam]

2 hours ago, IlsonDerby said:

Forest are not a better team than us. They are a more effective team than us. I think it’s good to separate the two. I’d take our position over theirs when we get to watch the football and the young players we have since Boxing Day. I think we’ll both end up in the championship next season and they’ll be disappointed and we’ll be excited. 

Ok fair comment, I can see the destination, hopefully though you got my point.  Agree re both being in the Championship next season and also that it could be very exciting for us.  

[Srg]

2 hours ago, Duracell said:

I don't think it was anti- or pro- anything, they just sometimes get an idea stuck in their head and run with it and forget to talk about anything else.

I appreciate having Mick McCarthy's knowledge but it would have been better to have someone who plays the game differently to counter him. MM spent the entire game saying how he'd abandon our game and pump it long. We know you would Mick. But Cocu isn't going to go for that.

My favourite bit was when Rooney played a long free kick early on into the box and got it horribly wrong. MM slated it saying anyone could play that ball and Rooney should be on the edge of the box. 

I pointed out at the time that his first assist in a Derby shirt was from a free kick in the same position, and then we all know how the equaliser came about... a free kick Rooney took from the same position. 

[Tyler Durden]

I've just watched the Forest goal again, Hamer goes down with the speed and grace of a Redwood being felled. 

[RoyMac5]

40 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

I've just watched the Forest goal again, Hamer goes down with the speed and grace of a Redwood being felled. 

He pushed a similar one around the post towards to end of the game. I think he was partially unsighted and also I think commo said it too a slight deflection.

[LeedsCityRam]

3 hours ago, Duracell said:

I'm starting to get a little concerned that Rooney is taking a little too much responsibility. It seems to be in his nature. Rooney was obviously great for England, but I never enjoyed watching him play - it always felt like he was playing with the weight of expectation on his shoulders and did too much in an attempt to carry the team around him (this was the era when Jay Bothroyd and Bobby Zamora got caps).

There were shades of that from Rooney yesterday. 

Interesting point.

Obviously he's been brought in as the talisman, it would be perverse given his reputation not to be. That said, I feel the route to success is to build a team that contributes all over the pitch, attacks as a unit & takes responsibility when needed. That's not to say people were shirking yesterday but I also got the sense with our young side that they were looking to Rooney for a spark - giving him the ball & sitting back a little instead of trying to find space (easier said than done yesterday I accept)

My main criticism of him were the floated balls out to the wings - yes, they look impressive but they're often very telegraphed and once the recipient has had time to bring the ball under control, an opposing defence is usually reset. Quicker passing with more movement was the way to drag Forest around yesterday, not slow stuff played in front of them - I don't believe that is Rooney's forte & as he gets older, I wonder if he will start slowing down the general tempo of our play. 

[brady1993]

4 hours ago, Duracell said:

I'm not normally one to criticise commentators but I thought Sky were terrible yesterday. We weren't great yesterday, but after our poor start, we weren't terrible either. There was a number of fair comments from McCarthy about our slow passing in the first quarter of the game but he failed to acknowledge when it did improve.

The BBC report reads very differently - a tight, if slightly dull, local Derby which Forest could have buried but failed to.

We were patient against a very well-organised team and I feel like some fans are forgetting the chances we created ourselves. A number of times their defence snuffed out chances that we would have scored against pretty much anyone else. I think we were good value for the point.

On Forest - they really remind me of us under Rowett. I can see them going up with Lamouchi. I'm glad we don't have a manager like that - it's horrid to watch, and that style has a limited shelf-life. We're going somewhere different and better under Cocu.

I felt with McCarthy it was a big case of him being opposed stylistically to how we were set up, he made some fair criticism but at times there was definitely an element of him putting forward how he thinks football should be played.

