Social Anxiety

[Alph]

57 minutes ago, i-Ram said:

Your brother seems a really nice bloke.

I prefer his brother more.

 

You tit

[bigbadbob]

1 hour ago, 1of4 said:

Me I'm probably the polar opposite. I'll happily talk to anyone, usually in my first language of utter ballcocks. While being happy in the knowledge that I can verbally convey my thoughts clearly and concisely to anyone. I struggle to do the same when posting on a social media sites.

It as nothing to do with my poor spelling, got spell check for that, or grammar. It just that it can take me over half an hour just to compose a couple of sentences that I think makes any sense and makes it clear in what I'm actually trying to say, even then I often delete it and not post it. Which then leaves me feeling frustrated because I haven't been able to reply to peoples posts.

Took me over an hour to write this. Not ful!y happy with it but gritted my teeth and pressed send.

This 

[1of4]

6 minutes ago, bigbadbob said:

This 

Managed to write this a bit quicker this time but This with a capital letter took me slightly longer.

[Rev]

I made a post earlier, then deleted it because it made no sense.

I just don't know what triggers my anxiety, not that I'd call it that.

It's not just strangers, I've turned down family invites for the flimsiest of reasons, to the extent that I have 5 siblings I've not seen much in close to 2 decades, and many nieces and nephews I've never met, and indeed their offspring, so it's not the danger of the unknown that bothers me.

I was even served by my niece in a shop recently, I last saw her when she was 12 but still recognised her, the nametag helped admittedly, but still didn't identify myself to her and say hello, even though my wife was begging me to.

I'm the fella at work who sorts out the nights out, organises the playlists through the day, approaches management with others concerns, yet can't pick up the phone to the one of 3 sisters I have a phone number for and tell her how much I love and miss her, and it's killing me.

I'm fine in a crowd, it's closeness that kills me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alph]

1 hour ago, reveldevil said:

I made a post earlier, then deleted it because it made no sense.

I just don't know what triggers my anxiety, not that I'd call it that.

It's not just strangers, I've turned down family invites for the flimsiest of reasons, to the extent that I have 5 siblings I've not seen much in close to 2 decades, and many nieces and nephews I've never met, and indeed their offspring, so it's not the danger of the unknown that bothers me.

I was even served by my niece in a shop recently, I last saw her when she was 12 but still recognised her, the nametag helped admittedly, but still didn't identify myself to her and say hello, even though my wife was begging me to.

I'm the fella at work who sorts out the nights out, organises the playlists through the day, approaches management with others concerns, yet can't pick up the phone to the one of 3 sisters I have a phone number for and tell her how much I love and miss her, and it's killing me.

I'm fine in a crowd, it's closeness that kills me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's going to happen rev if you ring that sister? 

Don't tell yourself that your anxiety is dumb. Don't be like "how stupid is it that I can't ring my sister". You just put pressure on yourself. Treat it like what it is. A mammoth task to learn how to initiate a conversation. Don't tell yourself something is nothing. It's a challenge

There's an ideal you and then there's you. The guy you want to be isn't anxious. He's well hung too!! Good looking, and just a laid back man of the people. He's what you use, rather your brain does, to attack the real you. There's no social situation that he can't handle. 

People put pressure on themselves to be the ideal version of themselves that live in their head. That's good to improve how you are. You try to be as thin or muscular as that guy. But that's also where the pressure comes from every time you duck up. 

I mean the ideal you would just pick up the phone wouldn't he? He'd have said "Hi" in the shop? Course he would. He's so ducking perfect. 

He's not real. He's just an idea and we all have to find a way to be inspired by that image without being belittled or whatever the right word is. 

Don't let the ideal you put pressure on you. You're allowed to be ducked up. I am. Even Frank Lampard is.

So get comfortable with being ducked up in the head. The anxiety is pressure from yourself. It's the challenge a pretend Reveldevil had put before you. A pretend version of you. 

I think step 1 is to accept you're tormenting yourself. Step 2 is to take baby steps. Keep it all simple and remember only that ideal you is putting pressure on you. 

