Two Directors step down

[Archied]

6 hours ago, AdamRam said:

You set a budget, you keep to a budget, Not rocket science.  

Im nor sure where I said financial mismanagement either, just that to laud MM as being one step ahead in his financial planning is like saying the TC bosses should win travel agents of the year.

Problem is your idea of mismanagement or management of the finances is based on what you think the goal should be ,,, perhaps ,just perhaps mel s goal is to push as close to ffp and find ways of being able to invest as much as poss to give Derby the best chance of competing for promotion as fast as poss as it’s getting tougher and tougher to compete with the parachute money clubs , being able to attract the best managers and players we poss can in the championship, in which case mel is managing the finances brilliantly and given the choice of what we are trying to do under him than under the American s and clough hands tied years I’m enjoying mels time far more and I reckon the crowd figure and the way they were heading under the Americans tell us the majority feel the same,

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Archied said:

Problem is your idea of mismanagement or management of the finances is based on what you think the goal should be ,,, perhaps ,just perhaps mel s goal is to push as close to ffp and find ways of being able to invest as much as poss to give Derby the best chance of competing for promotion as fast as poss as it’s getting tougher and tougher to compete with the parachute money clubs , being able to attract the best managers and players we poss can in the championship, in which case mel is managing the finances brilliantly and given the choice of what we are trying to do under him than under the American s and clough hands tied years I’m enjoying mels time far more and I reckon the crowd figure and the way they were heading under the Americans tell us the majority feel the same,

People seem to confuse DCFC finances with MM finances.

DCFC finances are just fine.

We have probably flirted with FFP but that certainly isnt because we are in financial trouble. 

MM finances on the other hand have been poorly managed. Hes basically spent in excess of £100m on a project where the only chance of any financial return is promotion to the Premier League.

Of course MM may not see the money as investment but more spending on something he loves doing and may not be worried about any return.

[hintonsboots]

I’m not party to MM’s finances, but if his net worth in 500 mill according to the Sunday Times rich list , his investments must be generating 20 mill a year, which must leave him reasonably comfortable. 

[AdamRam]

2 hours ago, Archied said:

Problem is your idea of mismanagement or management of the finances is based on what you think the goal should be ,,, perhaps ,just perhaps mel s goal is to push as close to ffp and find ways of being able to invest as much as poss to give Derby the best chance of competing for promotion as fast as poss as it’s getting tougher and tougher to compete with the parachute money clubs , being able to attract the best managers and players we poss can in the championship, in which case mel is managing the finances brilliantly and given the choice of what we are trying to do under him than under the American s and clough hands tied years I’m enjoying mels time far more and I reckon the crowd figure and the way they were heading under the Americans tell us the majority feel the same,

One could argue that under the Americans we have achieved the same as under MM, one trip to Wembley that ended with defeat. I have not Ickes at the average attendance, but it does surprise me that this season is higher than the last year under the Americans.

So if his plan was to push for promotion whilst pushing FFP to the limits was his plan, he has done this, I would argue though that the plan was to get promoted, hence why we haven’t had a manager that has started more than one season on the bounce (exaggeration slightly on circumstances before anyone cries into their Saturday night fish and chips)
 

When MM first took over the club, he stated he did not intend to lose money, now these goalposts may have moved but as per the post by g-star the only way to do this was to get promoted.

I don’t believe when he took over the club, it was with the intention of selling the ground off to ensure we competed within FFP, might be wrong of course, but I’d be surprised.

 

[AdamRam]

4 hours ago, G STAR RAM said:

Sorry, think I misinterpreted your post. 

Think he is probably looking to share the losses.

Big guesswork but also think any new investor would also have to bring some revenue streams to the table as opposed to just equity purchase.

Thanks, do we also know where we stand with FFP, I presume (guess) we now have leeway to manoeuvre in the transfer market ?

[GenBr]

26 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

 

I don’t believe when he took over the club, it was with the intention of selling the ground off to ensure we competed within FFP, might be wrong of course, but I’d be surprised.

 

When Mel became majority shareholder the rules explicitly stated that sales of assets such as stadiums could not be used for FFP purposes.

[Rev]

Mel came back into ownership by funding the day to day losses the club  were making under the previous owners, in return for an equity stake as GSE had reached the end of the road funding wise.

I'm sure if he could attract a similar investment to give him a break financially he'd snap their hands off, but that's probably unlikely. 

I just hope he can stay majorly invested in the long term, he deserves to see a better return than he's had so far.

One thing I'm sure of, any investment or buyout will only happen if he's convinced it's the interests of Derby County FC, even ahead of his own stake.

[Rev]

43 minutes ago, GenBr said:

When Mel became majority shareholder the rules explicitly stated that sales of assets such as stadiums could not be used for FFP purposes.

The maximum FFP losses were also different weren't they?

I'm sure they went from £13m, down to £8m the next season, then were due to be £5m in following seasons, before being replaced by the current system.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, AdamRam said:

Thanks, do we also know where we stand with FFP, I presume (guess) we now have leeway to manoeuvre in the transfer market ?

