Matt Clarke - Joined on loan for the season AGAIN

[Ambitious]

3 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's unpopular for a reason. Tomori is a better footballer, Clarke was pretty clumsy in the box and gave away how many penalties? Tomori using his pace isn't a bad thing, I don't know why people treat it as such - sure he uses his pace, it's one of his attributes surely it's a good thing he uses his pace to bail him out? Wonderful at passing a ball, quick, strong, improved a dramatic amount with us. Tomori's my favourite Derby player ever. Clarke was above average, Tomori was phenomenal.

Tomori was better for sure, but Clarke excelled in different areas and was definitely better than above average. Clarke is one of the most dominant players in the air in the entire football league - the numbers back up his dominance and I would largely bet that’s why Brighton signed him. I also think he’s won his club’s respective POTY award in the past three. It’s not bad going. 

Statistically, they were very similar in there time here. Clarke better in the air, Tomori made more tackles. No huge surprise. The rest is almost identical in every single way. I would say that Tomori got the benefit of playing next to Keogh, whereas Clarke quickly had to become that leader at the back. 

I’d take Tomori over Clarke, but both players are high quality at this level. 
 

[Andicis]

1 minute ago, Ambitious said:

Tomori was better for sure, but Clarke excelled in different areas and was definitely better than above average. Clarke is one of the most dominant players in the air in the entire football league - the numbers back up his dominance and I would largely bet that’s why Brighton signed him. I also think he’s won his club’s respective POTY award in the past three. It’s not bad going. 

Statistically, they were very similar in there time here. Clarke better in the air, Tomori made more tackles. No huge surprise. The rest is almost identical in every single way. I would say that Tomori got the benefit of playing next to Keogh, whereas Clarke quickly had to become that leader at the back. 

I’d take Tomori over Clarke, but both players are high quality at this level. 
 

I'm biased towards footballing defenders, they've always been my favourite. Clarke's definitely better in the air (though Tomori improved dramatically during his time here). Clarke at times worried me on the ball, I don't think he was great for the first half of his loan, either. Clarke's a good player at this level for sure, but I wouldn't even consider taking him above Fik, who I think has all the raw attributes and a great brain on top to get better over time.

[S8TY]

55 minutes ago, Barney1991 said:

I am chilled was just having a ponderous thought that maybe just maybe we might get to see the machine on a loan to buy. Just a fools hope I wasn't meaning to be tetchy just want the guy back 

There could be all sorts of reasons but not worth getting anxious or over thinking it....might be on holiday? who knows ....but usually sky are not far off when they say something

[NottsRam77]

13 minutes ago, Andicis said:

I'm biased towards footballing defenders, they've always been my favourite. Clarke's definitely better in the air (though Tomori improved dramatically during his time here). Clarke at times worried me on the ball, I don't think he was great for the first half of his loan, either. Clarke's a good player at this level for sure, but I wouldn't even consider taking him above Fik, who I think has all the raw attributes and a great brain on top to get better over time.

That’s the thing though, some things can’t be taught.

Mentally in terms of reading the game it can be improved For sure.

but your either a natural at reading the game or ur not 

I don’t think tomori is, a physical powerhouse yes, a good defender yes 

but as Iv mentioned before in my book he’s reactive to situations.... not proactive and reads them before they arrive and become a problem 

just my thoughts 

[S8TY]

14 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Tomori was better for sure, but Clarke excelled in different areas and was definitely better than above average. Clarke is one of the most dominant players in the air in the entire football league - the numbers back up his dominance and I would largely bet that’s why Brighton signed him. I also think he’s won his club’s respective POTY award in the past three. It’s not bad going. 

Statistically, they were very similar in there time here. Clarke better in the air, Tomori made more tackles. No huge surprise. The rest is almost identical in every single way. I would say that Tomori got the benefit of playing next to Keogh, whereas Clarke quickly had to become that leader at the back. 

I’d take Tomori over Clarke, but both players are high quality at this level. 
 

What Temori improved on was getting himself or others out of trouble with his pace...i remember him specifically bailing out Keogh a few times and even his own errors, his turn of pace when chasing someone was fantastic.

Clarke does not possess that type of pace but is immense in the air, I think theyd compliment each other quite well in a partnership 

[Andicis]

4 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

That’s the thing though, some things can’t be taught.

Mentally in terms of reading the game it can be improved For sure.

but your either a natural at reading the game or ur not 

I don’t think tomori is, a physical powerhouse yes, a good defender yes 

but as Iv mentioned before in my book he’s reactive to situations.... not proactive and reads them before they arrive and become a problem 

just my thoughts 

Exactly, such as the natural attributes in which Fik is better than Clarke. He's also a very smart guy who learns pretty quick and improves pretty quick too. It's all personal preference, but I can't imagine a world where Clarke could ever be considered better than Fik, who was an absolute monster at this level.

[NottsRam77]

38 minutes ago, Andicis said:

It's unpopular for a reason. Tomori is a better footballer, Clarke was pretty clumsy in the box and gave away how many penalties? Tomori using his pace isn't a bad thing, I don't know why people treat it as such - sure he uses his pace, it's one of his attributes surely it's a good thing he uses his pace to bail him out? Wonderful at passing a ball, quick, strong, improved a dramatic amount with us. Tomori's my favourite Derby player ever. Clarke was above average, Tomori was phenomenal.

Clumsy ? Im not sure about that 

clumsy is getting caught the wrong side of a forward, switching off a set piece or getting caught under a ball that’s travelled 50-60 yards 

[NottsRam77]

5 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Exactly, such as the natural attributes in which Fik is better than Clarke. He's also a very smart guy who learns pretty quick and improves pretty quick too. It's all personal preference, but I can't imagine a world where Clarke could ever be considered better than Fik, who was an absolute monster at this level.