Don't think it's all daft. It's deadly serious. You can crumble under the pressure you put on yourself. 

And when you're ready. Pick up the phone and say "Hi, it's xxx. How have you been?" 

Nothing clever, don't plan beyond that. Don't think beyond that. If you think how that conversation will play out then it's the ideal you talking. Don't plan what to say. Focus on the first line. The first sentence. "Hi, it's xxx. How have you been?". That's it. Practice it. That's all you have to do. It's not easy, it's not hard. It's not a test. It's just "hi". 

And that's the same way I'd go to any family invites. Don't play the thing out in your head. Don't let the ideal you tell you how it should all play out. Just focus on the real you. The ducked up one. The one that's not perfect. And you don't want to be perfect. You don't have to have perfect Zen. You don't have to be anything for anyone. Pressure only comes from you. Baby steps. Keep it simple. 

I think everyone thinks that having conversations with people is easy. You should know how to do it unless you are a complete imbecile. Yet look around at how varied people are in the art of communicating. Clearly there's some skill involved. 

Can only speak for myself but I still actively practice talking to people. Complete stranger in town the other day. I made a joke about how when walking into the Intu center people only ever walk through open doors and never open a new one. It's ******** and I could have been ignored and I still would have talked poo to someone else later. I'm not really looking to make new friends but I know naturally I'm likely to be socially awkward and I'm practicing being chilled, friendly and a social butterfly!! There's nothing wrong with being anxious. Accept it and take simple baby steps to combat it. Work towards the ideal you but know that you will never achieve it. Just slowly try.

[ketteringram]

Just wanted to say there are several outstanding posts in this thread ?

[Angry Ram]

Poo... It’s threads like this that make me appreciate how lucky I am..

Good luck all with whatever challenges you.. ??

[Boycie]

7 hours ago, reveldevil said:

I made a post earlier, then deleted it because it made no sense.

I just don't know what triggers my anxiety, not that I'd call it that.

It's not just strangers, I've turned down family invites for the flimsiest of reasons, to the extent that I have 5 siblings I've not seen much in close to 2 decades, and many nieces and nephews I've never met, and indeed their offspring, so it's not the danger of the unknown that bothers me.

I was even served by my niece in a shop recently, I last saw her when she was 12 but still recognised her, the nametag helped admittedly, but still didn't identify myself to her and say hello, even though my wife was begging me to.

I'm the fella at work who sorts out the nights out, organises the playlists through the day, approaches management with others concerns, yet can't pick up the phone to the one of 3 sisters I have a phone number for and tell her how much I love and miss her, and it's killing me.

I'm fine in a crowd, it's closeness that kills me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have similar feelings when I go to the fans charter meetings, totally out my comfort zone the first time, but it got easier.  

I think it’s thinking about making conversation with strangers that makes me anxious, the thought of not knowing what to say, imagining myself in awkward silences.

Thinking about it, my work situation is different, I’m meeting strangers but I know I’m there to give my opinion on a job or fault that needs doing.  No small talk, quick hello, straight down to business “so what do you need doing/where’s the problem”

After I’ve broke the ice I’m fine, normally find common ground on football, where I live, all the normal small talk that I worry that I’m not going to be able to do.

I think the fact that after a beer or two I’m a different person proves it’s all in my head.

The internet does let you overcome your anxiety issues though, but I must admit, I do hammer the puns in real live too.

Thats the saddest thing of all. ?

[Boycie]

6 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

Poo... It’s threads like this that make me appreciate how lucky I am..

Good luck all with whatever challenges you.. ??

I stood in Convent Garden for 10 mins looking at you thinking the same thing mate. ?

[Alph]

1 hour ago, Boycie said:

 

I think it’s thinking about making conversation with strangers that makes me anxious, the thought of not knowing what to say, imagining myself in awkward silences.

Baby steps. Why put pressure on yourself? Do you ever expect anyone who speaks to you to for the first time to instantly have you doubled over with laughter and if they aren't deep and interesting within 5 minutes do you dismiss them as a numpty? You don't. Nobody expects it of you either. Except the ideal you. The guy you want to be. You want to introduce your ideal you. But that's not you and it never will be so it's impossible. It's a dangling carrot. 

