Are we seeing an improvement through coaching?

[Rev]

It's long been a cornerstone of the 'Derby Way' that we'd see an improvement of players through coaching, I just wonder if now is the first time we've seen evidence of such a policy taking affect?

Marriott for instance has been bought in gradually while coached in the background to seemingly great effect, Fozzy seems to have a new lease of life under the current management, as does his competition Malone, Bogle has come from nowhere, and Lawrence in particular seems a completely different player since his ban and gradual reintroduction into the team, much for the better I might add.

Have we finally landed on a management team that can not only select the best side, but also improve what we already have?

 

[Bald Eagle's Barmy Army]

Absolutely yes. 

You have to have good players but more importantly you need the correct coaching/management in place to pull it all together. 

Not just tactics but treating each player in a way you will get the most out of them. 

Most managers put a wall up between them and the players. Ours clearly have an arm around them or just treating them like a human being. 

[Gritstone Ram]

3 minutes ago, reveldevil said:

It's long been a cornerstone of the 'Derby Way' that we'd see an improvement of players through coaching, I just wonder if now is the first time we've seen evidence of such a policy taking affect?

Marriott for instance has been bought in gradually while coached in the background to seemingly great effect, Fozzy seems to have a new lease of life under the current management, as does his competition Malone, Bogle has come from nowhere, and Lawrence in particular seems a completely different player since his ban and gradual reintroduction into the team, much for the better I might add.

Have we finally landed on a management team that can not only select the best side, but also improve what we already have?

 

I have been saying this after hearing Darren Bent last week saying that the coaches actually want to coach. This must be coaching players to improve their performance. I suspect previous regimes haven’t done this. May be Mac 1 to a point.

[TigerTedd]

I was thinking about this today. Of the normal staring line up, everyone fit, we’ve potentially got Keogh, fozzy, Bryson, Bennett and (possibly) Bogle, that have all been here and available to pick for past managers over the past few seasons, been here since Clough. 

Add to that davies, huddlestone, Lawrence, Carson that snakey had available, and obviously used.

Thats 9 players I’ve named in a realistic starting line up, that could’ve also been a realistic starting line up last year (if snakey had chosen to go down that path and not loan Bryson out, like a tool).

So the players haven’t really changed (I know there’s been a decent amount of new signings, and they’re all getting good game time too, but you get my point). So it must be the coaching that’s changed. 

And that’s super impressive. 

Its also impressive how frank has integrated the new signings, and seems to be managing the first team squad really well, with everyone getting a decent amount of minutes now Holmes got his first full game today. 

Bravo I say. 

[Comrade 86]

Absobloominlutely! To a man he's improved the lot of them or at very least brought them back to something like their best in the case of some of the older lads. I know I'm sounding like a broken record now but huge kudos to Jody as well as Frank as your choice or wording implies. Frank says 'this is the style in which I want us to play' but it's Jody who has to coach the boys. Gushing maybe, but I think Frank and Jody are a managerial dreamteam. Some relatively high profile managers have tried and failed miserably to get us playing the way we are currently, indeed, only Stevie Mac could lay claim in recent times. This was a disjointed club with some internal 'fissures', a lack of spirit and quality, an aging squad and perhaps even one that contained one or two disruptive and divisive elements. Just look at them now. It's not just the mindset either as the style of football has neutrals positively falling over themselves to praise us as a side worth watching. The transformation is nothing short of miraculous and for once, I really don't have that sense that we're going to suddenly plummet of the edge of a cliff at any point. If we can continue to improve incrementally as we seem to be doing with every game, we can be at least as good a side as Wolves and Fulham were last year and streets ahead of Cardiff. 

[Steve How Hard?]

Definitely is the answer to the thread title. Bradley Johnson is a classic case of this for me. TH has been immense since he replaced him in the team but prior to that BJ was having a bit of a renaissance at CDM. Previously when he's played there it's fair to say that it hasn't gone too well. That for me points to better coaching into how to play that role. Also the fact that there is no longer talk of it taking 3/4 transfer windows to reshape this squad speaks volumes for how it's evolved so quickly. 

[wixman1884]

5 hours ago, 86 points said:

Gushing maybe, but I think Frank and Jody are a managerial dreamteam. Some relatively high profile managers have tried and failed miserably to get us playing the way we are currently, indeed, only Stevie Mac could lay claim in recent times. This was a disjointed club with some internal 'fissures', a lack of spirit and quality, an aging squad and perhaps even one that contained one or two disruptive and divisive elements.

