Gone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Just now, BIllyD said: dare I say it, for example Australia ? Oh please don’t ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIllyD Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Oh please don’t ?? I really didn't want to, but needs must ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norman Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 50 minutes ago, Eddie said: The improvement came between May and August - no 'R' in the month, which also applies to folklore which stated that it wasn't advisable to eat oysters during those months. The inevitable conclusion I must arrive at from the above undeniable facts, therefore, is that eating oysters causes Covid-19. They're high in Vitamin D which is known to help battle the virus. Sorry to pop your brilliant theory, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: No point really discussing. Everything that you disagree with is right wing???? or fringe scientists. You obviously think that the right advice has been given at all stages of the pandemic. Not sure that this tallies with the worldwide death tallies. You should read this... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immunity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 31 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Any other variables happen between May and August you can think of ? Maybe try and compare to November to February see if you can think of anything .........I’m scratching my head to be honest ? If you believe the weather is the key reason for the drop in deaths, why did you continually downplay the threat of a winter 2nd wave and mock predictions that deaths could reach the same level as the Spring? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, G STAR RAM said: Or countries that have not locked down have the same death rates as countries that have locked down? You forgot to mention all those scientists who advised against the lockdowns in the UK. You think there are loads of them, should be easy to find peer reviewed and evidence based resesearch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 11 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: If you believe the weather is the key reason for the drop in deaths, why did you continually downplay the threat of a winter 2nd wave and mock predictions that deaths could reach the same level as the Spring? I suggested weather/ temperature is a significant variable amongst several or numerous different variables, and I happen to agree with the poster of the topic that lockdowns are irrelevant and make zero difference and actually cause more harm than good. I know you don’t believe or agree with this narrative so there’s not much point us playing quotation tennis again over this as I won’t budge on my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 36 minutes ago, BIllyD said: You mean countries that relaxed their lockdowns and then the number of cases increased so they had to introduce them again. Sweden have also brought in laws to introduce lockdown measure I believe ? What about countries that have also gone full lockdown on us, dare I say it, for example Australia ? Oh sure if we had locked down in January we probably wouldnt be having this conversation. I'm viewing it from the point that infections got out of hand and we were passed the point of no return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 8 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: You forgot to mention all those scientists who advised against the lockdowns in the UK. You think there are loads of them, should be easy to find peer reviewed and evidence based resesearch. Won't need to because once you provide the evidence of the 'weight of the scientific community' that you keep telling is about, then obviously there will only be a very small minority of the scientific community left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 19 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said: You should read this... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/oct/18/covid-herd-immunity-funding-bad-science-anti-lockdown Left wing blah blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, BIllyD said: You mean countries that relaxed their lockdowns and then the number of cases increased so they had to introduce them again. Sweden have also brought in laws to introduce lockdown measure I believe ? What about countries that have also gone full lockdown on us, dare I say it, for example Australia ? The key with lockdowns is that they need to be short, and be started with clear exit strategies. When the plan is just 'make the numbers look better, then open', you are indeed kicking the can down the road. That's not the lockdown's fault though, that's just a pathetic, weak, strategy, going against the best practice shown by other countries. That's always going to be the problem when the donors are running your government. They don't like lockdowns, as they're bad for business, and people dying doesn't impact them, as long as they're not the one that ends up in the pine box. Short term pain for long term gain, as done in Australia, New Zealand, etc, is great for the population, in terms of both lives and livelihoods, but it's still loses for businesses that could have just plowed through and just replaced the dead. 2 hours ago, TexasRam said: I suggested weather/ temperature is a significant variable amongst several or numerous different variables, and I happen to agree with the poster of the topic that lockdowns are irrelevant and make zero difference and actually cause more harm than good. I know you don’t believe or agree with this narrative so there’s not much point us playing quotation