So long as you can do the baby steps and deliver it well then anyone can see your an open guy. "Hiya, how are you"

That's it. Deliver that one sentence calmly, with eye contact like and in a friendly tone. Let people know your open but that one sentence is all you have in the bank. You're bloody good at that one sentence though.

If you're feeling confident then throw some ******** in. "It's hot/cold in here" or "i regret wearing this pink vest". Any balls. A lot of people out there will work with anything because they are struggling to. And some people are so good socially that you'll ask them how they are and they will talk until midnight. Don't put pressure on yourself to be that guy. Small steps. And if you get nothing back after you've tried to be a bit braver then you're talking to someone with anxiety or you've been rejected. So what? Just start again next time. "Hi, how are you". 

Environment does make a huge difference. With your work you are confident because you have more to give than "hi". Same can be said at football. 

I thought everyone at the meet up seemed sound. I like everyone I've met from this forum. And we aren't all equally social skilled. But it doesn't matter because everyone seemed open to me. And that's all you need to be in any environment. And you can do it within one sentence. 

But knob heads exist. Ignore them. They wouldn't even talk to the ideal you. But in all honesty most folk are open just with different level of communicating.

[Wolfie]

11 hours ago, philmycock said:

Surround yourself with people you’re comfortable with. I hate overpowering people, so stay clear of them. Not always an option but life’s too short to worry about what people think. But then I’m old(ish) and worldly wise!

This.

I can't stand having to interact with "Alpha Male" types. One of my friends (who wouldn't be normally but my wife & his are mates) is a big one and I can see it drives him nuts that I won't play along with his macho BS. I can see the way he looks at me sometimes, like "Why aren't you competing with me?!".

It amuses me enormously that he effectively loses the game because I refuse to play and he can't work out why.

[McRainy]

9 hours ago, Alpha said:

The anxiety is pressure from yourself.

I don't think what you're talking about is really anxiety. Nervousness or insecurity, maybe, but anxiety is a physiological reaction in the brain which causes crippling panic. You can't just jolly yourself out of it. 

[Comrade 86]

I've only read a few posts as this is a little close to the bone for me and not a terribly comfortable topic of conversation. I think there is far greater awareness these days of how debilitating social anxiety can be. For personal reasons, I view my own idiosyncrasies as being part of my introvert nature, which is perhaps mildly self-delusional. I'm not sure that medication, nor re-programming is the way forward though I understand why folk who are less impacted by these issues might think that they are. My way forward has been to try to manage my feelings rather than change them. I'm totally instinctive these days and if I feel that I'm not going to be comfortable in a situation, then I simply avoid it. Sometimes I get it wrong though and it can be a highly unpleasant experience, where flight is the the overriding instinct.

I think the greatest shame about those who do suffer with social anxiety is that oftentimes the mindset is not self-reflective; it's almost as if we don't want to upset other folk by feeling the way we do. In so much, we're often our own worst enemies. I joined a FB group dedicated to the subject in hope of gaining insight but this was all I really learnt. Folk who don't really know me can consider me flaky or worse as I do drop out of many nights out to which I've been invited. Luckily, those that do know me accept and understand that I'll have my reasons, even if those reasons seem something of a mystery. 

The last thing I'd say relates to treatments. I have enough habits to persuade me that further self-medication is not the way forward but there is significant evidence that pets can help. I suppose we all want to be loved and social anxiety can make us feel unloveable, but pets don't judge and give love unconditionally - dogs at least! It's not so much a cure as something else to focus on and they do get you out of the house after all. For those looking at treatments for depression and anxiety, there are numerous interesting studies relating to the micro-dosing of both LSD and ketamine. No, I'm not pulling your leg! I think it will be some time before these studies yield mainstream treatments as such, but their findings are immensely promising.

[BondJovi]

I think @Alpha covered all the points rather well.

