Jourdan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, nottingram said: So if we followed the Swansea route, say, do you think they’ll be in a better position than what they were found in if Cooper were to leave at the end of the season? Probably not, he’s doing a largely similar job to what Frank did here, plugging holes with short term fixes to make himself look better and I don’t think we were left in a better state than what Lampard found us in. Of course he’s under pressure to succeed. Is there a single manager in world football who isn’t? The only people putting pressure on him to succeed quickly are people who want him sacked now. I would agree he isn’t getting the best out of what he has at the moment, doesn’t worry me too much as that’s a short term viewpoint. This squad at their very best pre Rooney is probably top 12 at best so a few places here or there doesn’t bother me. I think the football could be better of course. I’ve asked it to others before but seriously what would you do with this set of players. The goalkeeper and centre backs can’t play out, there’s no target man to go long to, there’s no runners to chase channel balls, no one can cross. It’s frankly laughable that you think it’s unfounded he wants to develop our youth players. Literally that is the whole point of what he is doing. He’s also stated he will only sign players on loan with a reasonable chance of a permanent deal at the end so I will choose to believe that was a possibility for Benkovic, and it fits the mould of big signings in problem areas that was followed with the signing of Bielik, who has looked great but unfortunately is injured now, not Cocu’s fault. You then seem to use the clubs constraints against him. Not sure why, but it follows a general trend of you bending anything to fit a pre determined narrative. The clubs constraints and his policy of youth promotion are a intertwined. The club is going to rely on selling young players to keep going, they can’t do that without a manager to promote them. He did it at PSV as well and it’s a large reason he was hired, so I’m really not sure why you think it’s forced because of our financial situation. Absolutely. If Cooper leaves at the end of the season, it will likely mean that another club higher up the ladder has considered his work at Swansea to be good. They are on course to finish higher in the table than in 2019. Their young players - Grimes, Byers, Fulton, Roberts and Rodon - have established themselves further in the first team. The likes of Ayew, van der Hoorn and Baston have had positive seasons and could be sold on. Why would they sack him? It's not similar to the job Lampard did at all. Lampard had the luxury of spending £12-15 million on Marriott, Waghorn, Malone and Jozefzoon, as well as the top shelf loan signings. Until recently, Swansea were shopping in a different market. They were getting loans from Watford and Newcastle, not Liverpool and Chelsea. If they had re-invested the money received for McBurnie, James and Ayew, fair point, but they didn't. It's very subjective, isn't it? I would have said Millwall's squad is bottom six at best. They are competing for a play off place. If you believe he isn't getting the best out of what he has, what have you seen that has convinced you of better times ahead? What would I do? Play players regularly, play players in their natural positions, play more bravely. Just for starters. Dutch clubs in modern times have always operated this way and have the established infrastructure to make it workable - good academies and good scouting networks, for example. And of course it is much easier to operate under these constraints when you have a working knowledge of the level you are playing at and you are at a club that is the 2-3rd biggest club at that level. Clubs in England pick and choose when they follow this strategy. The thinking behind it is not wrong itself, you just need to leave it in the hands of the right people to execute it correctly. Have we done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will the Ram Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I know our squad is not as good as the last few seasons and losing our captain & the off field issues haven’t helped but I think he could get more out of the players if he wasn’t so negative with his mindset/tactics. I am not a fan of Cocu. I don’t see what he is trying to do. He is too negative, particularly away from home. He worries too much about the opposition instead of looking at what the team can do. We pass backwards all the time and our play is so slow. Some games we barely muster a shot on target. He persists with Waghorn but he cannot play the lone striker role. Our away form is abysmal. I believe we only beat Huddersfield because they were suffering a relegation hangover and were in free fall at the time. Same with Scunthorpe. Apart from the Huddersfield first half we haven’t really produced a good League performance on the road. Middlesbrough second half was decent but we could’ve been a 3 or 4-0 down at half time. If he played two strikers and actually had a go away from home it would be better. Even if we lost with that approach I would be happier as at least we’ve tried. More often then not we look toothless in attack. After the Charlton H performance I hoped we had turned a corner. It does seem to have been a one-off though except for maybe Crystal Palace A. I think the mini unbeaten run gave false hope really. I have read from others that he’s trying to make us harder to beat but that went out the window last night. Our defending was shambolic, against bottom of the league too. I can’t agree with the “we need stability” argument either. It is not just the club’s fault that we haven’t had stability. Our last two managers chose to leave. I think Cocu will stay because I’m not sure that the club can afford to sack him. I am worried about where sticking with him will take us though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 18 hours ago, Jourdan said: The longer Cocu stays, the more irretrievable his reputation will be. For the sake of the man's career, we should let him go. He is not going to be able to turn this around. The recent run merely papered over some massive cracks both on and off the pitch. People seem certain that we are safe. Personally I'm not convinced. Our run-in is really difficult. Seven of our nine remaining away games are against teams in the top half. Four of the current top six make up half of our remaining home games. Even though we have a 12-point cushion, the picture could look completely different by the middle of March if we are not careful. Our home form is respectable, but should that take a turn for the worse, what then? Even if we do somehow manage to scrape enough points together to survive, what hope do we have for next season under Cocu? Is Cocu learning and showing signs of understanding the division? There's little to no evidence of it. Most of us think we need anywhere from 6-10 new players to rebuild the squad. Where is the money coming from for that? The long-awaited new investment? Will it even be enough given our track record in the transfer market? If Cocu stays, we could be in for a number of barren years. Is that what he signed up for? If not now then in the summer, I think we need a fresh start and to appoint a young, up-and-coming coach in the mould of Steve Cooper. Someone who will be able to grow with the club as it re-emerges out of the mire, because it's unfair to throw Cocu's reputation over hot coals by asking him to do a job that he has never looked prepared for. Get a grip mate...how can he change that much with this squad ???? All you ever do is spout negative crap about Cocu...he has players that are not good enough....if anyone really thinks that they are then just look at the Northampton game...players not being able to pass it 5 yards to someone or get into space...devoid of ideas,slow labouring and technically inadequate...but that is Cocu's fault ?? once them players cross the white line it is all down to them....the PNE game was good but these players cannot do it consistently....Keogh situation was a farce,Davies's legs have gone we are playing a RB at CB sometimes a LB at CB a Keepers not good enough a recruitment team who can't actually recruit ...