tennis again over this as I won’t budge on my opinion. It has an impact, but it's no coincidence that further lockdowns have seen further dropoff in cases around the World, despite the weather. The bigger point here too is that as we know that lockdowns work, if you feel that weather was always a key driver, than it makes the fact that Europe didn't act to drive cases to zero and lockdown borders seem even more braindead. If weather is seen as such a major driver, and the lockdowns along with it allowed such a dropoff earlier in the year, then that was the time to get things right, with a view to the winter where things would be harder to control. You can't have out of control spread if the cases are driven to zero, which is the lesson we've learned elsewhere. Don't just try and palm it off with 'different climates' either, New Zealand isn't all that dissimilar to the UK overall, and they wrested control in their winter. The UK could have done it in their summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gone Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 28 minutes ago, Albert said: The key with lockdowns is that they need to be short, and be started with clear exit strategies. When the plan is just 'make the numbers look better, then open', you are indeed kicking the can down the road. That's not the lockdown's fault though, that's just a pathetic, weak, strategy, going against the best practice shown by other countries. That's always going to be the problem when the donors are running your government. They don't like lockdowns, as they're bad for business, and people dying doesn't impact them, as long as they're not the one that ends up in the pine box. Short term pain for long term gain, as done in Australia, New Zealand, etc, is great for the population, in terms of both lives and livelihoods, but it's still loses for businesses that could have just plowed through and just replaced the dead. It has an impact, but it's no coincidence that further lockdowns have seen further dropoff in cases around the World, despite the weather. The bigger point here too is that as we know that lockdowns work, if you feel that weather was always a key driver, than it makes the fact that Europe didn't act to drive cases to zero and lockdown borders seem even more braindead. If weather is seen as such a major driver, and the lockdowns along with it allowed such a dropoff earlier in the year, then that was the time to get things right, with a view to the winter where things would be harder to control. You can't have out of control spread if the cases are driven to zero, which is the lesson we've learned elsewhere. Don't just try and palm it off with 'different climates' either, New Zealand isn't all that dissimilar to the UK overall, and they wrested control in their winter. The UK could have done it in their summer. Temperature and seasonal difference is a significant variable, anyhow wasn’t asking you or your borefest response cobber ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 12 minutes ago, TexasRam said: Temperature and seasonal difference is a significant variable, anyhow wasn’t asking you or your borefest response cobber ????? It's a variable, but countries with similar climates actually managed to control the virus at the height of their winter. Again, as noted, if you think that weather is such a key variable, then it would seem all these calls to reopen in the summer are even sillier than first thought. You've been arguing this since that time too, when really, if you thought that way, the best response would have been using the summer to safeguard for the winter. Imagine how silly it would be to spend all summer going 'yeah, we only have food because it's summer', then not actually storing any for winter. You're basically arguing 'yeah, it's fine, of course we were always going to starve in winter'. Also, it's flattering that the only real retort you have is saying 'you're boring'. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Durden Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Is the lockdown over yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxjam Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 It seems that covid was being spread around the country much earlier than we thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheeponacid Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Apologies @Albertbut I’m going to go slightly off topic here....you mention European countries being brain dead for not acting appropriately when dealing with the virus, & I totally agree with you....but don’t Australians see their attitude towards the environment & biodiversity as being just as brain dead? When do you think that Australia is going to give its environmental record the same urgency that it has Covid-19? Instead of being a dirty nation that continually shirks its responsibilities to help protect Mother Earth. I do wonder if your as ashamed of your countries attitude towards climate change & biodiversity losses, as you are proud of its handling of the pandemic, Albert? Australia’s CCPI scores, its OECD reports around climate change & biodiversity losses are abhorrent, you really do look like a nation were the majority of people couldn’t give a XXXX about environmental issues & biodiversity...even increases in bush fires, fires contributed to by climate change , struggle to awaken Australia up to its environmental responsibilities with any real sense of urgency. Your now seen to be that bad, that you weren’t even deemed to be worth giving a speaking slot to at the 2020 climate get together, which I think kind of says it all. Still I suppose could Mother Earth expect anything better from a country that chooses to elect Scott “here’s a lump of coal” Morrison as its leader?...