Was Wilson's goal the best free kick by a Derby player?

[RamNut]

Rioch rioch.

[DRBee]

1 hour ago, WystonRam said:

 

Many thanks, looked for film of this and didn't find it. Good to see it again.

[Carl Sagan]

6 hours ago, Bob The Badger said:

Wilsons was way further out, but this one was the most violent I have ever seen by a Derby player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExHQcAvlJJU 

Cannot embed it sadly, 12 seconds in

 

5 hours ago, angieram said:

Like many others, I was at this match and love the memories. 

Isn't it great to think we are seeing some attacking play this season that will also be talked about in years to come? 

For me, the best free kick we score is always the next one! 

 

5 hours ago, Gisby said:

Immediately thought of this one myself, was only a 12yr old football (DCFC) mad kid at the time and can remember couldn’t believe anyone could kick a football so hard!!!! One of my favourite Derby games\goals too - love the video ???

My first though too. Like the rest of you I was there - what a time to be a young Ram! Rioch's and Wilson's both magnificent.

I like Angie's philosophy that the next one is the best one. Mount, Wilson and Lawrence will be fighting over who takes it.

 

[Bris Vegas]

Wilson’s goal was spectacular, but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope. The idea is to change the direction of the ball midflight, to fool the goalkeeper. He wasn’t aiming for that top corner, he was merely aiming to hit it on target and to get enough swerve to deceive Romero. It worked, and in memorable fashion it nestled in the top corner.

While it was Spectacular, it wasn’t on the same level skillwise as say Idiakez who actually aimed to find the top corner, and regularly made it with perfection. His FK goal against Plymouth in particular where he went back across and over the goalkeeper into the top corner was world class.

Wilson, and any knuckleball striker, would be an outright liar if they told you they were aiming for where the ball ends up.

[sunnyhill60]

24 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

Wilson’s goal was spectacular, but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope. The idea is to change the direction of the ball midflight, to fool the goalkeeper. He wasn’t aiming for that top corner, he was merely aiming to hit it on target and to get enough swerve to deceive Romero. It worked, and in memorable fashion it nestled in the top corner.

While it was Spectacular, it wasn’t on the same level skillwise as say Idiakez who actually aimed to find the top corner, and regularly made it with perfection. His FK goal against Plymouth in particular where he went back across and over the goalkeeper into the top corner was world class.

Wilson, and any knuckleball striker, would be an outright liar if they told you they were aiming for where the ball ends up.

and the reason for this rather bilious post is? 

(the last sentence is unnecessary if you listen to Wilson himself talking about the free kick, as most will have done)

[Comrade 86]

Not sure if I've asked you before Bris but are you an only child, by any chance?

[irobinson]

I still think Bruce Riochs was more brutal

 

my jaw dropped at the BBG that day 

[SaintRam]

Bris is partially correct, to be fair. 

However people who are particularly good at knuckleballs (mostly in baseball) are able to aim them in a sense. You can often draw an invisible line around which the ball makes its movements. Most football knuckleballs are hit and hope though. I'd have to see far more attempts from Wilson to know how often he gets the ball on target in general v landing it perfectly in the top corner.

But you can take Ronaldo, as an example. He's landed loads perfectly in the top corner but the vast majority of his FK's hit some poor sod in the upper stand.

THAT ALL BEING SAID, a huge proportion of shots in general in football are hit and hope to an extent but that doesn't take any credit away from the scorer when they go in. It deserves all the plaudits its getting, 100%.

 

14 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Ah now I’m gonna get rolled eyes and all sorts for this...BUT looking at the fan video posted earlier of the Wilson free kick from behind the keepers positioning is pretty poor as he’s committed far too early. It’s fantastic technique from Wilson but I think a keeper with a proper view and hasn’t committed to going to his left before the ball is struck then saves it.

UNLESS:

The Derby staff had noticed the keepers movement in their pre game analysis and said to give it a go. If so then I’m first to applaud everyone involved with noticing that. If not then I think he was ever so slightly fortunate the keeper has commited like he has.

 

The goalkeeper has to commit as soon as he sees the ball. While the ball is travelling up the height of the wall (from the GKs perspective) and peeks over the wall, it is headed to Romero's left. So he commits early, which he'd have to do with the pace its clearly travelling, and in that moment it heads over to the right. Its not on Romero.

