Coronavirus

[Sith Happens]

7 minutes ago, ariotofmyown said:

Can't believe pretty much every government badly impacted by Covid are all doing this and their citizens are all falling for it. Thank god for the President of Brazil who won't be wasting money on this vaccine.

@goldstar I mean the opposite of this.

I actually didnt realise about Brazil. I just got as far as it might turn people into crocodiles....

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

How can i answer something that is just a theory? I cant decide for individual companies how they want to run their operations. I support being tested currently. No one has said you are going to need a vaccine, its all guesses and speculation. My gut feeling is it wont happen, but if it does i expect a negative test in its place will suffice.

To add, i dont think people should be penalised for not having the vaccine no. Just as i dont think they should ne ridiculed for wanting to have it which was the only point i was making in the first place..not to you of course.

Time will tell I guess.

It will be interesting to see if Governments, big tech and media etc give back the power and control that they have gained during the pandemic.  My guess is probably not much of it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2020/04/12/how-the-covid-19-crisis-is-threatening-freedom-and-democracy-across-the-globe/

[Archied]

3 hours ago, BIllyD said:

Thanks pal. Fingers crossed I'm well on my way to recovery, 24 months being stuck at home is boring but there are a lot of people in a worse situation than me so I consider myself lucky.

Have a good evening and wishing you well for the next year ????

I find your posts refreshing in terms although we perhaps disagree on points of this subject and you rightly question my posts as I do yours at times there’s a clear lack of selfishness to your view and empathy with others facing different challenges through this and it’s clear your posts are not just about winning an argument ?

[ariotofmyown]

3 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Maybe we'll revisit this in a year or so's time (assuming everyone's had their vaccine shot).

When the realisation of mounting cancer deaths, lost jobs, decimated businesses, cuts to public services and tax rises make you long for the days of austerity...

Fortunately, we can't revisit a parallel world, where we didn't bother with these stupid lockdowns and about 500k extra people were dead. The economy was still screwed as everyone was too scared to leave their homes and the cancer deaths were still mounting as all hospitals were full of people dying from Covid.

Maybe we'd have the infamous herd immunity then, which in this case actually means loads of people die and the survivors may have some immunity.

[Sith Happens]

2 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Time will tell I guess.

It will be interesting to see if Governments, big tech and media etc give back the power and control that they have gained during the pandemic.  My guess is probably not much of it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/evangerstmann/2020/04/12/how-the-covid-19-crisis-is-threatening-freedom-and-democracy-across-the-globe/

Yeah we will see. I suspect we will get our freedom back, but for it to be as it was will take sometime.

[Archied]

2 hours ago, Sith Happens said:

I dont see the issue with the flu jab being invited. I would imagine its down to the last few now anyway (as my mate who is 53 with no underlying conditions had his invite last week).

The plan was set out clearly earlier in the year that in order of priorities over 50's would be invited for the biggest annual flu vaccination program to date. But it was said that those at the bottom end of the list would likely not receive it until well into the winter.

The Covid vaccine is more about supply currently than resource, although hopefully this will change soon.

Its probably another damned if you do approach, you will have people in one corner saying is a waste of time, and others if they did decide not to complete the program who will complain that they were never offered the free flu jab when it was promised.

Its not new though, it was announced months ago that this was the plan. I think its going to be partly due to enhanced vaccinations, and partly due to social distancing measures that flu appears non existant currently. Of course if the government had abandoned the plan because flu wasnt apparant this season , then we got hit with a big wave of it...then you just get another lot of criticism.

Think for me getting numerous texts after hitting the decline option irks

[Sith Happens]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Think for me getting numerous texts after hitting the decline option irks

Thats your own fault for being the 65,537th person to decline though ?

[Archied]

1 hour ago, Sith Happens said:

Its not new to have to have a negative test to travel abroad, its been occuring for several months now.

I cant see that changing anytime soon.

If the vaccine allows people to travel in place of having a test i guess is yet to be seen, as its been pointed out already there is no hard evidence yet that it prevents transmission.

I expect to have the vaccine soon but when (if) i get to go away as planned in May i am prepared and expecting to have to take a test too.

Ill add that it was never my point to try and convince someone who is an anti-vaxxer to take the vaccine, it was simply have your opinion fair enough, choose to take it or not, but dont try and condemn, or persuade others who want to take it.

