RamNut Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Possibly the worst thing about volunteering for a vaccine trial is that half the volunteers won’t be given the vaccine, and probably never will get any protection, as they will want to see if they die. They are the control group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramit Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, RamNut said: Possibly the worst thing about volunteering for a vaccine trial is that half the volunteers won’t be given the vaccine, and probably never will get any protection, as they will want to see if they die. They are the control group. Get their mercury for nothing and their formaldehyde for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 hours ago, RamNut said: Possibly the worst thing about volunteering for a vaccine trial is that half the volunteers won’t be given the vaccine, and probably never will get any protection, as they will want to see if they die. They are the control group. There is no doubt that these volunteers are incredibly brave. However, In this instance, I don’t think that is quite how it will work. Initially, the placebo will be given to some (the control group) whilst they are looking for any side effects. I really don’t think this brave group will simply be hung out to dry. Also, If I’m wrong, they won’t wait to see “if they die”. They’ll be closely monitored and given the same treatment as the rest of us if they catch the virus. I would imagine none have any other underlying health issues and therefore, especially with close monitoring and the likelihood of early detection, will have a very good chance of surviving. Once every one is satisfied that the vaccine works (in a certain percentage of cases) and no significant side effects are detected I’d like to think these folk would be at the front of the queue. Anyone that has been involved in drugs trials (my daughter has) will now that, once the trials are completed, being on the placebo doesn’t exclude you from receiving the active drug so, the statement “never will get any protection” is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 A story from September 1665. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-51904810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GboroRam Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 6 minutes ago, TramRam said: A story from September 1665. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-51904810 And some people accuse the BBC of chasing breaking stories all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TramRam Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 4 minutes ago, GboroRam said: And some people accuse the BBC of chasing breaking stories all the time. Laura Kuenssberg will be pi$$ed off she missed this huge story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Brolly Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, TramRam said: A story from September 1665. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-51904810 Wouldn't really call it self isolation not like you could go many places in 1665. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 56 minutes ago, Tamworthram said: There is no doubt that these volunteers are incredibly brave. However, In this instance, I don’t think that is quite how it will work. Initially, the placebo will be given to some (the control group) whilst they are looking for any side effects. I really don’t think this brave group will simply be hung out to dry. I’m not saying that they would be hung out to dry. But if the vaccine is injected and the immune system learns to recognise an invader and produces antibodies to the spike protein, then that would be beneficial in preventing the spread of the virus once it is within the body. Presumably this would be a defence against multiple organ failure etc. But will this prevent airborne transmission? Presumably the lung cells can still get infected by coronavirus. Once the virus has invaded the cell the real defence needs to be against the genome not the spike protein. Presumably the benefits Of the vaccine would be measured in terms of reducing the severity of the symptoms of a respiratory infection. So, giving someone plasma with antibodies for example, would undermine the experiment. just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworthram Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 32 minutes ago, RamNut said: I’m not saying that they would be hung out to dry. But if the vaccine is injected and the immune system learns to recognise an invader and produces antibodies to the spike protein, then that would be beneficial in preventing the spread of the virus once it is within the body. Presumably this would be a defence against multiple organ failure etc. But will this prevent airborne transmission? Presumably the lung cells can still get infected by coronavirus. Once the virus has invaded the cell the real defence needs to be against the genome not the spike protein. Presumably the benefits Of the vaccine would be measured in terms of reducing the severity of the symptoms of a respiratory infection. So, giving someone plasma with antibodies for example, would undermine the experiment. just my thoughts. I can see what you did there, tried to blind me with science. No doubt you are right but, the phrase “want to see if they die” does sound a bit like let’s just sit back and watch which, clearly won’t be the case. I’m sure the very clever scientists know what they’re doing and will be developing and testing a vaccine designed to protect against airborne transmission given, by all accounts, this is the main way it spreads. Otherwise, what’s the point? Either way, an incredibly brave group of people worthy of being included in the Thursday evening round of applause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boycie Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 44 minutes ago, RamNut said: I’m not saying that they would be hung out to dry. But if the vaccine is injected and the immune system learns to recognise an invader and produces antibodies to the spike protein, then that would be beneficial in preventing the spread of the virus once it is within the body. Presumably this would be a defence against multiple organ failure etc. But will this prevent airborne transmission? Presumably the lung cells can still get infected by coronavirus. Once the virus has invaded the cell the real defence needs to be against the genome not the spike protein. Presumably the benefits Of the vaccine would be measured in terms of reducing the severity of the symptoms of a respiratory infection. So, giving someone plasma with antibodies for example, would undermine the experiment. just my thoughts. Cut and paste. watch him deny it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FindernRam Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Thalidomide! OK maybe we are better at developing stuff these days but lets not over streamline the process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 15 hours ago, Angry Ram said: Dubious if Oxfordshire is Home Counties.. More Welsh really ? 15 hours ago, i-Ram said: They probably can hear him in the Home Counties. Cheeky twits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Some sort of trials going to be launched by the Southampton NHS trust and Mrs VdM has signed up to volunteer (no idea yet whether she will be "selected"). Good on her for doing her bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ram for All Seasons Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 A vaccine developed by Biontech has gone on trial in Germany. Shares in the company have gone up 40%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Boycie said: Cut and paste. watch him deny it. Denied lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 3 hours ago, Tamworthram said: I can see what you did there, tried to blind me with science. No doubt you are right but, the phrase “want to see if they die” does sound a bit like let’s just sit back and watch which, clearly won’t be the case. I don’t always word things with great subtlety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Labour MP Jonathan Ashworth said it looks like the UK is heading to one of the worst death rates in Europe, wants to know why our death rate seems so poor, compared, for example, to Germany? Well what a lucky example that was to pick, wonder why he didnt happen to pick Spain, Italy or Belgium? I wonder if the rate has anything do to do with population or population density by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 30 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Labour MP Jonathan Ashworth said it looks like the UK is heading to one of the worst death rates in Europe, wants to know why our death rate seems so poor, compared, for example, to Germany? Well what a lucky example that was to pick, wonder why he didnt happen to pick Spain, Italy or Belgium? I wonder if the rate has anything do to do with population or population density by any chance? Keep wriggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob The Badger Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 38 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: I wonder if the rate has anything do to do with population or population density by any chance? About 17.2 seconds worth of research would tell you, no, no, it doesn't. It does however, have everything to do with the way countries have responded and been prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Clough Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 57 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Labour MP Jonathan Ashworth said it looks like the UK is heading to one of the worst death rates in Europe, wants to know why our death rate seems so poor, compared, for example, to Germany? Well what a lucky example that was to pick, wonder why he didnt happen to pick Spain, Italy or Belgium? I wonder if the rate has anything do to do with population or population density by any chance? I think the percentage of people being tested is the biggest variable - hence our cases:deaths is much higher than Germany. Population:deaths will most likely be due to how much it managed to spread before lockdown OR how deaths have been reported in each country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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