[TigerTedd]

The great thing is, with mount and Wilson now having displayed that they’re both excellent free kick takers, and on opposite feet, at any feee kick they can both line up, and no one has a clue who’s going to hit it, off what foot, in what direction. 

When Ronaldo lines up for a free kick, you know he’s going to take it, no matter who else is around it. So a goal keeper can position himself and his wall based on that. 

But we’re going to cause goal keepers a real head ache when both Wilson and mount are lined up behind a free kick. 

[Anon]

8 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Wilson’s goal was spectacular, but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope. The idea is to change the direction of the ball midflight, to fool the goalkeeper. He wasn’t aiming for that top corner, he was merely aiming to hit it on target and to get enough swerve to deceive Romero. It worked, and in memorable fashion it nestled in the top corner.

While it was Spectacular, it wasn’t on the same level skillwise as say Idiakez who actually aimed to find the top corner, and regularly made it with perfection. His FK goal against Plymouth in particular where he went back across and over the goalkeeper into the top corner was world class.

Wilson, and any knuckleball striker, would be an outright liar if they told you they were aiming for where the ball ends up.

This is absolutely correct. I can't help but notice that none of the eye rollers have been able to form a counter argument that amounts to anything more than "Bris is a meanie".

[cheron85]

15 hours ago, TuffLuff said:

Ah now I’m gonna get rolled eyes and all sorts for this...BUT looking at the fan video posted earlier of the Wilson free kick from behind the keepers positioning is pretty poor as he’s committed far too early. It’s fantastic technique from Wilson but I think a keeper with a proper view and hasn’t committed to going to his left before the ball is struck then saves it.

I have a couple of mates who were semi-pro goalkeepers both who said his positioning was poor - You position your wall to cover the near post and then you stand towards the far post - Before the ball was even struck he was over towards the near post - More in the centre of the goal - Apparently it's keeper 101

9 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Wilson’s goal was spectacular, but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope. The idea is to change the direction of the ball midflight, to fool the goalkeeper. He wasn’t aiming for that top corner, he was merely aiming to hit it on target and to get enough swerve to deceive Romero. It worked, and in memorable fashion it nestled in the top corner.

While it was Spectacular, it wasn’t on the same level skillwise as say Idiakez who actually aimed to find the top corner, and regularly made it with perfection. His FK goal against Plymouth in particular where he went back across and over the goalkeeper into the top corner was world class.

Wilson, and any knuckleball striker, would be an outright liar if they told you they were aiming for where the ball ends up.

I'd suggest there are different skills involved - Saying "you can't control this kind of technique" is like saying "a spin bowler can't control where it spins" which is nonsense

When I was applying to uni (waaaayyyy back 15+ years ago now) I went to a lecture at Imperial (London's science/maths arm) and the guy talked us through the mathmatics/dynmaics of the Beckham vs Roberto Carlos free-kicks - Both incredibly accurate, both very different skills and very different free kicks, both perfected through practice - The bend on a ball happens by creating spin which causes eddies (no relation to @eddie) in the air and causes the change in direction - With the Beckham free-kick that starts as soon as he hit the ball - The Carlos free-kick was different, he hit it with such power that at first the eddies were sliced apart by the ball, so even though the ball was spinning it was too fast for the eddies to affect the direction - And when it slowed down (closer to the goal) the effect of the eddies would kick in and it would suddenly change direction

1 minute ago, Anon said:

This is absolutely correct. I can't help but notice that none of the eye rollers have been able to form a counter argument that amounts to anything more than "Bris is a meanie".

People can practice pretty much anything - Is the argument I would make:

https://playgreatsoccer.com/t/soccer-coaching-tips-knuckleball/

[TuffLuff]

1 hour ago, SaintRam said:

 

The goalkeeper has to commit as soon as he sees the ball. While the ball is travelling up the height of the wall (from the GKs perspective) and peeks over the wall, it is headed to Romero's left. So he commits early, which he'd have to do with the pace its clearly travelling, and in that moment it heads over to the right. Its not on Romero.

You are correct, but I’d possibly say (without looking at it again) Romero places himself too far to the left and behind the 1st player in the wall which means his view isn’t clear until the ball is struck. I honestly don’t know enough about knuckleballs, heck I hadn’t even heard it called that until this thread so I have no idea how a keeper looks to stop it. My only guess is that a keeper needs to see how a player is striking a ball in order to react and im not sure Romero places himself in order to do that. The build up to that goal, from a defensive point of view, looks very disorganised to me.