That fair in part , but do you extend that to pro vaxxers trying to convince, cajole and guilt trip those that don’t want to have it themselves? Personally I’m in no rush to have it but am aware that it’s pretty certain that at some point I will be forced to ,whether openly mandated or cleverly having life made unliveable if not 

[Archied]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

 

Ah sorry, you wanted a conspiracy theory answer - well lets go with money and power.

You can't give all your friends huge medical budgets (despite having no expertise in the field) if you ignore the pandemic.  Furthermore you can't ignore 100k deaths and expect to be voted into power again.

Unlike the covid death updates the 100k+ people dying of cancer or poverty etc won't be broadcast into peoples consciousness every day and whilst the rich will inevitably come through the pandemic with their livelihoods intact it will be the largely ignored and ridiculed working classes that will be footing the bill for decades to come.

It’s interesting that I reckon the middle class will be hit possibly the hardest through this , mind you the line between working class and middle class has become very blurred over the last twenty odd years , I honestly think we have a fourth catagory now of underclass

[Sith Happens]

3 minutes ago, Archied said:

That fair in part , but do you extend that to pro vaxxers trying to convince, cajole and guilt trip those that don’t want to have it themselves? Personally I’m in no rush to have it but am aware that it’s pretty certain that at some point I will be forced to ,whether openly mandated or cleverly having life made unliveable if not 

Well i have already said take it or not its your choice, im not trying to cajole or guilt trip anyone.

Would i react in the same way if someone posted something here that was 'pro vaccination' that was a reverse, if im honest probably not as it wouldnt wind me up in the same way, ill leave that to those who are anti vax, or at least anti this vaccination.

That might make me hypoctrical, but i think we all react in different ways to things we read depending on how we view matters.

[Archied]

1 hour ago, maxjam said:

That didn't answer my question though.

Whilst the vaccine may not prevent transmission if the elderly/vulnerable have been vaccinated why should everyone be forced to have the vaccine if not by law, by individual companies restricting access? 

If your Doctor says you're in a vulnerable group and recommends the vaccine, fair enough, but for the vast majority it should remain personal choice.

FWIW, I'm not personally against having the vaccine but I would like to 'wait a bit' to see whether there are any unforeseen complications.

There’s also a massive financial question here , who makes multi billions if the whole world has to be vaccinated rather than the real vulnerable ??‍♂️,,, as you say there probably far far more people that don’t actually need to be vaccinated if what we are being told about the vaccine is true , if the vulnerable are vaccinated can we then fairly safely aim for and reach herd immunity without the need for some to make multi billions and us all paying the cost for years to come??‍♂️

[Archied]

8 minutes ago, Sith Happens said:

Well i have already said take it or not its your choice, im not trying to cajole or guilt trip anyone.

Would i react in the same way if someone posted something here that was 'pro vaccination' that was a reverse, if im honest probably not as it wouldnt wind me up in the same way, ill leave that to those who are anti vax, or at least anti this vaccination.

That might make me hypoctrical, but i think we all react in different ways to things we read depending on how we view matters.

No I’m not targeting you but there are many that do use the tactics described and in my view they are just as wrong as any so called antivaxer who try to convince others that they’re personal view is right for everybody 

[GboroRam]

53 minutes ago, Archied said:

No I’m not targeting you but there are many that do use the tactics described and in my view they are just as wrong as any so called antivaxer who try to convince others that they’re personal view is right for everybody 

I'm all for a bit of healthy cynicism towards your politicians, but generally I trust the science. Science isn't always right, but it is fairly honest, circumspect and happy to be challenged by facts. It's tested against parameters that can be repeated, is compared to a control and honest results are given. Sometimes we later learn that the science was wrong - and science changes it and updates it with the latest data. 

By talking about antivaxer, you're effectively talking about anti-science. And that I don't understand. Either you agree with the science, which overwhelmingly says that vaccination is the most effective way of safeguarding the population - or you agree with something other than science. Which includes conspiracy theories, quacks, Youtube conmen, pseudoscience and Karen from Facebook, who won't put a vaccine in her blood because she doesn't know what's in it but happily buys 40 burgers for £2 from FarmFoods.