I feel like that BBC report feels a relatively accurate summary.  I was somewhat surprised to see how many reports on here allude to us being "completely outplayed" or "dominated" by forest, when really they were better than us for the first 15 minutes, grabbed a goal and then sat on the counter for the rest of the game. Not really creating much more until we started to open up more and more in the second half. On balance it would be have been a deserved win but any insinuation as to them essentially battering us is a gross exaggeration.

If they go up and I could definitely see it happening, I think they will likely struggle. Teams who play like Forest frequently get found out in the premiership because those narrow victories they get championship become draws and losses against teams with more individual quality. You just can't concede the amount of possession they do and get away with it frequently in the premiership.

[brady1993]

14 minutes ago, LeedsCityRam said:

Interesting point.

Obviously he's been brought in as the talisman, it would be perverse given his reputation not to be. That said, I feel the route to success is to build a team that contributes all over the pitch, attacks as a unit & takes responsibility when needed. That's not to say people were shirking yesterday but I also got the sense with our young side that they were looking to Rooney for a spark - giving him the ball & sitting back a little instead of trying to find space (easier said than done yesterday I accept)

My main criticism of him were the floated balls out to the wings - yes, they look impressive but they're often very telegraphed and once the recipient has had time to bring the ball under control, an opposing defence is usually reset. Quicker passing with more movement was the way to drag Forest around yesterday, not slow stuff played in front of them - I don't believe that is Rooney's forte & as he gets older, I wonder if he will start slowing down the general tempo of our play. 

It's a fair point but yesterday everybody seemed to be a bit laboured in possession. Every pass seemed like it was 5% slower both in making it and the pass itself from nearly every Derby player.  So I wouldn't single Rooney out for that just yet.

[angieram]

6 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

I felt with McCarthy it was a big case of him being opposed stylistically to how we were set up, he made some fair criticism but at times there was definitely an element of him putting forward how he thinks football should be played.

I feel like that BBC report feels a relatively accurate summary.  I was somewhat surprised to see how many reports on here allude to us being "completely outplayed" or "dominated" by forest, when really they were better than us for the first 15 minutes, grabbed a goal and then sat on the counter for the rest of the game. Not really creating much more until we started to open up more and more in the second half. On balance it would be have been a deserved win but any insinuation as to them essentially battering us is a gross exaggeration.

If they go up and I could definitely see it happening, I think they will likely struggle. Teams who play like Forest frequently get found out in the premiership because those narrow victories they get championship become draws and losses against teams with more individual quality. You just can't concede the amount of possession they do and get away with it frequently in the premiership.

It's because they were all listening to Sky. That's what they were saying all game.

[Carnero]

1 hour ago, Tyler Durden said:

I've just watched the Forest goal again, Hamer goes down with the speed and grace of a Redwood being felled. 

... and their keeper Samba gets in a right mess for our late goal thankfully.

Championship keepers are all generally average, funnily enough.

[Woodley Ram]

Forrest are not a Great side or better than us, they did however get their tactics spot on. They analysed how we played and cut off our midfield by marking Rooney and bird. They tried to cut off the full backs bombing forward and they put pressure on the centre backs when they have possession. Getting an early goal really helped their cause.  We looked a bit stunned at the start but then played our way into things . Forest play well as a team. 
 

if we play them in the playoffs we will beat them, Saturday was an indication of how teams will try to restrict us, we now have experience of how to deal with it 

[Srg]

17 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Forrest are not a Great side or better than us, they did however get their tactics spot on. They analysed how we played and cut off our midfield by marking Rooney and bird. They tried to cut off the full backs bombing forward and they put pressure on the centre backs when they have possession. Getting an early goal really helped their cause.  We looked a bit stunned at the start but then played our way into things . Forest play well as a team. 
 

if we play them in the playoffs we will beat them, Saturday was an indication of how teams will try to restrict us, we now have experience of how to deal with it 

Not sure I agree with that. They are a good team, just not in the free flowing, nice to watch football kind of way. They probably did analyse how we play, but that performance from them is the same as how they play every single week. They showed no surprises, and their strength, by and large, outplayed our strength. 

