Sparkle Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 57 minutes ago, Archied said: Nugent scored a fair few for his teams when he was at his best too Sure did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyPowell Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Sparkle said: Did they try to give him the ball? I have no idea but did others score any goals while he was playing ? Also out of interest how many minutes did Nugent play for his for his 2 goals ? so would a team be given instructions to NOT t pass to a particular team mate.Of course they did,That is why Derby need an improvement on Nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Sparkle said: Did they try to give him the ball? I have no idea but did others score any goals while he was playing ? Also out of interest how many minutes did Nugent play for his for his 2 goals ? Hull scored 66 goals, only 3 less than Rams. So yes others were scoring goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRam Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 On 08/06/2019 at 13:29, Sparkle said: Did they try to give him the ball? I have no idea but did others score any goals while he was playing ? Also out of interest how many minutes did Nugent play for his for his 2 goals ? Along side his two goals, Martin registered one assist. And according to the much maligned "Key Passes" stat, he created one chance every 2 games. I'm not one to completely write him off for us (although I'm pretty nonplussed either way), but there really is no salvaging his time at Hull; he's been woeful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 36 minutes ago, SaintRam said: Along side his two goals, Martin registered one assist. And according to the much maligned "Key Passes" stat, he created one chance every 2 games. I'm not one to completely write him off for us (although I'm pretty nonplussed either way), but there really is no salvaging his time at Hull; he's been woeful. Fair enough- but if he can’t move on next season and we still have him then we should use him as is appropriate ( depending what kind of team we end up with) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 On 08/06/2019 at 14:04, Archied said: Nugent scored a fair few for his teams when he was at his best too I disagree. At his best he was in championship and was not prolific ( 1 in 3 means 15 goals if playing all 46 games ) His assist record is awful too. 13 assists in 132 games for us and Boro Preston - 107 games, 35 goals Portsmouth - 93 games, 20 goals Burnley - 20 games, 6 goals 2011-15 : Leicester - 180 games, 59 goals Then least said the better. Boro - 44 games, 9 goals Derby - 88 games, 17 goals How we paid £1.5m I will never know. Not in Boro team for a very good reason. Anyway, got that off my chest. And hopefully it shows he never was prolific. I've excluded his England appearance ....god he did indeed play for England. Some players have a career based on hope, false impressions and promise and no little effort. Nugent had all the above in abundance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 13 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: I disagree. At his best he was in championship and was not prolific ( 1 in 3 means 15 goals if playing all 46 games ) His assist record is awful too. 13 assists in 132 games for us and Boro Preston - 107 games, 35 goals Portsmouth - 93 games, 20 goals Burnley - 20 games, 6 goals 2011-15 : Leicester - 180 games, 59 goals Then least said the better. Boro - 44 games, 9 goals Derby - 88 games, 17 goals How we paid £1.5m I will never know. Not in Boro team for a very good reason. Anyway, got that off my chest. And hopefully it shows he never was prolific. I've excluded his England appearance ....god he did indeed play for England. Some players have a career based on hope, false impressions and promise and no little effort. Nugent had all the above in abundance. Yep beats me how Martin hasn’t played for england Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: I disagree. At his best he was in championship and was not prolific ( 1 in 3 means 15 goals if playing all 46 games ) His assist record is awful too. 13 assists in 132 games for us and Boro Preston - 107 games, 35 goals Portsmouth - 93 games, 20 goals Burnley - 20 games, 6 goals 2011-15 : Leicester - 180 games, 59 goals Then least said the better. Boro - 44 games, 9 goals Derby - 88 games, 17 goals How we paid £1.5m I will never know. Not in Boro team for a very good reason. Anyway, got that off my chest. And hopefully it shows he never was prolific. I've excluded his England appearance ....god he did indeed play for England. Some players have a career based on hope, false impressions and promise and no little effort. Nugent had all the above in abundance. He wasn't,I agree though he did score some great goals two seasons ago and he linked up very well with vydra under rowetts system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Archied said: Yep beats me how Martin hasn’t played for england Played competitive games for Scotland at his peak ...... against England too ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramkesian Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Several years ago I needed a new car, only had a limited budget so even though I'd never been in one I bought a 03 plate rover 75. I feel in love with it straight away, and for the first couple of years it served me well. But I then started to have issues, had to replace suspension in all four corners, had water leak in boot, needed welding on 3 jacking points. Eventually it was costing me more to get it through the MOT than it was worth so decided to get newer vehicle. Now I own a 64 plate insignia, it's faster, economical, cheaper tax and better equipped. Do I miss the rover, hell yes, I miss the comfort, I miss being able to tinker with things, I miss knowing nobody would even think about stealing it off my drive. Would I have