Never really seen FFP results reported but I'm sure they are somewhere.

I'd guess that if selling the ground counted for FFP, added to the wages savings and managerial compensation, we should have plenty of leeway.

The transfer market should have no bearing on FFP if we are buying players who can hold their value, it's only the wages that will affect us. 

[AdamRam]

1 hour ago, GenBr said:

When Mel became majority shareholder the rules explicitly stated that sales of assets such as stadiums could not be used for FFP purposes.

Fair point, they were changed a year later.

[Guest]

5 hours ago, hintonsboots said:

I’m not party to MM’s finances, but if his net worth in 500 mill according to the Sunday Times rich list , his investments must be generating 20 mill a year, which must leave him reasonably comfortable. 

Interesting this one is.

Looking back, his estimated wealth has stayed at £500m for 3 years.

This to be would indicate that all of the money being ploughed into DCFC is being treated as an investment. 

So although on paper he has £500m, I would estimate £150m to £200m of that is tied up in DCFC and not making him any money.

Could it be that his income is now no longer covering the DCFC losses hence why he is looking for external investment?

Just like to point out that all of the above is guesswork as I have no idea of any other sources of income MM has.

[europia]

3 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Interesting this one is.

Looking back, his estimated wealth has stayed at £500m for 3 years.

This to be would indicate that all of the money being ploughed into DCFC is being treated as an investment. 

So although on paper he has £500m, I would estimate £150m to £200m of that is tied up in DCFC and not making him any money.

Could it be that his income is now no longer covering the DCFC losses hence why he is looking for external investment?

Just like to point out that all of the above is guesswork as I have no idea of any other sources of income MM has.

Another possibility of course, that his investments outside of football are doing very well and more than covering his losses at DCFC. Pure speculation on my side, but just another perspective. 

[GenBr]

47 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

Fair point, they were changed a year later.

Yes, which is why the complaints from the rest of the teams in the EFL about stadium sales are completely meaningless. The EFL changed the rules to allow it - if they didn't like it the member clubs could have stopped it.

[AdamRam]

7 minutes ago, GenBr said:

Yes, which is why the complaints from the rest of the teams in the EFL about stadium sales are completely meaningless. The EFL changed the rules to allow it - if they didn't like it the member clubs could have stopped it.

We digress slightly and i totally agree with complaints being meaningless, however there could be an argument that the change went under the radar when implementing. Rumour has it that the rule was implemented by accident and a result of a copy and paste of the Premier League P&S rules (which have always allowed asset sales.

Only a rumour of course, I’m sure there EFL wouldn’t allow such an error to occur.

[Boycie]

so are we saying Mel should of carried of with the sub 10 million wage bill that Nigel was told to work to, and hoped that the spirit of the clough/mac1 era would of continued?

Mac 1 Wembley was a once in a lifetime chance to get us up.

Everything changed after that.

If Mel hadn’t invested in players post Wembley all the fans with 20/20 hind sight would of been bemoaning a missed opportunity to take us to the next level.

Ive said it more than once.

Who’d be a championship club owner.

(obviously I don’t mean the possible investment, ahem) 

[Rev]

6 minutes ago, Boycie said:

so are we saying Mel should of carried of with the sub 10 million wage bill that Nigel was told to work to, and hoped that the spirit of the clough/mac1 era would of continued?

Mac 1 Wembley was a once in a lifetime chance to get us up.

Everything changed after that.

If Mel hadn’t invested in players post Wembley all the fans with 20/20 hind sight would of been bemoaning a missed opportunity to take us to the next level.

Ive said it more than once.

Who’d be a championship club owner.

(obviously I don’t mean the possible investment, ahem) 

Not just investment in new players was it though?

To keep the Wembley squad together took serious cash, just to keep them together, nevermind improve the team.

New deals for Bryson, Keogh, Hughes, Hendrick, Russell, possibly others, not to mention bringing Thorne on board permanently had to follow.

That's a load of money invested just to see us go again with the same squad!

[Philmycock]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

so are we saying Mel should of carried of with the sub 10 million wage bill that Nigel was told to work to, and hoped that the spirit of the clough/mac1 era would of continued?

Mac 1 Wembley was a once in a lifetime chance to get us up.

Everything changed after that.

If Mel hadn’t invested in players post Wembley all the fans with 20/20 hind sight would of been bemoaning a missed opportunity to take us to the next level.

Ive said it more than once.

Who’d be a championship club owner.

(obviously I don’t mean the possible investment, ahem) 

*have, are you drunk ? 

[Rampage]

Teletext now saying Mel has turned down 50 million quid from America and is holding out for 60 mill. How much did Mel pay for the Rams.

[i-Ram]

Seems like the Forum’s favourite journalist knows all the goss.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/10122175/Derby-mel-morris-60m-to-sell-bid-rejected/

[uttoxram75]

18 minutes ago, Rampage said:

Teletext now saying Mel has turned down 50 million quid from America and is holding out for 60 mill. How much did Mel pay for the Rams.

Typical Littleover lad, trying it on, tatting for a few bob more.....?