Parsnip Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, Carnero said: Say what?! Haha we need some muscle in there ? (To look after young Thomas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TibshelfRam Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Looks like Frank is going to go with 4-3-3. Its a system that we've used plenty before so we know what we're going to get. However, it does come back to the old problem of not having a consistent approach to managerial appointments - our constant change in styles means that our squad constantly needs rebuilding to suit those styles. So, 12-18 months ago we had a squad suited to 4-3-3, over the last year we slowly dismantled that squad to move it away from that style only now to want to revert to that without really having a squad capable of playing that way! Anyway, rant over... on to more progressive issues. There are several keys to playing this way and they are as follows: We want to play out from the back so we need defenders comfortable on the ball (FTR, I don't really see this as being a problem as I think we have got capable players in that regard); We need TOP QUALITY full backs. The nature of the wingers being inverted means that you have to have full backs who are attack minded and will add that overlapping width. However, the fact that the wingers are so advanced (and almost play as auxiliary forwards), fullbacks will get virtually no protection - so they need to be solid and physically strong. I am not convinced of our options at left back (is Forsyth reliably injury free? Is Lowe proven?) and at right back it will be interesting to see if Frank sees Wisdom at RB or CB. The player in front of the defence is key (formerly the "Thorne role"). He starts our play and conducts so much of it. Huddlestone is clearly capable of this but I still have reservations about mobility . Ledley is not good enough on the ball to play there and Johnson does not have the discipline. Thorne is unreliable injury wise. Huddlestone is good enough but will require support. The two central midfielders need to be two different players - Lampard knows only too well that there is no point having two of the same (see Steven Gerrard) but it makes the system ineffective. Both players need to be good on the ball but ONE has to be a playmaker (dropping deep and moving forward with the ball in the way Hughes used to or how Modric etc play and playing through them) and ONE needs to be a bomber who gets up in support of the forward and beyond them (how Bryson or Lampard used to). Mason Mount is clearly someone who can and probably will do the latter - he will look to make those runs beyond the forward to get into the box and score goals. Bryson could do the same but I fear they can't be used together as having the two means we have nobody who can get on the ball and control a game in possession. Ledley (who played the role last night) is a nightmare in that role and so is Johnson - neither are good enough in possession. The one player who could play that role is Butterfield. The two wingers need to be creative and able to take chances but also need to have the appropriate work rate to be able to track back and support the full backs. Need pace to get beyond the striker . I think we have good options here (Lawrence, Wilson, Jozefzoon?) but I'm not sure we're as strong as we were previously and we could still do with someone with a decent left foot (although, I think Wilson does?) in that area to make us more effective. The forward - to make this role really effective, needs to be able to play with their back to goal, drop deep and be judged on supporting play as well as finishing opportunities. We need some physicality but, crucially, I would like to see someone with a bit more pace. Martin was brilliant at this role originally but I don't want to get hung up on that debate - and the one criticism was his lack of pace which made him a little one dimensional. Jerome has the pace and power but I do not trust his link up play or his touch, Vydra does not do enough off the ball and does not have the required physicality and I think Martin is not part of Frank's plans. For me, the main option we have is Nugent but I think we need to strengthen. It seems strange that we would want to sell our top scorer from last season but, if this is the system we are seeking to play, I don't see how Vydra fits. Selling him would release the fees to add players both in regard to wages and transfer fees. My one concern about this system is our being lightweight in the centre of midfield - we effectively have three ball playing players and nobody to do the dirty work. We could be too easy to play against and, particularly with Huddlestone as the deeper player, I worry about us out of possession. But, in my view, the best way to make this system work is as detailed above. So, for Reading away, based on what we have now and on the assumption that we want to play this system, I would go with the following (roles where I would look to bring someone in for are highlighted in bold) : GK: CARSON RB: WISDOM CB: KEOGH CB: DAVIES LB: LOWE CDM: HUDDLESTONE CM: BUTTERFIELD CM: MOUNT RW: WILSON LW: LAWRENCE ST: NUGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Carson Bogle Wisdom Davies Lowe Huddlestone Wilson Mount Vydra Lawrence Martin Josefzoon Thomas Jerome keogh Mitchell Bryson Nugent Would be an exiting line up with bags of pace in the flanks plenty of ‘players in the middle diamond and mix of youth and expirinence at the back. Very fluid formation too as can be a 4-3-3 attacking or 4-5-1 when defending. Loads of pace all over the park and some nous at the back, just as the wise boys tire on come two more and Bryson in the middle. I think you’d get a lot out of Vydra playing that position to. Ultimately though I like the fact we have so many options we could have this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, DcfcJB said: I think you’d get a lot out of Vydra playing that position to Vydra in centre midfield....? The guy doesn't run about at all. He doesn't do tackling, pressing or any of the dirty side to central midfield. Not sure how you think you'd get a lot out of him there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, Andicis said: Vydra in centre midfield....? The guy doesn't run about at all. He doesn't do tackling, pressing or any of the dirty side to central midfield. Not sure how you think you'd get a lot out of him there? Tbf I didnt make it clear enough but I’d have him slightly further forward than mount in possession. However stating Vydra doesn’t do any running/pressing/ tackling is ludicrous. After watching him every game last season. Vydra was pressing teams left right and centre, winning the ball back for us in midfield. Countless times last season I saw Vydra doing the dirty side of the game and putting a shift in. If he didn’t do that then he wouldn’t have played in a rowett team he had to defend as well as go forward. Definitely could play there. Theres a misconception with Vydra which come from the fact that when he takes a heavy tackle he stays down for a few moments. But let in never be said that he doensnt run about and win possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 