The Politics Thread 2019

[alexxxxx]

2 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

But are they ? As I understand it the student debt is not recognized on the government books/debt. It stands at around £125bn and is planned to reach £450bn by the middle of this century. to put in context, the NHS budget is around £130bn.

Generation rent/snowflakes/millenials call them what you like have been sold down the river but because it does not affect the books and they don't really vote en masse, the politicians mention it to get a few votes but in the whole ignore them. 

Rent/Loans/Brexit mess for years to come/Environment/Pensions at the age of 70/etc...kids deserve a lot better.

 

 

this changed slightly... ONS said last year a proportion of the debt should be counted as government spending because it cannot be considered that all of it would be repaid.

the explanation of it is here: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/student-loans-ons-changes-accounting-rules/

 

 

[G STAR RAM]

 

Seriously, these politicians really arent grasping the fact that the every day person on the street is sick of these stupid lies.

#DRAINTHESWAMP

[WhiteHorseRam]

21 hours ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

Apparently it is theoretically possible, but blokes don't have a womb so the placenta would have to dock on somewhere else which would be dangerous. The baby would have to grow somewhere else in the body and be cut out at birth, which is not good for the bloke or the baby. Don't fancy trying it myself.

Thanks for the update … and there's me umming and arring about getting a tattoo!  ?

[WhiteHorseRam]

@G STAR RAM ……. #DRAINTHESWAMP …. what's your definition?

[WhiteHorseRam]

20 hours ago, GboroRam said:

I wanted to respond to this earlier but I forgot.

I hope that enough people have had enough questions put to them that the question why anyone would vote Conservative. Apart from the empty soundbite "get Brexit done" they stand for nothing and caused all the problems we face today. They are led by an untrustable liar.

Get Brexit done. What a mindless slogan that is. Doesn't matter how, or with what quality of outcome, we're bored so lets get it done.

Swap "Brexit" for "vasectomy". I've been waiting ages and I just want vasectomy done. I don't care who does it, or how, or with what qualifications or experience, or whether they do a good job or not, or the amount of pain I'm going to suffer afterwards. Just get vasectomy done.

Jesus wept.

I just hope that everyone who can vote …. votes …. regardless of who they vote for.

You can see from what has just happened in Hong Kong how precious the right to vote is.

[Stive Pesley]

11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

Seriously, these politicians really arent grasping the fact that the every day person on the street is sick of these stupid lies.

#DRAINTHESWAMP

Well she's standing down as an MP at this election, so that's one less idiot. She claims she is standing down because she gets too much abuse, but good grief - does she not deserve some comeback for that sort of nonsense in the video?

I can't really have a problem with people who don't want to vote Labour because they think the policies are unrealistic or unaffordable, at least that's a proper thought process and a conclusion

But how does anyone vote Tory when they go on TV and blatantly lie, and then when called out on the lies, double down and refuse to correct the lie

[TuffLuff]

22 hours ago, DarkFruitsRam7 said:

I'm closer to the left than I am to the right, and I'm going to vote Labour in this election. That's mainly because their general principles align closest with my personal moral view of the world. 

However, as a student, I can confidently say that the pledge to abolish tuition fees is an absolute joke. The current system is good, as everyone essentially gets free education until they earn enough (£25,725 salary) to start paying it off. All unpaid debt is wiped off after 30 years if it hasn't been paid during that time.

I'm not attacking the concept of free tuition in itself. It's just that there are far more pressing issues for aspiring university students from poorer backgrounds. Tuition fees don't prevent anyone from attending uni, for the reasons outlined above. What does prevent those from poorer backgrounds from going into higher education is the cost of living. Whilst maintenance loans are given, they sometimes don't cover all of rent, food, textbooks, some socialising, etc. The money spent on abolishing tuition fees would be far better directed at increasing maintenance loans or subsidising student housing. 

If the Labour Party want to make a genuine difference to the lives of poor people aspiring to better themselves, they should stop with the eye-catching policies and direct the money where it truly matters.

I fully get your point here and largely agree with it but I think free tuition fees has some good knock on effects. 

When I was at university (roughly 10 years ago and at Nottingham Trent, for context) personally I was surprised how many people I met were from the local vicinity, from comfortable backgrounds and were more than happy to essentially doss their way to a 2:2 degree and slid into office work after finishing up (or at least attempting to, looking back a lot dropped out and try different courses too). Most of the time those jobs don’t need degrees, it just because it looks good on the cv. That’s not a knock on those people by the way as I now work in an area completely unrelated to my degree so I’m in the same group, albeit with a different route.