[Archied]

13 minutes ago, GboroRam said:

I'm all for a bit of healthy cynicism towards your politicians, but generally I trust the science. Science isn't always right, but it is fairly honest, circumspect and happy to be challenged by facts. It's tested against parameters that can be repeated, is compared to a control and honest results are given. Sometimes we later learn that the science was wrong - and science changes it and updates it with the latest data. 

By talking about antivaxer, you're effectively talking about anti-science. And that I don't understand. Either you agree with the science, which overwhelmingly says that vaccination is the most effective way of safeguarding the population - or you agree with something other than science. Which includes conspiracy theories, quacks, Youtube conmen, pseudoscience and Karen from Facebook, who won't put a vaccine in her blood because she doesn't know what's in it but happily buys 40 burgers for £2 from FarmFoods.

Nope , that’s exactly the I’m right and if you don’t agree it means your exactly what I say you are and then a load of made up offensive generalised nonsense about cheap burgers ( can you point me to her page so I can confirm she won’t take vaccine but will buy cheap burgers) tagged on the end  ??, ,,,, anti science ?????? I’m not even going to bother pointing out your silly manipulation of your view or nothing

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

2 hours ago, ariotofmyown said:

Can't believe pretty much every government badly impacted by Covid are all doing this and their citizens are all falling for it. Thank god for the President of Brazil who won't be wasting money on this vaccine.

@goldstar I mean the opposite of this.

He may feel differently when the rest of the world is hopefully on a successful vaccine plan over the the next twelve months and no- one will be going there on holiday and there closing borders to Brazilian nationals coming the other way.  Let's not forget all those Brazilians who'll fancy a trip to the next world cup but won't be able to travel .  His mind won't be far from turning- Lost revenue and lost votes tend to swing things.

[Tamworthram]

2 hours ago, maxjam said:

Maybe we'll revisit this in a year or so's time (assuming everyone's had their vaccine shot).

When the realisation of mounting cancer deaths, lost jobs, decimated businesses, cuts to public services and tax rises make you long for the days of austerity...

I don't think anyone is doubting that there are serious consequences of the decisions being made by governments around the world. The question is do you honestly believe that the governments that have implemented similar actions and controls as our own have all done so in order to fuel their ulterior motives such as money and power?

[Archied]

7 minutes ago, Gee SCREAMER !! said:

He may feel differently when the rest of the world is hopefully on a successful vaccine plan over the the next twelve months and no- one will be going there on holiday and there closing borders to Brazilian nationals coming the other way.  Let's not forget all those Brazilians who'll fancy a trip to the next world cup but won't be able to travel .  His mind won't be far from turning- Lost revenue and lost votes tend to swing things.

Yep all that should pull him into line 

[maxjam]

5 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I don't think anyone is doubting that there are serious consequences of the decisions being made by governments around the world. The question is do you honestly believe that the governments that have implemented similar actions and controls as our own have all done so in order to fuel their ulterior motives such as money and power?

No I don't think it was done deliberately, but I do think that the power and wealth Governments and Big Tech etc have gained throughout the pandemic is something that will not easily be handed back or redistributed once its over.

[Tamworthram]

6 minutes ago, maxjam said:

No I don't think it was done deliberately, but I do think that the power and wealth Governments and Big Tech etc have gained throughout the pandemic is something that will not easily be handed back or redistributed once its over.

I'm not sure how much wealth the governments have accumulated as a result of the pandemic. Rather than redistributing any said wealth isn't it more a case of taking more money off the general public through taxes in order to repay some of the national debts accrued supporting people and businesses during the crisis.

So, you don't necessarily believe there was any ulterior motives for the governments around the world now? 

[maxjam]

6 minutes ago, Tamworthram said:

I'm not sure how much wealth the governments have accumulated as a result of the pandemic. Rather than redistributing any said wealth isn't it more a case of taking more money off the general public through taxes in order to repay some of the national debts accrued supporting people and businesses during the crisis.

So, you don't necessarily believe there was any ulterior motives for the governments around the world now? 

The State has gained power, Big tech has gained wealth.

I don't believe I ever said Governments had ulterior motives - or at least I didn't intend to.  I do however believe the power and wealth gained are a 'happy consequence' of measures introduced to combat the pandemic - and unlikely to be given away once we're through the other side.