[Will Hughes Hair]

I think that between @DavesaRamand @LeedsCityRam they've got it bang on.

I believe Cocu tried to second guess Forest's game plan in dropping off when they had possession to draw them out.  I think the limited time between games likely hindered our capability to prepare to that game plan.  I'd also suggest an instruction not to over commit and leave us vulnerable to the counter left us with a no man's land performance in the first quarter.

in such a scenario and with such a young team it was unsurprising the team looked to Rooney for answers or that he tried to shoulder the burden.

What I'm hoping will have happened is that the team grows and learns from this, individually and collectively.  They and we all have a huge part to play over the next few weeks.

Thinking about that made me reflect on what a great example Morgan Whittaker was to the team and to us fans.  Chasing a lost cause to the very end, never giving up.

It's amazing what you can achieve when you believe.

[Tyler Durden]

1 hour ago, Woodley Ram said:

Forrest are not a Great side or better than us, they did however get their tactics spot on. They analysed how we played and cut off our midfield by marking Rooney and bird. They tried to cut off the full backs bombing forward and they put pressure on the centre backs when they have possession. Getting an early goal really helped their cause.  We looked a bit stunned at the start but then played our way into things . Forest play well as a team. 
 

if we play them in the playoffs we will beat them, Saturday was an indication of how teams will try to restrict us, we now have experience of how to deal with it 

Don't agree with that, you tend to undermine your own argument by starting postulating that Forest aren't better than us than further on you then say Forest play well as a team. When the final analysis comes at the end of the season Forest will have more points than us ergo are a better side. I don't think yesterday's performance with Forest neutralising us was a one off either, they've been doing that all season.

[DarkFruitsRam7]

Anyone who says Forest are crap is a little foolish in my opinion.

Over the course of 41 games, they’ve been the 5th best team in the league. They clearly aren’t crap.

[Dimmu]

1 hour ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

Anyone who says Forest are crap is a little foolish in my opinion.

Over the course of 41 games, they’ve been the 5th best team in the league. They clearly aren’t crap.

Yep. Too biased not to spot the difference between ugly and crap.

[Sparkle]

2 hours ago, Carnero said:

... and their keeper Samba gets in a right mess for our late goal thankfully.

Championship keepers are all generally average, funnily enough.

I must admit this season in particular I keep seeing poor goalkeeping more than I normally do and I don’t just mean us 

[Woodley Ram]

1 hour ago, Srg said:

Not sure I agree with that. They are a good team, just not in the free flowing, nice to watch football kind of way. They probably did analyse how we play, but that performance from them is the same as how they play every single week. They showed no surprises, and their strength, by and large, outplayed our strength. 

Didn’t say they were a bad team, they are a good team just not a great team 

[Rammy03]

45 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Don't agree with that, you tend to undermine your own argument by starting postulating that Forest aren't better than us than further on you then say Forest play well as a team.

They play differently to us, simple as that. We are a better footballing side but they are more organised.

[Woodley Ram]

48 minutes ago, Tyler Durden said:

Don't agree with that, you tend to undermine your own argument by starting postulating that Forest aren't better than us than further on you then say Forest play well as a team. When the final analysis comes at the end of the season Forest will have more points than us ergo are a better side. I don't think yesterday's performance with Forest neutralising us was a one off either, they've been doing that all season.

Try reading it again, and stop postulating yourself. I agree that forest will get more points and they were better in the first half of the season but not in the second half, therefore not now, still I think they are a decent team with good tactics and play well as a team, and not dependant on one or two players. 

you should not put conclusions to arguments which are not there 

[Tyler Durden]

27 minutes ago, Woodley Ram said:

Try reading it again, and stop postulating yourself. I agree that forest will get more points and they were better in the first half of the season but not in the second half, therefore not now, still I think they are a decent team with good tactics and play well as a team, and not dependant on one or two players. 

you should not put conclusions to arguments which are not there 

So they are a better side then us then