Are we seeing an improvement through coaching?

[Rampage]

3 minutes ago, MK-Ram said:

I always thought the coaching (and Chris Martin) really started to seem to go downhill when Kevin Phillips arrived.  Now he has gone to be with the snake, we suddenly seem to be able to attack again - not solely down to one person I know but an observation all the same.

I wonder if Kevin would rather be with us now? 

[May Contain Nuts]

3 hours ago, Lambchop said:

I was going to say Mac 1, but I think you're right, we were playing to the limit of our ability by the end of the season, and still got undone by a bunch of mercenaries under Redknapp.

Not sure I fully agree.

I'd say we were playing to capacity during the first half of the 2014/15 season when we were sitting pretty at the top of the table at Christmas. The squad that achieved that was broken apart by the injuries & Ibe's recall but I've not got any doubt in my mind had that not been the case they would have pushed on to go up automatically or win the league.

We'd have had none of this 'ingrained bottlers' nonsense that ensued.

[Ambitious]

I am a strong believer that there is fundamentally a difference between achieving good results & achieving good performances. Rowett, for example, at least with us, could do the former and not the latter. Fat Sam, also, has made a career out of doing just this. Pulis as well. 

They're managers that don't necessarily improve the players they have to work with, but instead use their core abilities to their advantage and get a result. It takes someone with a strong mindset to focus predominantly on the players development, despite the fact that the results should naturally come with it. 

McClaren is a great example, because we saw how players we had flourished under his time here. We also saw the same players go backwards when he left. He predominantly was a coach. Lampard is getting a lot more out of the players here than Rowett did, despite the fact that we're not getting much, much better results than we were under Rowett. 

Managers certainly have their own way of going about things, no doubt whatsoever about that. It doesn't make one more right than the other, but it just depends on your particular preference as a supporter. It's a shame Hughes didn't get the opportunity to work under the current setup. 

[richinspain]

3 hours ago, Ambitious said:

I am a strong believer that there is fundamentally a difference between achieving good results & achieving good performances. Rowett, for example, at least with us, could do the former and not the latter. Fat Sam, also, has made a career out of doing just this. Pulis as well. 

They're managers that don't necessarily improve the players they have to work with, but instead use their core abilities to their advantage and get a result. It takes someone with a strong mindset to focus predominantly on the players development, despite the fact that the results should naturally come with it. 

McClaren is a great example, because we saw how players we had flourished under his time here. We also saw the same players go backwards when he left. He predominantly was a coach. Lampard is getting a lot more out of the players here than Rowett did, despite the fact that we're not getting much, much better results than we were under Rowett. 

Managers certainly have their own way of going about things, no doubt whatsoever about that. It doesn't make one more right than the other, but it just depends on your particular preference as a supporter. It's a shame Hughes didn't get the opportunity to work under the current setup. 

I really don't think that we need to bring Mark Hughes in ?

[Igorwasking]

Will Hughes would be dynamite in this set up. Imagine a midfield oh Huddlestone, Mount and Hughes! Luckily, Wilson, at least for a season, is not making us dwell on that too much at the moment. 

[EssendonRam]

On 04/11/2018 at 09:14, reveldevil said:

It's long been a cornerstone of the 'Derby Way' that we'd see an improvement of players through coaching, I just wonder if now is the first time we've seen evidence of such a policy taking affect?

Marriott for instance has been bought in gradually while coached in the background to seemingly great effect, Fozzy seems to have a new lease of life under the current management, as does his competition Malone, Bogle has come from nowhere, and Lawrence in particular seems a completely different player since his ban and gradual reintroduction into the team, much for the better I might add.

Have we finally landed on a management team that can not only select the best side, but also improve what we already have?

 

 

On 04/11/2018 at 09:20, Gritters said:

I have been saying this after hearing Darren Bent last week saying that the coaches actually want to coach. This must be coaching players to improve their performance. I suspect previous regimes haven’t done this. May be Mac 1 to a point.

A tad unfair to Steve McClaren, especially Mac v1.

It seems easy to forget how much the squad blossomed under McClaren’s coaching. We shouldn’t overlook three key points from McClaren’s first tenure, namely:

1. Most Derby fans would surely have readily conceded that Mac’s 2013-4 side, along with TBE’s earlier Premiership squads, were as attractive and positive as any Rams’ side in decades...until  this season of course;

2. McClaren’s 2013-4 and 2014-5 coaching staff were as good at developing players as any. Remember the improvement was so commonly recognised across the squad that we became widely regarded as the preferred club in England for the big few to loan their so-called ‘starlets’. And, while no-one defends Nigel Clough’s achievements at Derby more staunchly than me, it’s more than a little glib to dismiss the scale of the improvement wrought by McClaren’s coaching of that young squad. We were a dour, mid-table side before McClaren took over from Nigel.