[TigerTedd]

6 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

You are correct, but I’d possibly say (without looking at it again) Romero places himself too far to the left and behind the 1st player in the wall which means his view isn’t clear until the ball is struck. I honestly don’t know enough about knuckleballs, heck I hadn’t even heard it called that until this thread so I have no idea how a keeper looks to stop it. My only guess is that a keeper needs to see how a player is striking a ball in order to react and im not sure Romero places himself in order to do that. The build up to that goal, from a defensive point of view, looks very disorganised to me.

As I said earlier, he would have been put off by the fact he wouldn’t have known if it was coming left footed from Wilson, or right footed from mount. Causes another headache for a goalkeeper, something else for them to think about. 

[SaintRam]

3 minutes ago, TuffLuff said:

You are correct, but I’d possibly say (without looking at it again) Romero places himself too far to the left and behind the 1st player in the wall which means his view isn’t clear until the ball is struck. I honestly don’t know enough about knuckleballs, heck I hadn’t even heard it called that until this thread so I have no idea how a keeper looks to stop it. My only guess is that a keeper needs to see how a player is striking a ball in order to react and im not sure Romero places himself in order to do that. The build up to that goal, from a defensive point of view, looks very disorganised to me.

So its a huge proportion of luck from both the kickers perspective and the keepers perspective.

Knuckleballs are kicked (originally thrown, in baseball) with absolutely no spin. This creates unstable lift and does some other complex things to the aerodynamics. The general trajectory remains the same but the ball moves in very unpredictable ways.

As @Bris Vegas said earlier, because of that the striker has no real control of where the ball is going after its kicked other than its general direction. But it does take quite a lot of skill to impact the ball in just the right way.

In terms of goalkeeping, it means if the ball is on target they just have to hope it hits a part of them. Try and get their whole body behind it. Goalkeepers who try to 'just' save it, i.e. by putting a hand to it, tend to have results like the two GKs who conceded to Lawrence FKs earlier in the season.  They don't get proper contact and it goes in anyway.

[Bob The Badger]

12 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope

Spoken like a true knucklehead.

[Bob The Badger]

2 hours ago, SaintRam said:

But it does take quite a lot of skill to impact the ball in just the right way.

No, it takes a LOT of skill. If it were quite a lot you'd have them flying in in every game in the Championship.

[StringerBell]

12 hours ago, Bris Vegas said:

Wilson’s goal was spectacular, but any knuckleball attempt is a hit and hope. The idea is to change the direction of the ball midflight, to fool the goalkeeper. He wasn’t aiming for that top corner, he was merely aiming to hit it on target and to get enough swerve to deceive Romero. It worked, and in memorable fashion it nestled in the top corner.

While it was Spectacular, it wasn’t on the same level skillwise as say Idiakez who actually aimed to find the top corner, and regularly made it with perfection. His FK goal against Plymouth in particular where he went back across and over the goalkeeper into the top corner was world class.

Wilson, and any knuckleball striker, would be an outright liar if they told you they were aiming for where the ball ends up.

Not quite sure why Bris is getting a hard time for this. It's not like Wilson used the force to take it into the top corner.

[SaintRam]

40 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

No, it takes a LOT of skill. If it were quite a lot you'd have them flying in in every game in the Championship.

I'll stick with quite a lot. 

A knuckleball that flies into row Z was not struck incorrectly. People kick it right far more often than you think.

[Animal is a Ram]

It's not so much that he's correct, because he is, but this is the danger of analysing football to its nth degree.

Suck allll the fun and joy out of what was a truly magical moment.

[Bris Vegas]

Don’t get me wring, Wilson’s goal was spectacular and one of the most spectacular goals I’ve ever seen Derby score.

But with a knuckleball attempt, you can’t control direction. Go and have a look at a selection of knuckleball goals on youtube.

Some swing out, and some swing in. That Wilson shot could have easily swung inwards and into the opposite top corner, which would have been equally spectacular.

Guys who hit the ball in this way have zero control of where the ball is going to end up. It’s pot luck. The technique to hit it like that is really difficult, I know.

I’m not trying to downplay the goal. There is great skill in the technique of striking he ball, but the end product in terms of placement is pure luck.