What free tuition fees will naturally bring in is a more strict system of accepting people in the first place so it’s purely based on results rather then your background. It’s not perfect but I do think it’s a more productive system.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

14 hours ago, maxjam said:

So I'm missing something here... you work in a factory and a machine has condensed 40 hours work into much less - therefore you now either work a lot less than 40hr/week and earn significantly less or your employer has got used to your new rates of output? 

Whatever, the original question I was replying to was the 4 day week will reduce our carbon footprint to achieve that businesses will have to shut 1 day a week.  Not sure thats gonna happen, a lot of places won't take a 20% hit in output and a lot of places can't (NHS etc)

In Germany, car washes are highly automated, all-singing, all-dancing pieces of machinery that are very efficient. They are built by highly educated, well-paid mechanical engineers who use their salaries to buy things and stimulate the rest of the economy.

In Britain, car washes consist of a couple of immigrants, a bucket and a rag.

Britain is becoming a low-wage, low-skill and low-productivity economy that has much lower levels of investment. Brexit will only make things worse by putting up barriers to trade with our closest neighbours. Britain is on its way to becoming a sweatshop and no amount of post-imperial delusions will help.

I admit a four-day week might be pushing it a bit, but the increase in productivity that can be gained by boosting skills and investment might make it possible to cut overtime. Britain has the longest working hours in Europe.

[maxjam]

2 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

In Germany, car washes are highly automated, all-singing, all-dancing pieces of machinery that are very efficient. They are built by highly educated, well-paid mechanical engineers who use their salaries to buy things and stimulate the rest of the economy.

Not everyone has the capability to be highly educated though.  There is always going to be a CAD operator designing 21st century car washes and a bloke with a bucket of water and a rag.

 

4 minutes ago, A Ram for All Seasons said:

I admit a four-day week might be pushing it a bit, but the increase in productivity that can be gained by boosting skills and investment might make it possible to cut overtime. Britain has the longest working hours in Europe.

Re. the 4 day week, in principle I think its a good idea - more time off, less stress etc.  Making it mandatory however is where I have my problem.  Not every place of work can improve productivity by 20% or afford to pay people 5 days work for 4.  

My original reply which has kinda been forgotten was one of the 4 day week reducing our carbon footprint anyway.  Lots of places can't not have staff come into work (NHS etc) and lots of other places won't cut production, they will just have to employ more people to fill the hours in the week. 

[maxjam]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

But how does anyone vote Tory when they go on TV and blatantly lie, and then when called out on the lies, double down and refuse to correct the lie

Thats the same for all parties though, they all lie and spin, they all have their racists and people woefully incompetent at their jobs.  Blaming one party whilst giving another a free pass or subjecting it to less scrutiny just exposes your political bias.  

My biggest hope for this election is that one party gets an outright majority enabling them to actually get something done.  Obviously I have my preferences and concerns but at this point I'd be happy for any party to simply get a majority and deal with the consequences at the end of their 5 years.

[Spanish]

1 hour ago, SchtivePesley said:

Well she's standing down as an MP at this election, so that's one less idiot. She claims she is standing down because she gets too much abuse, but good grief - does she not deserve some comeback for that sort of nonsense in the video?

I can't really have a problem with people who don't want to vote Labour because they think the policies are unrealistic or unaffordable, at least that's a proper thought process and a conclusion

But how does anyone vote Tory when they go on TV and blatantly lie, and then when called out on the lies, double down and refuse to correct the lie

ah it's a cunning plan, if she now stays then she will be an extra Tory MP

[G STAR RAM]

1 hour ago, WhiteHorseRam said:

@G STAR RAM ……. #DRAINTHESWAMP …. what's your definition?

It's a tough one because I think if we went as far as I want there would be no politicians left.

 

[Ghost of Clough]

15 hours ago, maxjam said:

So I'm missing something here... you work in a factory and a machine has condensed 40 hours work into much less - therefore you now either work a lot less than 40hr/week and earn significantly less or your employer has got used to your new rates of output? 

Whatever, the original question I was replying to was the 4 day week will reduce our carbon footprint to achieve that businesses will have to shut 1 day a week.  Not sure thats gonna happen, a lot of places won't take a 20% hit in output and a lot of places can't (NHS etc)

More likely to see hours condensed into 4 days. 4 10 hour days instead of 5 8 hour days. 

[Stive Pesley]

48 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats the same for all parties though, they all lie and spin, they all have their racists and people woefully incompetent at their jobs.  Blaming one party whilst giving another a free pass or subjecting it to less scrutiny just exposes your political bias. 

You're missing my point though. Spin is nothing new and yes, it happens on both sides - I will put aside my political bias for a moment and admit that

What I'm trying to get across is that the current Tory party under Johnson seem to have taken it to a whole new level - can't you put aside your political bias for a moment and admit that you see that?

