Coronavirus

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, rammieib said:

Out of interest - where did you numbers come from as they are very precise. I assume the university has provided them?

Yes, they are on the university website.

High numbers, indeed, and the really scary ones are those for students living in 'private accommodation'.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Norman said:

I do wish you would stop pushing these conspiracy theories that there are hardly any cases in the student population. 

It really doesn't help.

Maybe you're the reason why New Zealand and Australia are doing better than the UK. 

Those numbers came from the university website, you utterly misguided person.

That's a good one, mister 'It's not as bad as the flu' covid-denier. I'm pushing a 'conspiracy theory'. It's no wonder I keep getting banned from this site for letting people know exactly what my opinion is of them.

 

[Norman]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Those numbers came from the university website, you utterly misguided person.

That's a good one, mister 'It's not as bad as the flu' covid-denier. I'm pushing a 'conspiracy theory'. It's no wonder I keep getting banned from this site for letting people know exactly what my opinion is of them.

 

You keep getting banned because you don't read what people post. 

I'm not a covid-denier, or think flu is more deadly. 

Was just suggesting your opinion that you posted based on guesswork, is the sort that makes you get all angry if someone else had posted it. 

So misguided it upsets me. 

[G STAR RAM]

7 minutes ago, Albert said:

Both are infectious diseases that can lead to hospitalisation. The concern at this time is overloading the hospitals. 

Maybe merge the figures with Ebola then. I think most of us can see why they have chosen to merge with Flu.

As noted, there are risks of people catching anything in hospitals. It's not a large driver of new infections, however, and you have no actual data to suggest that this is a significant concern at this time. 

I think the figure I saw quoted in the media was 23% but that may be wrong so wont hang my hat on that. What does the number have to be to be classed as significant?

Yes, because the government here is competent, and the people are sane and have listened to advice readily without whinging. Ironically, the spirit of the blitz is most certainly not alive in the current UK, yet is elsewhere. That said, the government's messaging certainly hasn't helped things.

Can only speak for myself here but I'm getting bored of hearing how competent your country is. I dont see you as comparable in any way, shape or form and prefer to draw comparisons to countries like France and Spain.

I mean if Australia Australia that competent why are there 77 countries that have had less cases per million population than you?

Equally, what I've been posting is just data for the most part. If you have concerns about it, we can discuss that. You can't just say "but it's not in line with my opinion" and then just flat out reject what we know about this virus, and the data we have on harnd. 

I thought you'd not double down on this, truly bizarre choice of hill to die on. Anyhow, this is the text of what you posted, I'll bold your quote:

From the bit I can see, this could be 'to be information not held', or something to that effect. 

They have told you why they won't respond to the request, as it is not covered by the act for these purposes. It's not that they lack the statistical skill to do the analysis, it's that freedom of information pertains to documents that already exist, and they are under zero obligation to produce new documents in response to requests. It's not hard to understand, and it's been explained in the original piece you've quoted. 

Thank you for confirming that you have not read what it says.

 

[Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Norman said:

You keep getting banned because you don't read what people post. 

I'm not a covid-denier, or think flu is more deadly. 

Was just suggesting your opinion that you posted based on guesswork, is the sort that makes you get all angry if someone else had posted it. 

So misguided it upsets me. 

I pulled the data from the university website, which I clearly stated in the subsequent post - you know, the one you quoted and the one where you added the quite insulting disparaging remark that I was spreading a 'conspiracy theory'.

So Nottingham University must be in on the conspiracy.

 

 

[Stive Pesley]

It strikes me that a lot of the arguments here are a variation of the classic "Trolley Car Problem" ethical dilemma (Good Place fans will know it well)

Having to make a personal choice between 2 outcomes that will result in human deaths of some (unknown scale)

For example, lockdown to save people from dying of coronavirus vs lockdown potentially increasing suicides, missed cancer diagnoses etc

I post this just to give you all something else to think about for a few minutes of your day. There is no wrong/right answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

 

 

[maxjam]

Just now, SchtivePesley said:

It strikes me that a lot of the arguments here are a variation of the classic "Trolley Car Problem" ethical dilemma (Good Place fans will know it well)

Having to make a personal choice between 2 outcomes that will result in human deaths of some (unknown scale)

For example, lockdown to save people from dying of coronavirus vs lockdown potentially increasing suicides, missed cancer diagnoses etc

I post this just to give you all something else to think about for a few minutes of your day. There is no wrong/right answer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

 

 

Did that years ago for some kind of psychological study at work.  I pushed the fat guy on to the track.

Dunno what that said about me or the company I worked for at the time but within 6 months I'd been promoted twice ?

[BaaLocks]

25 minutes ago, Albert said:

Yes, because the government here is competent, and the people are sane and have listened to advice readily without whinging.

I am interested on what basis you can draw that conclusion? From my perspective (and I appreciate it is likely driven by my own echo bubble) I have not one grain of data that I can find to support a statement like that.

Also, by inference you are suggesting there are countries where people are not sane and have not listened to advice without whinging. Which ones?

[BaaLocks]

1 minute ago, maxjam said:

Did that years ago for some kind of psychological study at work.  I pushed the fat guy on to the track.

Dunno what that said about me or the company I worked for at the time but within 6 months I'd been promoted twice ?

Do you work for Weight Watchers?

[Norman]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

I pulled the data from the university website, which I clearly stated in the subsequent post - you know, the one you quoted and the one where you added the quite insulting disparaging remark that I was spreading a 'conspiracy theory'.

