DarkFruitsRam7 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 To be fair, although I’ve grown tired of the CM debate and have just accepted that he’ll never do anything for us again, there are some parallels to be drawn with him and Vydra. Both were consistently excellent at this level in the right team and system, but their careers seemed to tail off after a couple of bad moves (remember Vydra at Reading). Vydra clearly got back to his best in the right system. Could Martin? I doubt it, but it’s not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 I'm sure if CM was the type of player Frank wanted he'd be in and around the squad....he wasn't.....comparing Nugent and Martin is folly. Nugent was surely selected a lot for his workrate ( it certainly wasn't his goals ) and there lies the difference. We also do not know of Martin's personality and the influence whether positive or negative in and around the squad. Hull and Reading didn't appear to get a tune out of him and very much doubt he'll play for us again....he was good for us a few seasons ago now but its the past...let it go Possibly the worst piece of business we have done was giving him another contract...Thanks for some good memories Chris but time to move on for both parties...hopefully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Saity said: I'm sure if CM was the type of player Frank wanted he'd be in and around the squad....he wasn't.....comparing Nugent and Martin is folly. Nugent was surely selected a lot for his workrate ( it certainly wasn't his goals ) and there lies the difference. We also do not know of Martin's personality and the influence whether positive or negative in and around the squad. Hull and Reading didn't appear to get a tune out of him and very much doubt he'll play for us again....he was good for us a few seasons ago now but its the past...let it go Possibly the worst piece of business we have done was giving him another contract...Thanks for some good memories Chris but time to move on for both parties...hopefully No the worse part of the deal was bringing him back and then employing a manager who didn't have a clue...it would have been very different if we had retained Mac and we would probably have seen Martin flourish again..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: No the worse part of the deal was bringing him back and then employing a manager who didn't have a clue...it would have been very different if we had retained Mac and we would probably have seen Martin flourish again..... That didn't help you're right and Mel is partly to blame as well for sanctioning it but there was no guarantee Martin was going to flourish under Mac2 and contract was far too long...he may well see out Franks tenure here without playing a game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Saity said: That didn't help you're right and Mel is partly to blame as well for sanctioning it but there was no guarantee Martin was going to flourish under Mac2 and contract was far too long...he may well see out Franks tenure here without playing a game Well just think how much he's bought into the Club in loan fees if that will make you feel better. Ignore the facr he's been seriously ill both at Reading and recovering at Hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Well just think how much he's bought into the Club in loan fees if that will make you feel better. Ignore the facr he's been seriously ill both at Reading and recovering at Hull. it doesn't don't worry thats why we gave him a big long contract so he can get us a few loan fees ....if he's deemed fit enough to go on loan to Hull I'd say he's fit enough to play for us but he wasn't in Franks plans thats the point Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Saity said: ..if he's deemed fit enough to go on loan to Hull I'd say he's fit enough to play for us ... Players go on loan to other clubs to get fit, it happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said: Players go on loan to other clubs to get fit, it happens all the time. so you seriously think Chris was sent on loan to get fit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Saity said: so you seriously think Chris was sent on loan to get fit ? Well he wasn't going to get fit here, well no more than in the 23s, so why not get a fee to offset his wages was I imagine the thinking. If he'd been fit then we might have seen him instead of Nugent - I bet they're on similar wages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S8TY Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Well he wasn't going to get fit here, well no more than in the 23s, so why not get a fee to offset his wages was I imagine the thinking. If he'd been fit then we might have seen him instead of Nugent - I bet they're on similar wages. I don't think we would've seen him instead of Nugent to be honest Roy ....Nugent is a totally different player to CM....Nugent was surely selected for his work rate and Chris is a totally different type of player and not in Franks plans...it happens...wages is neither here nor there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Can't we take this thread out the back and put a bullet through its head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, RoyMac5 said: Well just think how much he's bought into the Club in loan fees if that will make you feel better. Ignore the facr he's been seriously ill both at Reading and recovering at Hull. Are clubs going to take on loan and keep on loan a seriously ill player ? From what I have seen players in that situation have their loan spells terminated, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 47 minutes ago, Saity said: I don't think we would've seen him instead of Nugent to be honest Roy ....Nugent is a totally different player to CM....Nugent was surely selected for his work rate and Chris is a totally different type of player and not in Franks plans...it happens...wages is neither here nor there Except when Nugent was brought on as sub before Marriott Frank said it was for his hold-up play and such (can't remember exact phrase). Well Martin is surely better than Nuge at hold-up play, aerial combativeness etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 43 minutes ago, AndyinLiverpool said: Can't we take this thread out the back and put a bullet through its head? Not while Martin is still a Derby player, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not while Martin is still a Derby player, no. There's a top tip here for the anti Martin brigade...if you see his name on a topic,don't click on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 5 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: There's a top tip here for the anti Martin brigade...if you see his name on a topic,don't click on it. Thought it was a Chris Martin to replace nugent topic/ question with those who would like that stating as much and their reasons why and those of the opposite opinion arguing the case against? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Saity said: so you seriously think Chris was sent on loan to get fit ? I would suggest that it was likely that there was an element of that in Frank's decision....but who knows? Frank brought in waghorn who is very much in Martin's likeness...a strong hold up player with a keen eye for distribution and the goal do to suggest that Martin isnt the type of player who the boss wants wouldn't be entirely true. The proof in the pudding will be pre season and how Martin performs and how he gels with the new group.If he can match or better waghorn and fits in with the new dynamic then I'm sure that Frank will see that and utilise him come the new season. .after all he's s player that's already paid for so why not make use? If he doesn't fit in for whatever reason,I'd suggest another loan is likely....perhaps even a drop to league 1 to showcase his talents again....surely Burton under Nigel Clough would be an ideal fit there,if they could afford it. So let's wait and see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 12 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: There's a top tip here for the anti Martin brigade...if you see his name on a topic,don't click on it. To be fair I don’t think you will find many fans that are “anti Martin”, just some that whilst be thankful for his time at the club don’t see a future for him here. Martin has only really divided opinions since he first left on loan and this “brigade” nonsense started, if you don’t want him playing you must not like him, that’s not the case at all no matter how many times you say it. After bringing in Waghorn and Marriott last summer it’s understand why some do not see a future for him at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, Archied said: Thought it was a Chris Martin to replace nugent topic/ question with those who would like that stating as much and their reasons why and those of the opposite opinion arguing the case against? Hardly about you Archied,I hadn't included yourself in that group as Ive previously considered thst you were more open minded on the matter. It's about those that take the effort to come on here and post that it's not worth posting on (as such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyinLiverpool Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 32 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said: Not while Martin is still a Derby player, no. So can we take Chris Martin out...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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