Coronavirus

[jimmyp]

7 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Read the article in The Daily Mail and you are misrepresenting it.

Read the actual data and not the daily mails representation. 

[Uptherams]

If masks are effective, explain flu deaths this year ?

[Bob The Badger]

I saw a report on TV last night that looked at the UK in terms of coronavirus and how badly it was doing.

It showed a map correlating to the US and the rest of Europe, it was depressing with the US and UK following similar paths.

But then I started thinking, it's blindingly obvious why things are out of control here.

You have Trump telling the 40% of the population willing to listen to him that there is nothing to fear and that 'you get it and then you just get better' (he literally said that this week) and actively discouraging all those around from wearing masks.

Then you have Governors like DeSantis here in Florida, fully opening bars before the state is remotely close to a safe level and others like the one whose name I forget now, claiming masks can make you sick.

So yeh, it's kinda obvious.

But you have none of that in England, so wtf is going on?

I'm being serious here. Trump simply doesn't care. Nothing matters to him other than reelection, literally nothing.

But The Tories recognize the gravity and clearly want to get a handle on things, but can't.

Even though I'm clearly a leftist pinko commie bedwetter, this isn't meant to be a political post per se, I'm just lost for a seasonable explanation. 

[jimmyp]

10 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

If masks are effective, explain flu deaths this year ?

Is this the opening line to a joke, or are you trying to make a point? 

[Cardinal]

Question for the thread. To spark discussion rather than having an answer myself. 

Where does the responsibility lie? With people who have coronavirus not to spread it or people who don't have it not to catch it. 

If people have it then the responsibility lies with them to isolate so they don't infect anyone. But it where does that leave people who are asymptotic. How can they isolotate if they don't know they have it? 

Where as if you don't want to catch it then the responsibility lies with you. You take all the precautions you can - wash hands, social distance, isolate if you have to, etc.

Lockdown suggest that all the responsibility lies solely with those that have it, which I guess is quite a harsh approach. Allowing us go about our business with controls suggest the responsibility lies with you doing what you can not to catch it. Which is the better approach? 

Can you compare it to diseases like cancer. We all know things that increase your chances of suffering from cancer such as smoking, poor diet, etc so we try to avoid things like that. The responsibility lies with us. Does the same apply with coronavirus? 

[Gee SCREAMER !!]

25 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

If masks are effective, explain flu deaths this year ?

Eh.  Have you looked at the flu figures for the winter in the Southern hemisphere

14 minutes ago, jimmyp said:

Is this the opening line to a joke, or are you trying to make a point? 

KNOCK, KNOCK

Whos's there 

Covid

Covid who, You don't exist , where's my bucket of pre- lockdown sand to stick my head .

Think the post was something to that effect.

 

[jimmyp]

17 minutes ago, Cardinal said:

Question for the thread. To spark discussion rather than having an answer myself. 

Where does the responsibility lie? With people who have coronavirus not to spread it or people who don't have it not to catch it. 

Both, it would be very irresponsible  to knowingly spread it though.

If people have it then the responsibility lies with them to isolate so they don't infect anyone. But it where does that leave people who are asymptotic. How can they isolotate if they don't know they have it? 

This is why we need much better test and trace so this situation can be reduced. 

Where as if you don't want to catch it then the responsibility lies with you. You take all the precautions you can - wash hands, social distance, isolate if you have to, etc.

Yes unfortunately fully isolating the vulnerable though is an almost impossible task.

Lockdown suggest that all the responsibility lies solely with those that have it, which I guess is quite a harsh approach. Allowing us go about our business with controls suggest the responsibility lies with you doing what you can not to catch it. Which is the better approach?

Lockdown isn’t a punishment, it should only be used when the spread can not be controlled. If we had better test and trace and people were more compliant with isolation, lockdowns would not have to be as frequent.  

 

Can you compare it to diseases like cancer. We all know things that increase your chances of suffering from cancer such as smoking, poor diet, etc so we try to avoid things like that. The responsibility lies with us. Does the same apply with coronavirus? 

Being in an enclosed space with poor ventilation and lots of people is a breeding ground for Covid. Unavoidable unfortunately for certain people in certain situations.

