Most and least improved...

[ScamRam]

Improved, has to be Max Bird, seems to have what it takes to be a good player, like hundreds up and down the country, but now being coached by a midfielder who played for 6 years at Barcelona in the same position, and is turning into a great player. So definately improved coz of Cocu.

Josefzoon, done well at Brentford, Lampard thought he had potential but there is history between Cocu and Zoon at PSV, even though they are countrymen, and it seems like Cocu doesnt rate him, so has regressed. Wonder why?

I 

[Comrade 86]

5 minutes ago, europia said:

Really disappointed that Marriott seems to have regressed this season. Always thought he was the natural goal grabber that we haven't had in years. For whatever reason, that seems not to be the case. 

I can't work it out. We don't set up to suit him but that doesn't explain why he's all banjo and a cow's arse when he does get a chance. He could be way better than your average Championship striker but he just comes across like he's not fussed. He works hard enough on the pitch so I'm left thinking it's what he does (or doesn't do) off the pitch that's hampered his progress.

Really fear he'll waste his talent and perhaps I'm being too harsh, but I don't sense he's prepared to work hard enough to adapt his game. Such a shame.

[jono]

50 minutes ago, 86 Schmokes & a Pancake said:

If there was a fight I'd stand back and laugh as Waggy cheerfully dismantled them all the while with that big soppy grin on his face. Once heard a farmer use a phrase to describe another farmer he knew who was widely respected as a proper hard man if you were daft enough to start on him. He said he was the the type of man who could 'run down a hill with a cow under each arm' ? That's Waggy.

? .. and while I am on my Waggy man love thing .. I really like the way he has made himself Rooney’s lieutenant.. he isn’t a kid like Max and Jason who are in a sense protégées .. he’s accepted a role as Wazzas bag man .. running interference at free kicks and all sorts. There isn’t an ounce of arrogance about him. He’s a team player and happy to be part of it, no ego. Maybe that doesn’t make him a superstar but all teams need players like that 

[jono]

1 hour ago, ScamRam said:

Improved, has to be Max Bird, seems to have what it takes to be a good player, like hundreds up and down the country, but now being coached by a midfielder who played for 6 years at Barcelona in the same position, and is turning into a great player. So definately improved coz of Cocu.

Josefzoon, done well at Brentford, Lampard thought he had potential but there is history between Cocu and Zoon at PSV, even though they are countrymen, and it seems like Cocu doesnt rate him, so has regressed. Wonder why?

I 

Yes ! Agree ... If anything gets me, even more than even Butterfield , it’s FloJo .. I know there is a player there somewhere, he’s got touch and pace ! A demon wide player like him could and should be so good for our armoury but time and again it doesn’t happen. I think Cocu has given him a few goes, as did Frank, but he’s either never taken the chance or had the luck of the bounce. Frustrating  beyond measure. 

[Ambitious]

I think the majority have improved. We're only 5 points off where we was last season without our four best players: Wilson, Mount, Keogh & Tomori. It's meant players have had to step up and luckily we've shown outstanding progression throughout the season - the calling card of a team going places. Marriott has been the biggest disappointment for most fans, I feel. Martin gradually getting back to his absolute best has been a huge positive. Wisdom, too, was almost a forgotten man under Lampard who bombed him out a few times. Today, he led the team out. He's cemented his place in the starting XI for the time being at CB. It suits him. 

[swanny]

Marriott is a massive shame for me. Really exciting when playing in a side that suits him on he's in form. Exciting like Bobbie Davison or Dean  Saunders. Timing all wrong though now, and the way we play doesnt suit him. Needs a new club sadly

[May Contain Nuts]

How is it every other game we seem to be talking about Waghorn missing one on ones after making a good run and  being played in behind the opposition defence, but in the next breath people are saying we don't play to Marriott's strengths and/or create the sort of chances he needs? Those are exactly the sort of chances he should be getting.

I'd proffer that perhaps the problem is that Marriott isn't making the correct runs often enough, or with enough intelligence, for him to get the same chances others seem capable of?

To argue against my own point...

The only excuse I'd make for this / reason I can see for this is Waghorn's starting position being different when he's on the right, and that Marriott is on the pitch more in the second half of matches where the game is a little more stretched, so we have less control of the ball and fewer opportunities to play those through-balls.

[ramsbottom]

14 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I think the majority have improved. We're only 5 points off where we was last season without our four best players: Wilson, Mount, Keogh & Tomori. It's meant players have had to step up and luckily we've shown outstanding progression throughout the season - the calling card of a team going places. Marriott has been the biggest disappointment for most fans, I feel. Martin gradually getting back to his absolute best has been a huge positive. Wisdom, too, was almost a forgotten man under Lampard who bombed him out a few times. Today, he led the team out. He's cemented his place in the starting XI for the time being at CB. It suits him. 

Don't forget Carson as well.  Although it wasn't a great season by his standards, we was still very solid up until the last couple of months of the season.

The difference between the Max Bird playing now, compared to the callow youth who stepped out at Villa Park last season, , and the absolute baller playing now is night & day.

Other players who've really improved as the season has gone on are Holmes, Clark, Martin, Wisdom and particularly Lawrence.

Marriott & Zoon are the most obvious candidates for those that have regressed.  Jack is a talent but, bar a purple patch after the Man U cup game last season, just doesn't fit our system.  As for Zoon, I reckon it''s a confidence problem, and another case of club & player just not being the right fit for one another.

I guess Davies isn't the player he was under Rowett, but he's come back from a horrific injury and is being asked to play a way that doesn't suit him.

[Dethorn]

Best Bird

Worst Zoon

Notable Mentions Best : Knight Sibley Wisdom 

Notable mentions Worst - Marriott ?  Keogh Bennett ? Malone Davies

Also worthy of note that Rooney hasn't improved much

Plus I do not think Martin has improved he has always had it in him but he is on a rich vein of form as is Tom Lawrence.

[YorkshireRam]

2 hours ago, Dethorn said:

Best Bird

Worst Zoon

Notable Mentions Best : Knight Sibley Wisdom 

Notable mentions Worst - Marriott ?  Keogh Bennett ? Malone Davies

Also worthy of note that Rooney hasn't improved much

Plus I do not think Martin has improved he has always had it in him but he is on a rich vein of form as is Tom Lawrence.

This is an odd comment. It's not like Rooney is a fresh 18 year old ripe for improvement... Were you expecting England's record goalscorer to improve beyond the peak of his elite career? He's 34 and his capacity is player-coach which shows he's not even a regular member of the squad, he wasn't just brought in for performance so his level of improvement is pretty immaterial.

However, he's playing a far deeper role than he's played before in his career, to go from a prolific striker to a classy holding midfielder is beyond the remit of most player's abilities and I'd argue that he has 'become better' as a player from that transformation (the definition of 'improve').

[B4ev6is]

8 hours ago, Dethorn said:

Best Bird

Worst Zoon

Notable Mentions Best : Knight Sibley Wisdom 

Notable mentions Worst - Marriott ?  Keogh Bennett ? Malone Davies

Also worthy of note that Rooney hasn't improved much

Plus I do not think Martin has improved he has always had it in him but he is on a rich vein of form as is Tom Lawrence.

What

It has took martin a while to get back very best and roony has improved the team I think need spec savers mate.

[Dethorn]

15 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

This is an odd comment. It's not like Rooney is a fresh 18 year old ripe for improvement... Were you expecting England's record goalscorer to improve beyond the peak of his elite career? He's 34 and his capacity is player-coach which shows he's not even a regular member of the squad, he wasn't just brought in for performance so his level of improvement is pretty immaterial.

However, he's playing a far deeper role than he's played before in his career, to go from a prolific striker to a classy holding midfielder is beyond the remit of most player's abilities and I'd argue that he has 'become better' as a player from that transformation (the definition of 'improve').

Got ya

I was playing on the question set in the thread - He hasn't improved, was I expecting him "to improve beyond the peak of his elite career"  no I wasn't.

It wasn't a criticism

It was worthy of note given the question.

I suppose the point I was trying to make was that - the wording of the question kind of excludes Rooney.

[Dethorn]

9 hours ago, B4ev6is said:

What

It has took martin a while to get back very best and roony has improved the team I think need spec savers mate.

Again mate read the question

Who is the most improved, I think the question is biased against people who were already good.

I have always been one of the biggest Martin fans, therefore I do not think he has improved this season I just think he is working with the right manager and colleagues in the right system for the first time in about 5 seasons.

Likewise Rooney - there was/is little room for improvement

[irobinson]

Best. - Max Bird

Worst - Zoon and Marriott - both disappointing - and will probably leave at the end of the season

[Premier ram]

Most , Lawrence, Holmes, Wisdom

Least , Marriott, Davies

[YorkshireRam]

Improved: Wisdom, Lawrence, Martin, Holmes, Lowe & Bird

Plateau'd: Forsyth, Waghorn, Evans, Roos, Malone

Regressed: Bogle, Marriott, Davies (age) & Josefzoon

[YorkshireRam]

9 hours ago, Dethorn said:

Got ya

I was playing on the question set in the thread - He hasn't improved, was I expecting him "to improve beyond the peak of his elite career"  no I wasn't.

It wasn't a criticism

It was worthy of note given the question.

I suppose the point I was trying to make was that - the wording of the question kind of excludes Rooney.

I see what you're saying but he's come in and performed at a top level from the get-go in a new position, hard to improve when you're playing to the best of your ability so i'd argue Rooney is sort of invalidated from this type of question,. 

[Dethorn]

15 hours ago, YorkshireRam said:

I see what you're saying but he's come in and performed at a top level from the get-go in a new position, hard to improve when you're playing to the best of your ability so i'd argue Rooney is sort of invalidated from this type of question,. 

Great - I think we agree then ?

[Srg]

On 09/03/2020 at 13:53, Coconut said:

How is it every other game we seem to be talking about Waghorn missing one on ones after making a good run and  being played in behind the opposition defence, but in the next breath people are saying we don't play to Marriott's strengths and/or create the sort of chances he needs? Those are exactly the sort of chances he should be getting.

I'd proffer that perhaps the problem is that Marriott isn't making the correct runs often enough, or with enough intelligence, for him to get the same chances others seem capable of?

To argue against my own point...

The only excuse I'd make for this / reason I can see for this is Waghorn's starting position being different when he's on the right, and that Marriott is on the pitch more in the second half of matches where the game is a little more stretched, so we have less control of the ball and fewer opportunities to play those through-balls.

Think you sort of answered your own theory. Waghorn plays wide right, Marriott doesn't.

Marriott is certainly my pick for regressing the most. He's been essentially useless all year.

[Floppy Sausage]

Most improved, I would say Bird, Holmes and Wisdom stand out. Although I am not as crazy about Holmes as everyone else seems to be.

Players who have gone backwards or not performed as expected, Marriott, Josefzoon, Roos. Although the latter two, I never expected much from anyway.