(don't blame FFP for this the recruitment team they know how much we have and dont have to spend so get on with finding players in our market ) Credit to Cocu for not walking away.....because he wants to sort it out....you mention knowing the division but yet fail to mention the fact we just dont have the players and if anyone thinks these kids that Cocu has managed to integrate are the answer then you're deluded....but they are better than some of the dross we have here.....but to rely on them at this stage of there career is a risk. Everyone bangs on about Bogle but how many goals does he cost us ??? but its ok because he made a decent cross for Martin to score...laughable....we are as a football club in a right mess with a poor squad of players and if Cocu is prepared to hang around and try and sort this out then fair play to him....if this time next season with hopefully a better squad then we can judge him more fairly...try supporting the man rather than having constant digs even when we win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 36 minutes ago, S8TY said: Credit to Cocu for not walking away... Lol! Where's he gonna go? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Lol! Where's he gonna go? ? Walking away doesn't necessarily mean to another club....Rowett cleared off so did Lampard...Cocu probably doesn't need this but he's prepared to try and work through the age groups and get us into a healthier position giving youth a chance but this will not happen overnight with the same players who constantly fail to be consistent or technically good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Amazing how all these dross players were here last season as well.. Must have been something they ate in the summer.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I'm not a happy clapper by any means but I'd hate to be sat near some of the constant whingers on here...we ALL know its not good enough at the moment...we ALL know!! but give him a chance with his own players with his ideas No one knows if a manager can succeed like Rowett could not make Stoke play with arguably the best squad in the division at the time but now at a club more suited to his style and with fans who expect less success and less demands he's all of a sudden a fantastic manager in some peoples eyes....judge Cocu this time next season with no excuses ....give him some players that he wants then judge him....now is a mess and i suspect he's wondering what he's walked into....but it would be the same for any manager but hes not walking away from it.....he knows just like us...that it is not good enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Yani P said: Amazing how all these dross players were here last season as well.. Must have been something they ate in the summer.. yeah dross players covered up mainly by 3 exceptional talents who are all internationals now...funny that and without our best defender and club captain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Lol! Where's he gonna go? ? Would you employ Alan Titchmarsh for your mansion's garden Roy and give him a plastic bucket and spade ?? Or give him the tools to do a good job......think about it Roy old bean....think about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, S8TY said: Would you employ Alan Titchmarsh for your garden mansion Roy and give him a plastic bucket and spade ?? Or give him the tools to do a good job......think about it Roy old bean....think about it Alan would know how to use the bucket and spade he'd got to create what looked good knowing that would entice in more bees! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 On 28/01/2020 at 22:49, MackworthRamIsGod said: I can see what he is trying to achieve, it isn't quite working at the minute but it will come good. We were unlucky tonight, Luton will surge up the table after that result tonight. Have faith Rams fans, the playoff are not over. This result is not Cocu or the players fault, it is solely my responsibility. I have paid to watch 3 games on Rams TV and lost every time, all perfectly winnable games. Completely my fault, wont happen again I promise. I think most supporters get what Cocu is trying to achieve. Just not sure that the players do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 minute ago, europia said: I think most supporters get what Cocu is trying to achieve. Just not sure that the players do... Bit of a drawback that then! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derbydaz22 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Bit of a drawback that then! ? Let’s sack him then and do what? This squad is bottom 8 in my opinion what do you think this current squad is capable of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 13 minutes ago, derbydaz22 said: Let’s sack him then and do what? This squad is bottom 8 in my opinion what do you think this current squad is capable of? Looking at Millwall and PNE I think we should be able to do as well, certainly top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Bit of a drawback that then! ? I have never heard Cocu whine or whinge about lack of funds or make a fuss about anything...many managers constantly moan about not having this or not having that or we have injuries lost our captain pile up of fixtures blah blah He has every right to publically state just how it is but he chooses not too just like Klopp would not berate Karius who made 2 massive errors in the CL Final but the next season he was replaced. I have no doubt inside he see's many as not good enough but he will not say that....so that is one of the reasons i say give him his own players to work with who will carry off his ideas.....it might just work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 minute ago, S8TY said: ...so that is one of the reasons i say give him his own players to work with who will carry off his ideas.....it might just work Not having much luck enticing any at the minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Not having much luck enticing any at the minute. And thats his fault is it ???? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, S8TY said: And thats his fault is it ???? lol Not making us look much of a draw is he? There's Rooney and the team and him and still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Not making us look much of a draw is he? There's Rooney and the team and him and still... omg...you really are quite unbeleivable at times Roy...now our lack of recruitment is Cocu's fault!!!..I also noticed that one of the floodlights bulbs was out the other day.....Just how did Cocu miss that on his inspection lol......The Recruitment at this club is a joke.....in fact a lot of things at this club is a joke at the moment...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Just now, S8TY said: omg...you really are quite unbeleivable at times Roy...now our lack of recruitment is Cocu's fault!!!..I also noticed that one of the floodlights bulbs was out the other day.....Just how did Cocu miss that on his inspection lol......The Recruitment at this club is a joke.....in fact a lot of things at this club is a joke at the moment...... Lol. OK got it, Cocu has no blame to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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