 

Sorry if my response is hard to read. I’m on a phone and most of my answers are within your post

[Eddie]

10 minutes ago, Cardinal said:

Question for the thread. To spark discussion rather than having an answer myself. 

Where does the responsibility lie? With people who have coronavirus not to spread it or people who don't have it not to catch it. 

If people have it then the responsibility lies with them to isolate so they don't infect anyone. But it where does that leave people who are asymptotic. How can they isolotate if they don't know they have it? 

Where as if you don't want to catch it then the responsibility lies with you. You take all the precautions you can - wash hands, social distance, isolate if you have to, etc.

Lockdown suggest that all the responsibility lies solely with those that have it, which I guess is quite a harsh approach. Allowing us go about our business with controls suggest the responsibility lies with you doing what you can not to catch it. Which is the better approach? 

Can you compare it to diseases like cancer. We all know things that increase your chances of suffering from cancer such as smoking, poor diet, etc so we try to avoid things like that. The responsibility lies with us. Does the same apply with coronavirus? 

I would suggest that the primary responsibility always lies with the thrower, not the catcher.

The disease is transmitted from person to person via droplets of mucus from the airways, and these are then inhaled by others.

I would suggest that the best way is to always assume that you MIGHT have it, therefore socially distance and always wear a mask just to be on the safe side. Both of there safeguards will reduce the likelihood of ejecting airborne droplets to a certain extent, and any reduction is a good thing.

[Uptherams]

I've started to wear a mask whilst driving. Then when I get to some traffic lights, look over to the car next to me and then aggressively point at my mask and the driver/passengers.

[Gritstone Ram]

57 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I saw a report on TV last night that looked at the UK in terms of coronavirus and how badly it was doing.

It showed a map correlating to the US and the rest of Europe, it was depressing with the US and UK following similar paths.

But then I started thinking, it's blindingly obvious why things are out of control here.

You have Trump telling the 40% of the population willing to listen to him that there is nothing to fear and that 'you get it and then you just get better' (he literally said that this week) and actively discouraging all those around from wearing masks.

Then you have Governors like DeSantis here in Florida, fully opening bars before the state is remotely close to a safe level and others like the one whose name I forget now, claiming masks can make you sick.

So yeh, it's kinda obvious.

But you have none of that in England, so wtf is going on?

I'm being serious here. Trump simply doesn't care. Nothing matters to him other than reelection, literally nothing.

But The Tories recognize the gravity and clearly want to get a handle on things, but can't.

Even though I'm clearly a leftist pinko commie bedwetter, this isn't meant to be a political post per se, I'm just lost for a seasonable explanation. 

My opinion is things are two complicated for people. Lock down the rules were clear for everyone now no one has got a clue so they make their own rules up. I think if you want interaction, work places open pubs open then it is going to spread. I don’t have a problem and think the people who don’t want to catch it should stay isolating but not expect everyone to suffer.

[Rev]

19 minutes ago, Uptherams said:

I've started to wear a mask whilst driving. Then when I get to some traffic lights, look over to the car next to me and then aggressively point at my mask and the driver/passengers.

I hate bus drivers like you.

I bet you deliberately drive off when you see a passenger running to board too, after you've given them hope by waiting.

[jimmyp]

3 minutes ago, Van Gritters said:

My opinion is things are two complicated for people. Lock down the rules were clear for everyone now no one has got a clue so they make their own rules up. I think if you want interaction, work places open pubs open then it is going to spread. I don’t have a problem and think the people who don’t want to catch it should stay isolating but not expect everyone to suffer.

It really isn’t about expecting everyone to suffer. It’s about what is currently possible, given the situation we are in, and which is the less &@“£ option out of our list of very £”@& options.

It’s all very negative, but also very realistic. 

 

How do we sufficiently isolate the vulnerable long term. 

Are we talking extremely clinically vulnerable, clinically vulnerable or moderately vulnerable. 

Do we lock up all the kids and people with problematic asthma, pregnant women, obese folk and everybody above the age of 60? 

How do we operate the nhs to cater for both the vulnerable and the capable.

Does every care worker, doctor and everyone in the medical profession, police officers, special needs teachers, to name but a few also need to isolate?  