& whats chucking a billion animals on the barbie compared to a cracking lockdown? Doesn’t really matter that some of these species may never recover, does it? Yes the UK & much of Europe have ducked up with their handling of the pandemic, whilst Australia has done a brilliant job. But surely your time would be far better spent lecturing your fellow Australians on sorting out your countries abysmal attitude towards the planet, instead of lecturing Rams fans about covid...it’s alright the Sydney Herald owning up to your nations abysmal environmental attitude, saying Australia needs to up its game, & that there’s a real will to change, it’s actually doing it that matters.... I’ve had enough of Australia’s poor environmental attitude, & its disregard for biodiversity, it’s been going on for years...judging by the snub at the latest climate get together, so have most other countries too. Don’t get me wrong Albert I really get ducked off with many European Countries attitudes towards upping their environmental game quickly enough. I only have to look at the EU CAP to see what bamfords we have, but they look positively sparkling green when compared to Australia Anyway apologies for the post veering off topic, just venting my frustration at Australia’s abysmal environmental efforts. Our world & your biodiversity deserves much better, so ffs sort yourselves out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 26 minutes ago, sheeponacid said: Apologies @Albertbut I’m going to go slightly off topic here....you mention European countries being brain dead for not acting appropriately when dealing with the virus, & I totally agree with you....but don’t Australians see their attitude towards the environment & biodiversity as being just as brain dead? When do you think that Australia is going to give its environmental record the same urgency that it has Covid-19? Instead of being a dirty nation that continually shirks its responsibilities to help protect Mother Earth. I do wonder if your as ashamed of your countries attitude towards climate change & biodiversity losses, as you are proud of its handling of the pandemic, Albert? Australia’s CCPI scores, its OECD reports around climate change & biodiversity losses are abhorrent, you really do look like a nation were the majority of people couldn’t give a XXXX about environmental issues & biodiversity...even increases in bush fires, fires contributed to by climate change , struggle to awaken Australia up to its environmental responsibilities with any real sense of urgency. Your now seen to be that bad, that you weren’t even deemed to be worth giving a speaking slot to at the 2020 climate get together, which I think kind of says it all. Still I suppose could Mother Earth expect anything better from a country that chooses to elect Scott “here’s a lump of coal” Morrison as its leader?...& whats chucking a billion animals on the barbie compared to a cracking lockdown? Doesn’t really matter that some of these species may never recover, does it? Yes the UK & much of Europe have ducked up with their handling of the pandemic, whilst Australia has done a brilliant job. But surely your time would be far better spent lecturing your fellow Australians on sorting out your countries abysmal attitude towards the planet, instead of lecturing Rams fans about covid...it’s alright the Sydney Herald owning up to your nations abysmal environmental attitude, saying Australia needs to up its game, & that there’s a real will to change, it’s actually doing it that matters.... I’ve had enough of Australia’s poor environmental attitude, & its disregard for biodiversity, it’s been going on for years...judging by the snub at the latest climate get together, so have most other countries too. Don’t get me wrong Albert I really get ducked off with many European Countries attitudes towards upping their environmental game quickly enough. I only have to look at the EU CAP to see what bamfords we have, but they look positively sparkling green when compared to Australia Anyway apologies for the post veering off topic, just venting my frustration at Australia’s abysmal environmental efforts. Our world & your biodiversity deserves much better, so ffs sort yourselves out. I imagine @Albert will agree with you. Rather than claiming any sort of Aussie Exceptionalism, I think he has been pleasantly surprised that his country has got Covid so right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ariotofmyown Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 This website looks like a great tool to reduce the circular arguments on this website about Covid/Lockdowns etc. Here is the link and it's intro below... https://www.covidfaq.co "Anti-Virus: The Covid-19 FAQ What is Anti-Virus? The Covid-19 pandemic has brought with it an avalanche of misinformation. A number of myths have persisted that suggest Covid isn't particularly dangerous, or that governments shouldn't try to contain the virus with lockdowns and other distancing measures. We call the people who promulgate these myths even after they have been disproved "Covid Sceptics". This isn't to say that they're necessarily sceptical of the existence of the coronavirus - but they are often sceptical about its effects. Some have claimed that the number of infections is much lower than it really has been, or that health systems were under less strain than they really were, or that the fatality rate and number of deaths were lower than they have been in reality. Some have been sceptical that a population-wide policy response to this virus is needed. Some Covid Sceptics have tended to promote one or two of the common myths; some have promoted them all. "Sceptics" might be seen as a flattering term: scepticism is often a good thing. But as we detail below, many of the people featured here have made persistently inaccurate forecasts, repeated long-disproven claims, or engaged in faulty reasoning. Indeed, those we discuss have arguably not been sceptical enough about the claims of alternative "experts" who have underestimated the risks of Covid. The arguments made by Covid Sceptics are frequently misleading, misconceived, or based on misunderstandings of the evidence. We believe these mistaken arguments are often dangerous, since they might lead people—or entire countries—to take fewer precautions against this deadly virus. This website is dedicated to debunking common Covid Sceptic arguments, and highlighting the track record of some of the most influential and consistently-wrong Covid Sceptics. We mostly focus on UK-based people, since most of this site's creators are UK-based as well. We hope you'll link to our site whenever you see these common arguments appear." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 42 minutes ago, maxjam said: It seems that covid was being spread around the country much earlier than we thought It’s interesting as although you can never be certain my wife ,myself and my son ( daughter was living in Brisbane) really believe we had it in jan feb ,wife first ,then me ,then my son Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 52 minutes ago, sheeponacid said: Apologies @Albertbut I’m going to go slightly off topic here....you mention European countries being brain dead for not acting appropriately when dealing with the virus, & I totally agree with you....but don’t Australians see their attitude towards the environment & biodiversity as being just as brain dead? When do you think that Australia is going to give its environmental record the same urgency that it has Covid-19? Instead of being a dirty nation that continually shirks its responsibilities to help protect Mother Earth. I do wonder if your as ashamed of your countries attitude towards climate change & biodiversity losses, as you are proud of its handling of the pandemic, Albert? Australia’s CCPI scores, its OECD reports around climate change & biodiversity losses are abhorrent, you really do look like a nation were the majority of people couldn’t give a XXXX about environmental issues & biodiversity...even increases in bush fires, fires contributed to by climate change , struggle to awaken Australia up to its environmental responsibilities with any real sense of urgency. Your now seen to be that bad, that you weren’t even deemed to be worth giving a speaking slot to at the 2020 climate get together, which I think kind of says it all. Still I suppose could Mother Earth expect anything better from a country that chooses to elect Scott “here’s a lump of coal” Morrison as its leader?...& whats chucking a billion animals on the barbie compared to a cracking lockdown? Doesn’t really matter that some of these species may never recover, does it? Yes the UK & much of Europe have ducked up with their handling of the pandemic, whilst Australia has done a brilliant job. But surely your time would be far better spent lecturing your fellow Australians on sorting out your countries abysmal attitude towards the planet, instead of lecturing Rams fans about covid...it’s alright the Sydney Herald owning up to your nations abysmal environmental attitude, saying Australia needs to up its game, & that there’s a real will to change, it’s actually doing it that matters.... I’ve had enough of Australia’s poor environmental attitude, & its disregard for biodiversity, it’s been going on for years...judging by the snub at the latest climate get together, so have most other countries too. Don’t get me wrong Albert I really get ducked off with many European Countries attitudes towards upping their environmental game quickly enough. I only have to look at the EU CAP to see what bamfords we have, but they look positively sparkling green when compared to Australia Anyway apologies for the post veering off topic, just venting my frustration at Australia’s abysmal environmental efforts. Our world & your biodiversity deserves much better, so ffs sort yourselves out. I completely agree with you on Australia's abysmal efforts in terms of environment, and quite frankly, that's the tip of the iceberg of our issues. I think you've missed my point if you think my suggestion is that Australia is more competent than any country in Europe, when in many senses, I'd argue quite the opposite, which is why I am so critical of the response in the UK. Australia isn't special, Australian isn't well run, what we've done though is listen to the advice in this instance, largely driven by the states, and largely because of our close relationship with countries that dealt with SARS, MERS, etc. In effect, those previous instances showed us the need to act quickly in the past when such was ongoing. Equally, it's worth noting with Scott Morrison's government that it was actually the states that drove Australia down this path. Morrison's government pushed for a 'living with Covid' approach, but allowed each state to do things their own way. Western Australia set the standards, and South Australia followed suit, alongside Queensland. Victoria tried initially to open earlier, to calamitous effect, which led to them going for a full elimination strategy after their second wave. It was the pressure from these states going that way, as well as New Zealand's success, that really drove this all nationwide. Morrison, always one to claim credit for others work, has done an excellent job of reaping the benefits of the states efforts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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