This is an interesting point. I've been comparing this season a lot to 13/14 recently. Not to diminish Steve's accomplishment that season, but he was lucky enough to inherit a well knit team of hard workers at a club with low expectations and fairly low wages. In comparison, Frank has inherited an absolute mess. 

One big difference, is that I felt confident in 13/14 that Steve was getting the most out of the squad, especially during the playoff semis. I feel like right now we're barely starting to gel and are already cutting teams apart. I can't imagine what we'll see later in the season.

Whether we get promoted or not, and what happens if we do is irrelevant right now. We're in the ascendancy and everyone in the league wants to be us. For me this is as good as it gets and I'm enjoying every second. I'm drunk and immensely happy right now.

[Comrade 86]

1 hour ago, wixman1884 said:

This is an interesting point. I've been comparing this season a lot to 13/14 recently. Not to diminish Steve's accomplishment that season, but he was lucky enough to inherit a well knit team of hard workers at a club with low expectations and fairly low wages. In comparison, Frank has inherited an absolute mess. 

One big difference, is that I felt confident in 13/14 that Steve was getting the most out of the squad, especially during the playoff semis. I feel like right now we're barely starting to gel and are already cutting teams apart. I can't imagine what we'll see later in the season.

Whether we get promoted or not, and what happens if we do is irrelevant right now. We're in the ascendancy and everyone in the league wants to be us. For me this is as good as it gets and I'm enjoying every second. I'm drunk and immensely happy right now.

Genuinely glad to hear it fella. I agree completely with the points you make - there seems to be a lot of scope for further improvement which must be terrifying to other teams in the division but is an absolute joy to watch from a Derby perspective. I don't fully understand it as whilst much of the improvement is down to new, fresh, young, talented and hungry players, the senior squad members seem to be moving forwards too. Yes, clearly coaching plays its part but it's something more than that too. It's hard to explain really, but whatever the magic ingredient is, it's wonderful to be witnessing this great old club of ours come surging back to life. 

[Anag Ram]

It does seem that we are able to pass the ball at speed now and that must come come from training.

Not sure the defence was coached not to know their left foot from  their right on three occasions in two games mind you!?

What has been noticeable in the recent run is players finding space. That was what was so infuriating in the first half yesterday. 

When we play with tempo no-one can match us and I hope that  will be the message on the training ground throughout the season.

[RamNut]

On 3 November 2018 at 23:26, Steve How Hard? said:

Definitely is the answer to the thread title. Bradley Johnson is a classic case of this for me. TH has been immense since he replaced him in the team but prior to that BJ was having a bit of a renaissance at CDM. 

BJ seemed to be doing quite well although still prone to a bit of clumsiness. However when gibbo asked Frank if he had now settled on the trio of bryson, bj and mount, he was very quick to reject the suggestion.

looking at the games when BJ started, i was surprised to find that we hadn't actually done that well. 9 points from 8 games....

06-10-18Queens Park Rangers1 - 1Derby County1

03-10-18Derby County1 - 1Norwich City1

29-09-18Bolton Wanderers1 - 0Derby County1

22-09-18Derby County3 - 1Brentford1

18-09-18Derby County0 - 0Blackburn Rovers1

15-09-18Rotherham United1 - 0Derby County1

01-09-18Hull City1 - 2Derby County1

18-08-18Millwall2 - 1Derby County1

 

Pld 8 won 2 drawn 3 lost 3

 

[BathRam72]

50 minutes ago, RamNut said:

BJ seemed to be doing quite well although still prone to a bit of clumsiness. However when gibbo asked Frank if he had now settled on the trio of bryson, bj and mount, he was very quick to reject the suggestion.

looking at the games when BJ started, i was surprised to find that we hadn't actually done that well. 9 points from 8 games....

06-10-18Queens Park Rangers1 - 1Derby County1

03-10-18Derby County1 - 1Norwich City1

29-09-18Bolton Wanderers1 - 0Derby County1

22-09-18Derby County3 - 1Brentford1

18-09-18Derby County0 - 0Blackburn Rovers1

15-09-18Rotherham United1 - 0Derby County1

01-09-18Hull City1 - 2Derby County1

18-08-18Millwall2 - 1Derby County1

 

Pld 8 won 2 drawn 3 lost 3

 

Forgive me if I am missing something, but who are Derby County1? 

[RamNut]

12 minutes ago, BathRam72 said:

Forgive me if I am missing something, but who are Derby County1? 

Couldn't be @rsed to edit it out. You'll cope.

[BathRam72]

53 minutes ago, RamNut said:

Couldn't be @rsed to edit it out. You'll cope.

Surely it was more effort to put the 1 at the end every time than to delete.

[VulcanRam]

2 hours ago, RamNut said:

BJ seemed to be doing quite well although still prone to a bit of clumsiness. However when gibbo asked Frank if he had now settled on the trio of bryson, bj and mount, he was very quick to reject the suggestion.

looking at the games when BJ started, i was surprised to find that we hadn't actually done that well. 9 points from 8 games....

06-10-18Queens Park Rangers1 - 1Derby County1

03-10-18Derby County1 - 1Norwich City1

29-09-18Bolton Wanderers1 - 0Derby County1

22-09-18Derby County3 - 1Brentford1

18-09-18Derby County0 - 0Blackburn Rovers1

15-09-18Rotherham United1 - 0Derby County1

01-09-18Hull City1 - 2Derby County1

18-08-18Millwall2 - 1Derby County1

 

Pld 8 won 2 drawn 3 lost 3

 

An interesting stat, and forgive me but I think it needs contextualising a little, if only that at the start of the season Bradley looked like the Bradley we'd seen the last couple of seasons, but as he had a run in the team latterly (before being dropped for TH) he started to show real improvement, a much better understanding of the DM role and his passing was becoming much better.

I thought his last start - against QPR - he looked like a proper playmaker. 

So I think a far as he and the OP are concerned; yes he has definitely improved under the coaching of the current regime, but I think it's a latter improvement as opposed to starting the season having improved over the summer, like one or two others appear to have done. 

I'd add to that Lawrence and Forsyth, who weren't much better at the start of the season than they have been in previous ones, but have come on in recent weeks. 

And that can only be down to the coaching.

[Steve How Hard?]

4 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Forgive me if I am missing something, but who are Derby County1? 

The One and Only Derby surely? ?

[cheron85]

4 hours ago, BathRam72 said:

Forgive me if I am missing something, but who are Derby County1? 

 

4 hours ago, RamNut said:

Couldn't be @rsed to edit it out. You'll cope.

Referencing BJ shouldn't it be Derby City1 anyway?

[McRainy]

On 04/11/2018 at 05:26, wixman1884 said:

One big difference, is that I felt confident in 13/14 that Steve was getting the most out of the squad, especially during the playoff semis. I feel like right now we're barely starting to gel and are already cutting teams apart. I can't imagine what we'll see later in the season.

I was going to say Mac 1, but I think you're right, we were playing to the limit of our ability by the end of the season, and still got undone by a bunch of mercenaries under Redknapp. 

I don't know at what point it will seem that Frank and Jody have reached their limits, but I'm pretty sure it won't be a this level. The speed and trajectory of the improvement suggests that we're looking towards the top half of the prem at least, and the recent cup performances confirm that. 

[Rampage]

On 03/11/2018 at 22:14, reveldevil said:

It's long been a cornerstone of the 'Derby Way' that we'd see an improvement of players through coaching, I just wonder if now is the first time we've seen evidence of such a policy taking affect?

Marriott for instance has been bought in gradually while coached in the background to seemingly great effect, Fozzy seems to have a new lease of life under the current management, as does his competition Malone, Bogle has come from nowhere, and Lawrence in particular seems a completely different player since his ban and gradual reintroduction into the team, much for the better I might add.

Have we finally landed on a management team that can not only select the best side, but also improve what we already have?

 

Utterly agree that this is exactly what is happening at Derby now. The degree to which it appears to be working suggests that we have the best coaching that we have ever had, Mac1- Mac2. O3 included. 

[Rampage]

5 hours ago, RamNut said:

Couldn't be @rsed to edit it out. You'll cope.

RamNut... What a guy! ?

[MK-Ram]

I always thought the coaching (and Chris Martin) really started to seem to go downhill when Kevin Phillips arrived.  Now he has gone to be with the snake, we suddenly seem to be able to attack again - not solely down to one person I know but an observation all the same.