Sometimes I find it really hard work to talk to people. My concern always seems to be saying the wrong thing. A lot of time in conversations with more than one person, I probably won't say a lot, just chip in with the odd one liner and rely on poor comedy to see me through. Yet other times I can be chatty.

Being part self-employed I am forced into having to start conversations with strangers sometimes and I hate getting the conversation started, once going I am fine and it flows freely.

In conversations I don't tend to reveal much about what I am really thinking or feeling but in written form I find it far easier hence my writing of some rather drawn out blogs. Sometimes my wife has to ask me about my feelings and opinions because if she doesn't ask I probably won't say but that is happening less.

What I think some struggle to understand is that I am perfectly happy to be "boring" and stay in and keep my own company. I find big social events draining and after a few hours I'd rather be back home. I am probably far happier sat behind my drums letting them do the talking for me.

It took a long time to accept the above but I now understand myself better and if I say something that seems garbage, I just laugh it off. We are all different, some of us loud, some quiet, some talk a lot just because they like their own voice, others because they want to share things, some prefer to listen.

[Bob The Badger]

23 hours ago, Lambchop said:

Anxiety is a medical condition caused by overload of the fight/ flight response, it isn't just feeling a bit shy. If you genuinely suffer from anxiety, then forcing yourself into the situations which trigger it is the worst thing you can do. 

It's not the worst thing you can do at all, for many people it can be very successful. It's called flooding in psychology and is used a LOT.

It may not have worked for you, but to advise other people not to do it isn't very wise.

The agreed upon worst thing you can do is adopt an avoidance strategy because that basically tells your brain there is something to be concerned about.

If you have a fear of polar bears, then by all means use an avoidance strategy, otherwise look for other options.

@Alpha made a comment about not telling yourself your anxiety is dumb which is spot on.

I used to suffer from social anxiety @Smyth_18 culminating in a panic attack whilst giving a sales presentation!

I took myself off to Sheffield University to study stress management. Since then I've done a boat load of training in coaching, NLP and hypnotherapy and for the last 13 years I've been helping people with SA - It tends to be people with issues around public speaking, but I've done plenty of other stuff too.

You absolutely can get over it. Is it easy? No of course not, it's fricken hard, but it's a question of getting the right help. If your SA doesn't extend to Skype and you could talk with me I'd be happy to set something up.

 

 

[Bob The Badger]

3 hours ago, Lambchop said:

You can't just jolly yourself out of it. 

That's definitely true and can be counterproductive.

[McRainy]

12 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

I took myself off to Sheffield University to study stress management. Since then I've done a boat load of training in coaching, NLP and hypnotherapy

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this as well, but I'm a UKCP accredited psychotherapist with years of experience working in mental health. 

Anxiety conditions range from mild to totally debilitating. There is some confusion in this thread because the same word is being used to describe a spectrum of experience. For some people, avoiding trigger situations is absolutely the right and necessary thing to do. 

[Bob The Badger]

9 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this as well, but I'm a UKCP accredited psychotherapist with years of experience working in mental health. 

Anxiety conditions range from mild to totally debilitating. There is some confusion in this thread because the same word is being used to describe a spectrum of experience. For some people, avoiding trigger situations is absolutely the right and necessary thing to do. 

Firstly, my original comment said that stress is just a catchall term, so we agree on that.

Secondly, I said it's not the wrong  thing to do for some people, so we agree on that too then.

And finally, I'm fully aware that it ranges from mild to debilitating.

So we totally agree and no piss was spilt.

[McRainy]

2 minutes ago, Bob The Badger said:

So we totally agree and no piss was spilt.

Phew!

[SaintRam]

31 minutes ago, Lambchop said:

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you over this as well, but I'm a UKCP accredited psychotherapist with years of experience working in mental health. 

Anxiety conditions range from mild to totally debilitating. There is some confusion in this thread because the same word is being used to describe a spectrum of experience. For some people, avoiding trigger situations is absolutely the right and necessary thing to do. 

I'm glad you stated "UKCP accredited" so I don't have to warn people that 'psychotherapist' is an unprotected title. UKCP have good standards ?