As for McClaren v2, the sheer scale of the Pearson wreckage rendered it an exercise of crisis aversion, rather than constructive development (precisely why Mel Morris’s decision to dismiss McClaren v2 was so egregious... and that’s without relying on 20-20 hindsight to evaluate a McClaren-for-Rowett trade);

3. None of which should undervalue the scale of what Lampard and Morris et al have achieved in an incredibly short time this season. No doubt the development of the squad has been incredible already this season. Not only are we more positive, more attacking, more cohesive and more resilient, we’re faster, more adept at exploiting space and players seem to have much greater clarity in their roles and what they need to do to change momentum when its running against us.

It may be partly attributable to the confidence Frank’s infused through the entire club (including the fans) but it certainly looks like a coaching masterclass.

The single biggest improvement for mine though?

Our ball movement.

At times, it’s been simply breathtaking. Both in speed and in precision. 

Hence, why I wanted to highlight @Anag Ram‘s post below; it DOES have to reflect a different, more focused, more professional approach to training, surely? There has been times this season when I haven’t hesitated to shove our highlights down the throats of friends who follow Premiership clubs and, to a person, they’ve been gobsmacked at the standard of Derby’s ball movement.

On 04/11/2018 at 18:39, Anag Ram said:

It does seem that we are able to pass the ball at speed now and that must come come from training.

Not sure the defence was coached not to know their left foot from  their right on three occasions in two games mind you!?

What has been noticeable in the recent run is players finding space. That was what was so infuriating in the first half yesterday. 

When we play with tempo no-one can match us and I hope that  will be the message on the training ground throughout the season.

 

[EssendonRam]

On 06/11/2018 at 18:48, BathRam72 said:

Forgive me if I am missing something, but who are Derby County1? 

Whoever they are, they’re an improvement on Nigel Pearson’s DerbyCountyNil

[Rev]

@EssendonRam, Mel went public with his 'Derby Way' after Mac1, hence why I started the thread from that period. 

I loved Mac 1, and appreciated the job he did 2nd time around, but as soon as you mention him someone will pop up with "He didn't achieve anything then went off to Newcastle", and I don't really fancy revisiting that tiresome argument.

[The Key Club King]

On 06/11/2018 at 18:18, Ambitious said:

They're managers that don't necessarily improve the players they have to work with, but instead use their core abilities to their advantage and get a result. It takes someone with a strong mindset to focus predominantly on the players development, despite the fact that the results should naturally come with it. 

Absolutely, this is the most impressive aspect of Lampard's management so far. Youngsters promoted in and developed, Marriott held back until he was deemed ready rather than thrown it at the deep-end. 

Having said that, I believe the recruitment of good players has been a more important factor than any improved coaching. Mount, Wilson, Marriott and Tomori (and Bryson!) are all significant improvements on what we had. I've seen McClaren and George Burley improve the playing style over the course of a summer, or even a couple of games in Mac1's case. Not to say that it is not welcome because it absolutely is, and player recruitment is Lampard's responsibility too so he is also successful in this respect.

In terms of transforming players, I think only Bradley Johnson has changed significantly through the new coaching set-up - from clogger to an almost cultured midfielder. Lawrence and Forsyth are still inconsistent. 

All signs look good at the moment, but we have been in this position before in the past 5 years playing football just as good (at times) and not got over the line. 

I would also argue that any team that has one of the biggest budgets in the league and has been in and around the top six for the last five years is not in a mess and third is about what we should expect.

The only miracle I have seen in getting promoted on a relatively small budget from a position of weakness is from Billy Davies. To this day I have no idea how he achieved it. 

[EssendonRam]

10 hours ago, reveldevil said:

@EssendonRam, Mel went public with his 'Derby Way' after Mac1, hence why I started the thread from that period. 

I loved Mac 1, and appreciated the job he did 2nd time around, but as soon as you mention him someone will pop up with "He didn't achieve anything then went off to Newcastle", and I don't really fancy revisiting that tiresome argument.

We are good haters in Derby, aren’t we?

A minor point: I thought the amorphous “Derby Way” was first said publicly after Paul Clement was dismissed for being too keen on promotion? Was it used after Mac1 too? I’ve either missed it then, or forgotten it completely....which, given the sheer number of managerial changes we’ve had in the Candy Crush era, is entirely feasible.

[cannable]

A small improvement I’ve noticed that definitely belongs in this thread is that Tomori controls passes from the right of him with his left-foot now.

It’s only a small detail but it’s important when playing from the back. 

When recieving the ball on your back foot your body’s set to play a pass or carry it straight away.

To contrast, if you’re using your favoured right foot then you’re going to have to take an extra touch to set your body right.