 

 

[Rev]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

I saw a report on TV last night that looked at the UK in terms of coronavirus and how badly it was doing.

It showed a map correlating to the US and the rest of Europe, it was depressing with the US and UK following similar paths.

But then I started thinking, it's blindingly obvious why things are out of control here.

You have Trump telling the 40% of the population willing to listen to him that there is nothing to fear and that 'you get it and then you just get better' (he literally said that this week) and actively discouraging all those around from wearing masks.

Then you have Governors like DeSantis here in Florida, fully opening bars before the state is remotely close to a safe level and others like the one whose name I forget now, claiming masks can make you sick.

So yeh, it's kinda obvious.

But you have none of that in England, so wtf is going on?

I'm being serious here. Trump simply doesn't care. Nothing matters to him other than reelection, literally nothing.

But The Tories recognize the gravity and clearly want to get a handle on things, but can't.

Even though I'm clearly a leftist pinko commie bedwetter, this isn't meant to be a political post per se, I'm just lost for a seasonable explanation. 

It depends on how long you've been out the country?

You may have left during the era when politicians took responsibility for their remit, and resigned when things went wrong through even through no fault of their own.

Different times my friend, now they look for a civil servant to chuck under the bus first and foremost, if none are available they simply disappear from view for a while.

 

[G STAR RAM]

27 minutes ago, reverendo de duivel said:

It depends on how long you've been out the country?

You may have left during the era when politicians took responsibility for their remit, and resigned when things went wrong through even through no fault of their own.

Different times my friend, now they look for a civil servant to chuck under the bus first and foremost, if none are available they simply disappear from view for a while.

 

Was just thinking the other day, what on earth happened to Jacob Rees-Mogg?!

[i-Ram]

2 hours ago, jimmyp said:

Yet it’s the women from hospitality that are being hit the most. I’m not making it up you can check hospital admissions by occupation.

Thanks for the heads up Jimmy I will immediately stop picking up women in hospitality unless their mask covers both nose and mouth.  I will miss Ebony though - the little Covid denying minx.

[Uptherams]

35 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Was just thinking the other day, what on earth happened to Jacob Rees-Mogg?!

What happened to most of the Conservative party? They are obviously distancing themselves from the leadership because they plan to get rid of Boris and Hancock, etc. Good luck to them ??

[jimmyp]

15 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Thanks for the heads up Jimmy I will immediately stop picking up women in hospitality unless their mask covers both nose and mouth.  I will miss Ebony though - the little Covid denying minx.

Your sacrifice and commitment to the cause is truly outstanding, you are to be commended. ??

[Albert]

9 hours ago, maxjam said:

Delaying infections until we have a vaccine is a noble cause, but what long term damage do we accrue in the meantime?  Furthermore, will a vaccine ever arrive?  And if one does - and btw I'm not the only one with concerns about a fast-tracked vaccine - only approx half the UK will be getting it anyway, certainly at the beginning which could lead to another year of restrictions;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/01/covid-19-vaccine-alone-wont-defeat-spread-of-virus-report-warns

Very little if you control the virus well. The damage accrued in terms and death, health burden, etc for not controlling it either way will be massive though. 

As to whether the vaccine will arrive, maybe not. I'd prefer that journey didn't involve sacrificing the vulnerable to the volcano though, while watching the economy burn. 

As to the roll out, it's not going to be an overnight miracle end to the pandemic, hence the value in having the virus under control long term. 

[Bob The Badger]

1 hour ago, reverendo de duivel said:

It depends on how long you've been out the country?

You may have left during the era when politicians took responsibility for their remit, and resigned when things went wrong through even through no fault of their own.

Different times my friend, now they look for a civil servant to chuck under the bus first and foremost, if none are available they simply disappear from view for a while.

 

When we left Blair was PM. Are you telling me he's not still in charge?

[uttoxram75]

Some posters on here seem knowledgeable about coronavirus and the world's governments responses to it.

I haven't got a clue, but i have tried to read different views from different sources and i still have no idea what to believe.

Is there any truth in this article for instance?

https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-covid-19-numbers-game-the-second-wave-is-based-on-fake-statistics/5725003?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles