A Cautionary Tale

[Bob The Badger]

I was ambivalent about hiring Frank. I really had no opinion because he had no track record so what could I base an opinion on?

There are a legion of high-quality ex-players who failed in management from Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton through to Roy Keene and Gazza with dozens in between.

I started to think it was a good signing when we took it to clubs like Man Utd and Chelsea and brushed West Brom and Norwich aside.

I knew it wouldn't be a smooth ride because the path to success never is, but we seemed to be on our way.

Things have gone south since and Frank doesn't seem to know his best team or his best formation. It reminds me of the Cox era with Kitson, Johnson, and Gabbiadini. Arthur was frequently tinkering and so is Frank.

However, Frank is (hopefully) learning and this season was always going to be about that. He made the 'mistake' the Snake made in as much as he raised expectations that he's struggling to maintain. 

Teams have a lot of tape on Derby now and they know how to play them. So it's up to the management team to make sure they can adapt. That may take an off-season and I'm totally fine with that.

In 1990 Man Utd were playing at the City Ground against the red dogs in the 6th round of the FA Cup. A second half goal by Mark Robbins and a Forest disallowed goal very late on put Utd through and they went on to win the cup.

Martin Edwards (United Chairman at the time) has said many times since that if they had lost Alex Ferguson would have been sacked.

Was that Ferguson's first season? Nope

Was it his second then? Nope

It was his third. He'd won nothing and was widely disliked by United fans, some of whom hung banners demanding his removal.

I still have little clue as to Frank's abilities as a manager, but neither does anybody else.

Calling for his sacking now is not just ridiculous because he hasn't even completed a full season as a manager, but dangerous.

Managers know you don't build teams overnight. Our knee-jerk record of firing managers first and thinking about it later since Nigel Clough, means that no manager worth his salt and wanting to build something sustainable will look twice at us.

FL has to be given at least until the end of next season with no fear whatsoever of losing his job. I don't care what happens (well I do really, but you know what I mean), let him manage from a place of doing what he thinks is right and not trying to appease the fans and Board. Or run the risk of seeing him succeed elsewhere as we continue with this ridiculous merry-go-round.

 

[RoyMac5]

1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

Martin Edwards (United Chairman at the time) has said many times since that if they had lost Alex Ferguson would have been sacked.

Was that Ferguson's first season? Nope

Was it his second then? Nope

It was his third. He'd won nothing and was widely disliked by United fans, some of whom hung banners demanding his removal.

Sorry but it wasn't like they didn't know that Fergie could win things was it? He was no rookie. We have no idea how Lampard will turn out and all the analogies with Clough and Ferguson are just silly.

[Bob The Badger]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sorry but it wasn't like they didn't know that Fergie could win things was it? He was no rookie. We have no idea how Lampard will turn out and all the analogies with Clough and Ferguson are just silly.

I never made an analogy with Clough.

I'll tell you what's silly though. Your inability to see more than one analogy in any given situation.

 

[Mostyn6]

I'd like to see him show enough improvement and development in his own management to earn the right to be given a few years. 

I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Lampard has bought 12 new players into the club, promote a youth player, re-integrate 2 exiled players, but still end up relying on Keogh, Bryson, Huddlestone and Nugent as much as we have.

Keogh needs rest, and to have him playing every minute of every game is shocking.

[Mucker1884]

21 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

Sorry but it wasn't like they didn't know that Fergie could win things was it? 

But they didn't KNOW that he could win things in England... with Man Utd... in the future!  All they KNEW, was what he had achieved previously, at a much lower level. 

They KNEW no more that day, than we do here and now.

 

So I'm with the OP... Let's try a new tactic, and give the gaffer some bloody time!

[BaaLocks]

8 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

Your inability to see more than one analogy in any given situation.

Not only is it like not being able to see the wood for the trees but it's also like not being able to see your nose in front of your face....

[RoyMac5]

11 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I never made an analogy with Clough.

I'll tell you what's silly though. Your inability to see more than one analogy in any given situation.

I didn't say you did. There's more than you posting silly analogies atm. 

[nogbad van 50]

35 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I was ambivalent about hiring Frank. I really had no opinion because he had no track record so what could I base an opinion on?

There are a legion of high-quality ex-players who failed in management from Bobby Moore and Bobby Charlton through to Roy Keene and Gazza with dozens in between.

I started to think it was a good signing when we took it to clubs like Man Utd and Chelsea and brushed West Brom and Norwich aside.

I knew it wouldn't be a smooth ride because the path to success never is, but we seemed to be on our way.

Things have gone south since and Frank doesn't seem to know his best team or his best formation. It reminds me of the Cox era with Kitson, Johnson, and Gabbiadini. Arthur was frequently tinkering and so is Frank.

However, Frank is (hopefully) learning and this season was always going to be about that. He made the 'mistake' the Snake made in as much as he raised expectations that he's struggling to maintain. 

Teams have a lot of tape on Derby now and they know how to play them. So it's up to the management team to make sure they can adapt. That may take an off-season and I'm totally fine with that.

In 1990 Man Utd were playing at the City Ground against the red dogs in the 6th round of the FA Cup. A second half goal by Mark Robbins and a Forest disallowed goal very late on put Utd through and they went on to win the cup.

Martin Edwards (United Chairman at the time) has said many times since that if they had lost Alex Ferguson would have been sacked.

Was that Ferguson's first season? Nope

Was it his second then? Nope

It was his third. He'd won nothing and was widely disliked by United fans, some of whom hung banners demanding his removal.

I still have little clue as to Frank's abilities as a manager, but neither does anybody else.

Calling for his sacking now is not just ridiculous because he hasn't even completed a full season as a manager, but dangerous.

Managers know you don't build teams overnight. Our knee-jerk record of firing managers first and thinking about it later since Nigel Clough, means that no manager worth his salt and wanting to build something sustainable will look twice at us.

FL has to be given at least until the end of next season with no fear whatsoever of losing his job. I don't care what happens (well I do really, but you know what I mean), let him manage from a place of doing what he thinks is right and not trying to appease the fans and Board. Or run the risk of seeing him succeed elsewhere as we continue with this ridiculous merry-go-round.

 

This has to be one of my all-time favourite posts on the forums.Well said that man!?

[RoyMac5]

6 minutes ago, Mucker1884 said:

But they didn't KNOW that he could win things in England... with Man Utd... in the future!  All they KNEW, was what he had achieved previously, at a much lower level. 

They KNEW no more that day, than we do here and now.

Of course they did. They knew what Fergie had done, they hoped he'd be able to replicate it and they based that hope on his career as a manager to that point.

[Mucker1884]

1 minute ago, RoyMac5 said:

Of course they did. They knew what Fergie had done, they hoped he'd be able to replicate it and they based that hope on his career as a manager to that point.

That's what I said... They couldn't see into the future, just as we can't today.

All they had at that point, was hope... just as we have today!

 

Good to see two posters in agreement for a change.  Consider yersen a mate.  Cheers!

[TommyPowell]

18 minutes ago, RoyMac5 said:

I didn't say you did. There's more than you posting silly analogies atm. 

theres also i few biased opinions flying about from people who never seem to have posted when Lampard has enjoyed a successful run i wonder why that is?

[Gaspode]

7 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

theres also i few biased opinions flying about from people who never seem to have posted when Lampard has enjoyed a successful run i wonder why that is?

I could tell you, but then I'd  get a lifetime ban from the forum - though I'm thinking of banning myself after sifting through the mountains of negativity on display today....I really have got better things to do....

[RoyMac5]

18 minutes ago, TommyPowel said:

theres also i few biased opinions flying about from people who never seem to have posted when Lampard has enjoyed a successful run i wonder why that is?

Because few Derby fans enjoy getting beat by F*rest in such a poor manner?

[Ellafella]

50 minutes ago, Moist One said:

I'd like to see him show enough improvement and development in his own management to earn the right to be given a few years. 

I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Lampard has bought 12 new players into the club, promote a youth player, re-integrate 2 exiled players, but still end up relying on Keogh, Bryson, Huddlestone and Nugent as much as we have.

Keogh needs rest, and to have him playing every minute of every game is shocking.

Good grief! And here I was thinking he was a highly physically fit, professional footballer in his early thirties who can run quicker than a butcher’s dog with the ball at his feet. And we’re making him play football matches for 90 minutes?! ?

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, Moist One said:

I'd like to see him show enough improvement and development in his own management to earn the right to be given a few years. 

I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Lampard has bought 12 new players into the club, promote a youth player, re-integrate 2 exiled players, but still end up relying on Keogh, Bryson, Huddlestone and Nugent as much as we have.

Keogh needs rest, and to have him playing every minute of every game is shocking.

Yet he is the one constant. 

[BathRam72]

1 hour ago, Bob The Badger said:

 

 

Are you trying to tell me that success looks a bit like a willy?

[AdamRam]

3 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Are you trying to tell me that success looks a bit like a willy?

I feel sorry for your missus if so ?

[Bob The Badger]

13 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Are you trying to tell me that success looks a bit like a willy?

No, but I am saying you should probably make an appointment with your doctor BEFORE you attempt to get your end away because it will be like putting a fishing hook in there.

[BathRam72]

11 minutes ago, AdamRam said:

I feel sorry for your missus if so ?

 

1 minute ago, Bob The Badger said:

No, but I am saying you should probably make an appointment with your doctor BEFORE you attempt to get your end away because it will be like putting a fishing hook in there.

I am wearing my glasses as my contacts needed changing

[Ambitious]

1 hour ago, Moist One said:

I'd like to see him show enough improvement and development in his own management to earn the right to be given a few years. 

I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Lampard has bought 12 new players into the club, promote a youth player, re-integrate 2 exiled players, but still end up relying on Keogh, Bryson, Huddlestone and Nugent as much as we have.

Keogh needs rest, and to have him playing every minute of every game is shocking.

Regardless, he's consistently our best player week in, week out. I know it's not ideal having a player play so often, but he's seemingly built differently from the rest as he's barely had a week off in his entire career. 

I wouldn't like to guess where we would be without him, although I doubt it would be as dramatic as the bottom three, no doubt we would be completely out the race for the play-offs and 10+ points worse off.