[maxjam]

7 minutes ago, SchtivePesley said:

You're missing my point though. Spin is nothing new and yes, it happens on both sides - I will put aside my political bias for a moment and admit that

What I'm trying to get across is that the current Tory party under Johnson seem to have taken it to a whole new level - can't you put aside your political bias for a moment and admit that you see that?

You're assuming I'm voting Tory?  

Johnson and his racist comments, Diane Abbott and her racist comments.

Tories and their islamophobia, Labour and their anti-semitism.

Russian Tory money, Labour friendly with known terrorists.

Tory lies, Labour lies.

In some areas the Tories are worse than Labour, in others Labour are worse than the Tories.  In a race to the bottom is about neck and neck imo.

[A Ram for All Seasons]

2 hours ago, SchtivePesley said:

But how does anyone vote Tory when they go on TV and blatantly lie, and then when called out on the lies, double down and refuse to correct the lie

The right seem to lap it up. Trump tells one brazen lie after the other, but his supporters absolutely love being lied to. Telling lies seems to be a mark of virility among far-right politicians, like seeing who can pee the highest.

[rammieib]

5 hours ago, EtoileSportiveDeDerby said:

But are they ? As I understand it the student debt is not recognized on the government books/debt. It stands at around £125bn and is planned to reach £450bn by the middle of this century. to put in context, the NHS budget is around £130bn.

Generation rent/snowflakes/millenials call them what you like have been sold down the river but because it does not affect the books and they don't really vote en masse, the politicians mention it to get a few votes but in the whole ignore them. 

Rent/Loans/Brexit mess for years to come/Environment/Pensions at the age of 70/etc...kids deserve a lot better.

 

 

Books or no books - someone is putting the money up.

[Highgate]

58 minutes ago, maxjam said:

Thats the same for all parties though, they all lie and spin, they all have their racists and people woefully incompetent at their jobs.  Blaming one party whilst giving another a free pass or subjecting it to less scrutiny just exposes your political bias.  

My biggest hope for this election is that one party gets an outright majority enabling them to actually get something done.  Obviously I have my preferences and concerns but at this point I'd be happy for any party to simply get a majority and deal with the consequences at the end of their 5 years.

There is no reason to assume that all parties lie to the same extent.  It would be very unusual if that were the case.  But this notion is often bandied about as if it were some sort of truism.  It's often used as a way of excusing the lies of a particular party or candidate by  claiming... 'Well they are all it...that's politicians for you, what can you do?'

Yes everyone knows that politicians, everywhere. spin and accentuate the positive as much as they can. but the claim that they are all always equally dishonest is something that should be avoided in my opinion.  It almost as if the suggestion is to give up on trying to evaluate parties or candidates' trustworthiness altogether.

Trump for example takes lying and misinformation (in a democracy) to a whole new level, there has been nothing quite like him in my memory.  Johnson too, is transparently dishonest and it's simply not accurate to say that all politicians are just as untrustworthy as those two chancers.  If we do believe that, and believe that is always going to be the case....then why are we even bothering with democracy at all, it's time to pack it in and try something else.

[maxjam]

21 minutes ago, Highgate said:

There is no reason to assume that all parties lie to the same extent.  It would be very unusual if that were the case.  But this notion is often bandied about as if it were some sort of truism.  It's often used as a way of excusing the lies of a particular party or candidate by  claiming... 'Well they are all it...that's politicians for you, what can you do?'

I take both yours and @SchtivePesley point but don't take it in isolation.  Parties lie to varying degrees, are racist to varying degrees, cosy up to terrorists or take foreign money to varying degrees, have lurched to the left or right in varying degrees. 

I'm with @G STAR RAM on this one, drain the swamp and get rid of almost all current MPs and find a new method of electing public officials - people that will actually work for their constituents and not worry about their long-term careers and feathering their own nests.

[Ghost of Clough]

2 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

I fully get your point here and largely agree with it but I think free tuition fees has some good knock on effects. 

When I was at university (roughly 10 years ago and at Nottingham Trent, for context) personally I was surprised how many people I met were from the local vicinity, from comfortable backgrounds and were more than happy to essentially doss their way to a 2:2 degree and slid into office work after finishing up (or at least attempting to, looking back a lot dropped out and try different courses too). Most of the time those jobs don’t need degrees, it just because it looks good on the cv. That’s not a knock on those people by the way as I now work in an area completely unrelated to my degree so I’m in the same group, albeit with a different route.

What free tuition fees will naturally bring in is a more strict system of accepting people in the first place so it’s purely based on results rather then your background. It’s not perfect but I do think it’s a more productive system.

I don't understand how removing a restriction (financial) would result in Universities being more strict in who they accept