So Nottingham University must be in on the conspiracy.

 

 

"A couple of thousand students have caught it recently. There are over 2 million university students"

You then were pulled up on it and said it was guesswork. 

I then quoted you ironically. You know, the post where one university had as many cases as you were claiming in the whole student population. 

I'm happy you find the conspiracy remark insulting and disparaging. Because others have similar feelings. You just choose to ignore them.

[Spanish]

4 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Do you work for Weight Watchers?

they want the fat ones to live

[rammieib]

28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Yes, they are on the university website.

High numbers, indeed, and the really scary ones are those for students living in 'private accommodation'.

Scary - although...

1) Good for immunity longer term 

2) I think the daily cases will start falling quite significantly once they run out of students to test. 17,000 to 12,000 yesterday for instance.

3) I still fully believe this would have gone through a lot of students in Feb/March as well - but we had no testing capacity then.

If we really genuinely knew just how many cases we were having back at the beginning of the year, I think everyone would be looking at the cases now in a different way.

[G STAR RAM]

3 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I am interested on what basis you can draw that conclusion? From my perspective (and I appreciate it is likely driven by my own echo bubble) I have not one grain of data that I can find to support a statement like that.

Also, by inference you are suggesting there are countries where people are not sane and have not listened to advice without whinging. Which ones?

Exactly.

The poster has a absolutely no experience of how our first lockdown was observed. 

They will have seen a couple of the stories in the media about people breaching lockdown rules, and foolishly thought this gave a true representation of what was happening over here.

[Gone]

22 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can only speak for myself here but I'm getting bored of hearing how competent your country is

You’re not the only one 

[maxjam]

2 minutes ago, TexasRam said:

You’re not the only one 

Or the only 2 ?

[Andicis]

In danger of stepping into politics, but it's rather convenient a lot of the places that were locked down elected one political party, and other areas that haven't been locked down are constituencies of prominent members of the other party and have even higher rates of infection than those other places that were locked down.

[jimmyp]

1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

When people die from influenza it’s normally because they go on to develop a secondary condition, pneumonia is very common in this situation. On the death certificate you have underlying cause (death due to) you also have a list of all contributing causes that led to the underlying cause and further contributing factors such as pre existing conditions. So both pneumonia and influenza are on the death certificate but only one is normally the underlying cause. 

It’s the same with Covid 19. When people die with Covid-19 they have normally gone on to develop a secondary condition, pneumonia being very common. When the person dies they have pneumonia and Covid, we determine which is the underlying cause and what are the contributing causes that lead to death. 

All of the conditions contribute to the death, they are therefore reported together.

When they produce the figures you see on tv, we see a figure that shows people who have died with Covid-19 being the underlying cause (death due to) most would of had pneumonia but it was Covid that killed them. 

A higher figure is also available that also includes people who have died with Covid but it wasn’t the underlying cause.

For reporting deaths pneumonia, influenza, Covid go hand in hand but the important data is the underlying cause figure. That is why it is important to study all the data and not just one graph. 

 

 

[Albert]

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Maybe merge the figures with Ebola then. I think most of us can see why they have chosen to merge with Flu.

Is Ebola an issue in the UK at the moment? 

Again, it was merged for a plot, and you're losing your mind over it. The figures reported from the NHS, etc in daily hospitalisations are not. If you want the numbers of just Covid, look into those. 

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I think the figure I saw quoted in the media was 23% but that may be wrong so wont hang my hat on that. What does the number have to be to be classed as significant?

Source? 

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Can only speak for myself here but I'm getting bored of hearing how competent your country is. I dont see you as comparable in any way, shape or form and prefer to draw comparisons to countries like France and Spain.

So, because their responses have also been poor, it makes it okay for the UK? Denser countries have done far better than the UK, places like Taiwan, Vietnam, China, Korea, etc. 

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

I mean if Australia Australia that competent why are there 77 countries that have had less cases per million population than you?

Because we've not been that competent. Victoria seriously dropped the ball on multiple levels, and there's an ongoing royal commission into that. South Australia, Western Australia, Queensland, Tasmania and the territories have been virtually Covid free for a long time, while NSW has managed to keep things virtually under control. 

There's also the question of accuracy of the data for many of the countries that you'd find on those lists of course, as few countries have as strong a testing regime as Australia. 

Again though, Australia is far from having handled this pandemic the best, but at the same time, it's response has been adequate, and shown a sound way of getting to 'Covid normal' so to speak. I'd give the country as a whole a C+. 

30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Thank you for confirming that you have not read what it says.

So, you've conceded you're wrong on this point then. Again, I read it, and explained what it said to you. It seems you're confusing me understanding what it said with not reading it. 

[jimmyp]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

 

Merging Ebola with Covid would make no sense if it wasn’t a cause of death. 

Merging pneumonia with Covid makes lots of sense because it is a cause of death. 

[Albert]

30 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

I am interested on what basis you can draw that conclusion? From my perspective (and I appreciate it is likely driven by my own echo bubble) I have not one grain of data that I can find to support a statement like that.

That there have been clear strategies put in place to control the situation, which have achieved control, even dealing with significant unforeseen events that made such challenges. That's not to say all the governments within the country have done that well, but they have achieved a Covid normal of sorts for the majority of the country. 

30 minutes ago, BaaLocks said:

Also, by inference you are suggesting there are countries where people are not sane and have not listened to advice without whinging. Which ones?

Places like America come to mind, where somehow it has become a political issue and there have been protests against lockdowns for a longtime.