Or he could always be a Titus bramble ... all the raw attributes but could never rid himselves of those moments that stop him progressing to the highest level  

(bramble played in the top flight so it’s not slight on tomori, the guy just could never cut out all those lapses in concentration, inbetween some fantastic defending) Best example I can think top of my head at 10 past midnight lol

[Andicis]

3 minutes ago, NottsRam77 said:

Clumsy ? Im not sure about that 

clumsy is getting caught the wrong side of a forward, switching off a set piece or getting caught under a ball that’s travelled 50-60 yards 

Genuinely lost count of the times Matt Clarke clumsily gave away a penalty, must have been 3-4 times? Think he got away with a few too. I find him extremely clumsy in the box.

[Andicis]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

Or he could always be a Titus bramble ... all the raw attributes but could never rid himselves of those moments that stop him progressing to the highest level  

(bramble played in the top flight so it’s not slight on tomori, the guy just could never cut out all those lapses in concentration, inbetween some fantastic defending) Best example I can think top of my head at 10 past midnight lol

Oh behave. Tomori should never ever be compared to Titus bloody Bramble. He was awful. Genuinely awful. 

[NottsRam77]

2 minutes ago, Andicis said:

Oh behave. Tomori should never ever be compared to Titus bloody Bramble. He was awful. Genuinely awful. 

200 premier league appearances 

don’t get me wrong ... ain’t a fan obviously 

but u know what I’m saying 

he got to where he did Cos of his attributes not his ability to read the game 

im just saying I prefer my defenders to read situations before they develop 

Clarke’s my sort of defender 

each to ur own sort of thing lol 

For eg I was more a 

Dean Yates man than a Paul “Jossie” Williams one 
 

 

[NottsRam77]

Just now, NottsRam77 said:

200 premier league appearances 

don’t get me wrong ... ain’t a fan obviously 

but u know what I’m saying 

he got to where he did Cos of his attributes not his ability to read the game 

im just saying I prefer my defenders to read situations before they develop 

Clarke’s my sort of defender 

each to ur own sort of thing lol 

For eg I was more a 

Dean Yates man than a Paul “Jossie” Williams one 
 

 

Obviously the dream would be to combined the two in some sort of dream partnership 

[gccrowdpleaser]

Looks like Brighton had their first day back pre season training yesterday.  Suspect that they would have wanted Clarke there to run their own assessments and fitness measurements along with taking a look at him and then send him out over the next few days. 

[DCFC27]

7 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely lost count of the times Matt Clarke clumsily gave away a penalty, must have been 3-4 times? Think he got away with a few too. I find him extremely clumsy in the box.

Tbf Tomori scored a fair few clumsy own goals. 

[NottsRam77]

8 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely lost count of the times Matt Clarke clumsily gave away a penalty, must have been 3-4 times? Think he got away with a few too. I find him extremely clumsy in the box.

And how many time’s did tomori get caught underneath the ball 

ask Kemal roofe he’ll tell u lol 

[RIMBAUD]

8 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely lost count of the times Matt Clarke clumsily gave away a penalty, must have been 3-4 times? Think he got away with a few too. I find him extremely clumsy in the box.

I can only think of one. Middlesbrough away. Be a shame if you could only count to one. ?

[whiteroseram]

8 hours ago, Andicis said:

Genuinely lost count of the times Matt Clarke clumsily gave away a penalty, must have been 3-4 times? Think he got away with a few too. I find him extremely clumsy in the box.

He did improve in that regard, I think that's the reason Brighton are (apparently) willing to send him back to us to continue improving. He was far from alone too, we finished with the 2nd most mistakes leading to goals and at one point we were miles ahead on both that and pens conceeded 

[NottsRam77]

2 minutes ago, whiteroseram said:

He did improve in that regard, I think that's the reason Brighton are (apparently) willing to send him back to us to continue improving. He was far from alone too, we finished with the 2nd most mistakes leading to goals and at one point we were miles ahead on both that and pens conceeded 

When u say mistakes leading to goals I’m assuming that’s us in possession of the ball and then giving it away cheaply.

if that’s the case I totally agree but I wouldn’t Be pointing the finger at Clarke for that the likes of lawrence and Waggy stand out a mile for turning over possession cheaply in daft areas 

[JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta]

I don't think it's fair to blame Clarke for being clumsy in the box. I would guess that if I went back and watched the penalties he did give away that at least a few of them would be because he is desperately trying to salvage a situation that started with someone lazilly giving the ball away in a dangerous area.

We were terrible at that last season and it's one thing I really want us to sharpen up on. Cocu wants us to play passing football which I am fine with, but the players need to be a lot better than they were at actually passing the ball and making decisions on when and where to do it.

When we got it right we were great to watch but all too often a game would be lost or drawn because someone handed the opposition a chance or goal on a plate. That's a collective failure in my view.

[cheron85]

9 hours ago, NottsRam77 said:

clumsy is getting caught the wrong side of a forward, switching off a set piece or getting caught under a ball that’s travelled 50-60 yards 

All of those examples are poor positioning - With the added poor concentration in the second one

None of those are examples of being clumsy

Clumsy is tripping a player in the box when you're trying to get back ahead of them - Clumsy is turning and smashing into a player you didn't realise was there - Clumsy is falling over a tangle of legs in the box

I'd say Tomori's positional awareness was poor at the start of his spell but he was rarely clumsy - Clarke has a better positioning but is very clumsy - He's a big unit and clumsy often comes with that territory - I would also say his positioning is good for a 23 year old and another 3-4 years of decent level football will improve that at which point he will be a very very good CB