the rover back, hell no. I love the insignia's speed, the fuel economy, the turning the ignition key and not worrying a warning light will light up on the dash board. Chris Martin is my rover, great value, great memories and easy to make excuses to fork out to get through an MOT, but, it's now time to move on to a newer model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said: He wasn't,I agree though he did score some great goals two seasons ago and he linked up very well with vydra under rowetts system. Tell me more.......I'm intrigued to know if there was a system. Pretty sure Rowett would like to know what in earth his system was, other than painful ?? For and Nuge decent strike I'd raise you x3 with Chris's goals That said Chris too is done as a top end championship player which is a crying shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Ramkesian said: Chris Martin is my rover, great value, great memories and easy to make excuses to fork out to get through an MOT, but, it's now time to move on to a newer model. Just let's hope not an inferior model though ala Nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewe Ram Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 This is like thinking about my first boyfriend. When I think about him he’s 16, tall, good looking and great to be with. The reality is that he’s now late 50’s, bald and married - so busy making some woman miserable. Never look back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, Igorlegend11 said: At his best he was in championship and was not prolific ( 1 in 3 means 15 goals if playing all 46 games ) His assist record is awful too. 13 assists in 132 games for us and Boro Nugent at his best was in 13/14, scored 20 goals and 12 assists in 3609 minutes of football. Goal in every 180 minutes. Assist in every 300 minutes. 13/14 was also Chris Martin’s best season, scored 22 and 8 assists in 4060 minutes. Goal in every 184 minutes. Assist in every 507 minutes. ——————————————————————— 14/15 Nugent - 5 goals, 2 assists in 1705 minutes. Goal every 341 minutes. (Premier League) Martin - 18 goals, 3 assists in 2825 minutes. Goal every 156 minutes. 15/16 Nugent - 8 goals, 7 assists in 2266 minutes. Goal every 283 minutes. Martin - 15 goals, 10 assists in 3958 minutes. Goal every 263 minutes. 16/17 Nugent - 6 goals, 1 assist in 1029 minutes. Goal every 171 minutes. Martin - 10 goals, 2 assists in 2736 minutes. Goal every 273 minutes. 17/18 Nugent - 9 goals, 4 assists in 2370 minutes. Goal every 263 minutes. Martin - 2 goals, 1 assist in 1262 minutes. Goal every 631 minutes. 18/19 Nugent - 2 goals, 1 assist in 1198 minutes. Goal every 599 minutes. Martin - 2 goals, 1 assist in 1409 minutes. Goal every 704 minutes. ——————————————————————— Totals since and not including their best seasons in 13/14 Nugent - 30 goals, 15 assists in 8568 minutes. Goal every 285 minutes. Assist every 571 minutes. Martin - 47 goals, 17 assists in 12,190 minutes. Goal every 259 minutes. Assist every 717 minutes. ——————————————————————— Totals including their best season 13/14 Nugent - 50 goals, 27 assists in 12,177 minutes. Goal every 243 minutes. Assist every 451 minutes. Martin - 69 goals, 25 assists in 16,250 minutes. Goal every 235 minutes. Assist every 650 minutes. ——————————————————————— David’s thoughts, since their best seasons there isn’t much to pick between them in goals and assists. I like to look at minutes rather than games, you can clock a number of games up with 100 minutes worth of football which isn’t fair. Martin has played the equivalent of 45 more games than Nugent over the last 6 seasons. I don’t like the assist stat, it’s one of the most pointless in football as Martin could nutmeg on the entire team, turn back and nutmeg them again before sprinting down the wing, crossing a ball in for Keogh to head down into Johnny Russell’s path for a tap in. Martin gets nothing for that and Keogh clocks up the assist. Only reason I have mentioned them is the line that Nugent’s assists have been awful, when in fact over the last 6 seasons he’s assisted more goals in far less minutes than Martin. Again, assists are donkey doo doo. Martin may have played a key role in more games, but then Nugent’s work rate may have tired defenders more where mistakes were made later in the game when he went off and that’s why stats don’t always tell the full story, only part. Didn’t stop me spending the last half hour creating this though ? Oh, and yes I could have gone back further but I don’t think this would have done Martin any favours, wasn’t prolific himself until he arrived at Derby and whoscored.com where these stats are from only go back so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srg Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Sparkle said: Fair enough- but if he can’t move on next season and we still have him then we should use him as is appropriate ( depending what kind of team we end up with) Most likely appropriate use is to get rid, whether that be permanently or on loan, to assist us with FFP compliance (with the bonus side effect of ending the constant cries for Martin from the vocal minority). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 My main point about this debate is that whilst we still have Martin we should integrate him into our play at various times next season because he does know what he is doing and can be very effective with good players around who are attacking, I am not advocating starting every week but he can contribute over the season. His last two loans have been naff at Reading and Hull in certain ways but at Fulham they finished in the playoffs - if he goes on loan again or is released or is transferred then that is that but whilst we pay him then use him for the best of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igorlegend11 Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Sparkle said: My main point about this debate is that whilst we still have Martin we should integrate him into our play at various times next season because he does know what he is doing and can be very effective with good players around who are attacking, I am not advocating starting every week but he can contribute over the season. His last two loans have been naff at Reading and Hull in certain ways but at Fulham they finished in the playoffs - if he goes on loan again or is released or is transferred then that is that but whilst we pay him then use him for the best of him I get your point and ideally thats what would happen. However. .. .. I can't see Chris being an enthusiastic sub, can't see him warning up energetically and can't see him easily stepping into flow of a game after 70minutes. Which is all really sad.....whatever happened to Chris under Clement and then Pearson is a real waste. I was at the fatal game away at Bournemouth when he got Injured early on. He stayed in for a few minutes before having to come off. That single event more than anything in Feb 2015 has harmed our escape from the Championship. I'd like Chris to succeed elsewhere this next season on a permanent move, which unless we make an offer to pay up his contract is highly unlikely. Trying to extract him out of Fulham was a mistake with hindsight. A payrise and and a contact extension whilst not being able to play for us at the time nor since is a large mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 29 minutes ago, Sparkle said: My main point about this debate is that whilst we still have Martin we should integrate him into our play at various times next season because he does know what he is doing and can be very effective with good players around who are attacking, I am not advocating starting every week but he can contribute over the season. His last two loans have been naff at Reading and Hull in certain ways but at Fulham they finished in the playoffs - if he goes on loan again or is released or is transferred then that is that but whilst we pay him then use him for the best of him Leaving all personal opinions out of this Martin is probably 4th choice at the club now for Lampard, behind Waghorn, Marriott and Bennett. Do you think Martin would be happy with that, willing to wait for a few minutes here and there if we pick up injuries/suspensions? At worst last season he was 5th choice behind Nugent and chose to go out on loan to get games, I don’t see Nugent’s departure increasing the percentage of game time for Martin, not with Marriott have a full pre season behind him. I also don’t see Lampard thought process being let Nugent leave because we have Martin coming back as 4th choice. I honestly don’t see Martin being here this season, my guess he will either go out on loan or we will let him leave on a free, possibly covering a percentage of his wages still for this season which would be his last under contract. This would also be best for him personally and his career, he’s 30 now, and as you say hasn’t done much at Reading and Hull, a season now at Derby twiddling thumbs and playing the odd academy game as the overage player would do him no favours come next summer when he’s a free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archied Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, Sparkle said: My main point about this debate is that whilst we still have Martin we should integrate him into our play at various times next season because he does know what he is doing and can be very effective with good players around who are attacking, I am not advocating starting every week but he can contribute over the season. His last two loans have been naff at Reading and Hull in certain ways but at Fulham they finished in the playoffs - if he goes on loan again or is released or is transferred then that is that but whilst we pay him then use him for the best of him Look I’m totally with you on respect what Martin has been for us in the past but if the manager just does not rate him or have him in his plans there really is no point trying to integrate him into our play at various times ,you can’t just parachute him into the team now and again ,he has to be part of the first team squad , training with the first team squad , it has been remarked on just how much of a bond this first team squad has built under lampard this season so if lampard doesn’t feel Martin fits that there is no point whatsoever trying to integrate Martin for the sake of the odd few games just because he is under contract , could do more harm than good we should respect Martin for his time at Derby but say thanks and let the lad move on as apart from mac2s mad moment it’s been clear for a long time that his time at Derby was over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Igorlegend11 said: Tell me more.......I'm intrigued to know if there was a system. Pretty sure Rowett would like to know what in earth his system was, other than painful ?? For and Nuge decent strike I'd raise you x3 with Chris's goals That said Chris too is done as a top end championship player which is a crying shame No need to big up Martin's quality goalscoring ability to me Igor,I'm fully in agreement. I don't know if Chrissie is done as a top end championship player however...he hasnt been playing in a suitable system of late so it's hard to tell (see my previous post on vydra,who surely hasn't become a crap striker in one season).I'd like to think that as he should be fully fit this time around (and not suffering severe stomach issues as last year) that lampard will give him a fair hearing pre season. Back to nuge,I liked him (he came into the squad,don't forget because Mac couldnt get Martin back from Fulham) but he had definitely turned the corner in terms of age.....a good servant to the club however and a great wind up merchant to the opposition team and fans which I always liked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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