If we're talking ideal side I'd have Lukaku up front, Modric in midfield and Neueur in goal. Besides that it's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaaLocks Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 33 minutes ago, DcfcJB said: Carson Bogle Wisdom Davies Lowe Huddlestone Wilson Mount Vydra Lawrence Martin Josefzoon Thomas Jerome keogh Mitchell Bryson Nugent Would be an exiting line up Please no, some of them have only just arrived Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 42 minutes ago, DcfcJB said: Tbf I didnt make it clear enough but I’d have him slightly further forward than mount in possession. However stating Vydra doesn’t do any running/pressing/ tackling is ludicrous. After watching him every game last season. Vydra was pressing teams left right and centre, winning the ball back for us in midfield. Countless times last season I saw Vydra doing the dirty side of the game and putting a shift in. If he didn’t do that then he wouldn’t have played in a rowett team he had to defend as well as go forward. Definitely could play there. Theres a misconception with Vydra which come from the fact that when he takes a heavy tackle he stays down for a few moments. But let in never be said that he doensnt run about and win possession. It is absolutely not a misconception. Vydra's head drops, and he disappears from games, very often. He runs about a bit in the first half, then drops off and does very little. A playing a midfield two of Huddlestone and Mount would rely too heavily on Mount to do almost all the running and pressing from the middle, seems an unacceptably high burden to put on him to accommodate Vydra, who is by definition a luxury player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeTownRam Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 On 17/07/2018 at 08:00, sage said: So no midfielders who can defend then... Mount said he likes to get back and help and Bryson is everywhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, CapeTownRam said: Mount said he likes to get back and help and Bryson is everywhere! No as a CM of 2 with Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Ledley bryson. Mount NEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfella Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 4 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Ledley bryson. Mount NEW How many have we sold!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Gold Dream Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Assuming Frank will play all his new signings. With three new signings in two days, at least half of the following players will leave on loan or are sold such as Blackman, Butterfield, Anya, Thorne, Martin, Nugent, Zanzala, Hanson, Gordon, Vernam, Guy, Roos, Bennett. If we sell Vydra, Tammy Abraham will probably arrive on loan. I still hope Vydra stays and he will get us another 20 goals this season. I expect the team to be: Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Wilson Mount Huddlestone Josefzoon Vydra Jerome Subs: Mitchell, Pearce, Johnson, Bryson, Thomas, Bennett, Nugent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Ledley Bryson Mount Wilson Jerome Lawrence Ledley instead of Huddlestone because he provides more defensive protection. Jerome only in because of his good form towards the end of last season and because Martin isn’t fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1976 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Huddlestone Wilson Bryson Mount Lawrence A Striker...... take your pick from who’s still here or arrives, Marriott, Vydra, Jerome, Nugent, Martin, Blackman. Subs : Striker, Ledley, Thorne, Johnson, Thomas, Keeper, Brentford fella! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazzaRam Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, DCFC1976 said: Carson Wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Huddlestone Wilson Bryson Mount Lawrence A Striker...... take your pick from who’s still here or arrives, Marriott, Vydra, Jerome, Nugent, Martin, Blackman. Subs : Striker, Ledley, Thorne, Johnson, Thomas, Keeper, Brentford fella! I virtually agree with that side. I get the feeling with the pace we have teams will drop deep so I would pick Martin if fit. Players can play off him from deep. I would just take a nights sleep on Bryson's role as to how good Thorne or Johnson are shaping up. But im 90/95% with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC27 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Right Vydra runs himself until he can’t carry on, 70 odd minutes of tireless sprints and energy then could do with subbing. 22 goals speaks for itself - certainly not a luxury player if he’s churning them stats out, and I’ll lament (as much as I don’t like the guy) the point that Rowett wouldn’t play a luxury player, everyone had to put a shift in to defend all season long. Fact remains Vydra is a derby player. Arguably Derby’s best player. If we are playing free flowing football - mount and Vydra can both interchange between a 8 and a 10. With huddlestone keeping things tidy behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Carson wisdom Keogh Davies Forsyth Huddlestone Mount. Bryson wilson xxxxxx Lawrence as we stand that’s how I see it - obviously centre forward is currently a problem as both Vydra and Martin are not fit or effectively playing - Jerome doesn’t seem to suit starting a game and nugent is a temporary starter probably with Blackman needing to move on it seems - if the Dutch lad signs I don’t expect him to be starting with a choice of Thomas and Bennett out wide on the bench with some cover in the other sub spots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 8 hours ago, DcfcJB said: Right Vydra runs himself until he can’t carry on, 70 odd minutes of tireless sprints and energy then could do with subbing. 22 goals speaks for itself - certainly not a luxury player if he’s churning them stats out, and I’ll lament (as much as I don’t like the guy) the point that Rowett wouldn’t play a luxury player, everyone had to put a shift in to defend all season long. Fact remains Vydra is a derby player. Arguably Derby’s best player. If we are playing free flowing football - mount and Vydra can both interchange between a 8 and a 10. With huddlestone keeping things tidy behind them. I think a few might argue with you. He is certainly the one who can score the goals, however he has the luxury of being a striker who's job it is to score. Not sure it makes him the best player because of that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlsonDerby Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 Carson (Roos back up) Wisdom(Bogle) Keogh Davies Lowe(Forsyth) (Would only play 1 inexperienced FB Pearce as back up) Huddlestone (Thorne as back up) Mount Bryson (Butterfield and Ledley as back ups) Lawrence Wilson (Any of Thomas, Bennett & FZoom to rotate with) Jerome (Martin if FL rates him) So subs looking like: Roos, Pearce, (1 of)Bogle/Lowe/Foz/Wisdom, Ledley, Martin, FLzoom, Thomas. Based on players we pretty much have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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