North East Ram Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, Saity said: But Huddersfield and Bournemouth didn't spend big, in fact done the opposite and spent very little They spent more than you think, just not in an overt Villa style. But they got it spot on somehow., especially Bournemouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rample Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Will be an interesting season and hope we can flirt with the top of the table. but, I am only optimistic about positive changes in the squad rather than success. Decent signings could still swing me but so far nothing to suggest we will I,m prove greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoneedshuls Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Me ? so when is frank supposed to be on tv duty for World Cup don’t think I’ve seen him yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 21 hours ago, CornwallRam said: Money doesn't guarantee success, but the lack of it appears to guarantee failure in this division. Wolves and Watford found creative ways to compete, but they still spent a lot of money effectively off the books. Parachute teams are far more likely to occupy the top six. Bournemouth and Huddersfield both spent huge and unsustainable amounts but got lucky. Burnley did very well in the transfer market and used the proceeds very efficiently. Leicester ran a huge wage budget in their promotion season. In fact, the only team that I can think of that has been promoted recently without spending big is Cardiff, and they still had huge backing from their owner. A lot of my misgivings over Lampard are conjecture and observational abstraction, ie, I could easily be wrong. Yet I don't think I'm being at all controversial when I say that without money he will fail as no team has been promoted since Blackpool without a very competitive wage budget, and the situation has changed a lot since Blackpool. ------------------ Blackpool's promotion was in 2010, but Burnley were promoted with a shoestring budget in 2013/14 when Derby finished 3rd. That season Burnley had only the 14th/15th biggest wages bill and were among the 4/5 favourites for relegation. They were forced to sell Charlie Austin for £4 million just two days before the start of the new season just to make ends meet. Dyche managed to get 3 free transfers that summer - Tom Heaton, Dave Jones & Scott Arfield - but his only "cash" signing that season was Ashey Barnes for £450k from Brighton in the January transfer window. And Barnes would NOT have been signed if Burnley had been mid-table. Until Barnes's arrival, the only senior striker on the books (injury cover for Ings and Vokes) was the hopeless Ryan Noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamNut Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 55 minutes ago, Grantona said: ------------------ Blackpool's promotion was in 2010, but Burnley were promoted with a shoestring budget in 2013/14 when Derby finished 3rd. That season Burnley had only the 14th/15th biggest wages bill and were among the 4/5 favourites for relegation. They were forced to sell Charlie Austin for £4 million just two days before the start of the new season just to make ends meet. Dyche managed to get 3 free transfers that summer - Tom Heaton, Dave Jones & Scott Arfield - but his only "cash" signing that season was Ashey Barnes for £450k from Brighton in the January transfer window. And Barnes would NOT have been signed if Burnley had been mid-table. Until Barnes's arrival, the only senior striker on the books (injury cover for Ings and Vokes) was the hopeless Ryan Noble. Dyche has done a great job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Whoneedshuls said: Me ? so when is frank supposed to be on tv duty for World Cup don’t think I’ve seen him yet.. Isn't he on the Beeb tonight covering the England game? There was also a piece on the BBC website giving Lamps England team - does it hint at how we'll set up next season or just what he'd do with the current England squad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1967Ram Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 I'm really optimistic for this season now. With Frank and Jody in charge I think we will try to play football which is better to watch. I'm really looking forward to seeing what happens in the transfer market - bringing in younger players from our Academy, lower leagues and further afield is the way forward IMO. I just had to check again when the fixtures were being released - can't wait for Thursday now! COYR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angieram Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Whoneedshuls said: Me ? so when is frank supposed to be on tv duty for World Cup don’t think I’ve seen him yet.. Was live on BBC Breakfast a short while ago predicting a 2-0 England win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CornwallRam Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 5 hours ago, Grantona said: ------------------ Blackpool's promotion was in 2010, but Burnley were promoted with a shoestring budget in 2013/14 when Derby finished 3rd. That season Burnley had only the 14th/15th biggest wages bill and were among the 4/5 favourites for relegation. They were forced to sell Charlie Austin for £4 million just two days before the start of the new season just to make ends meet. Dyche managed to get 3 free transfers that summer - Tom Heaton, Dave Jones & Scott Arfield - but his only "cash" signing that season was Ashey Barnes for £450k from Brighton in the January transfer window. And Barnes would NOT have been signed if Burnley had been mid-table. Until Barnes's arrival, the only senior striker on the books (injury cover for Ings and Vokes) was the hopeless Ryan Noble. Undoubtedly Dyche has done a fantastic job. I wouldn't say he achieved promotion on a shoe string though. Aside from the transfers you mention, he had paid over £2m for Shackell, Volkes, O'Neill and Porter as well as bringing Richards and Stock in on frees the previous season. During 13/14 he also brought in Ryan Noble on a free and Michael Kightley on loan. That all adds up to a competitive budget - mainly spent on wages. What is especially impressive though, is that that much of the budget was generated largely from the sales of Austin and Rodrigez. There were also parachute payments still in place - although they were far smaller than those in place now. Burnley got £8m for 12-13 and 13-14. The club apparently made a small £300k profit that season, before they paid out £7.9m in promotion bonuses. At first glance it looks like Burnley had a wage bill of about £15m that season, from memory Derby's was c£12m. That suggests that Dyche had considerable backing. He appears to have sold his most valuable player during both of his pre-promotion seasons, but then been allowed to reinvest that money on new players coming in. I can see Lampard being in a similar position with Vydra being sold for a good fee. If Lampard is then able to re-invest that money he has a chance of success. If however, the Vydra cash goes to reduce the deficit, Lampard will be on a hiding to nothing. The above is in no way meant to take away from the Burnley's achievement. Dyche got a competitive budget and utilised it to great effect. Many managers have failed to get close to promotion with far greater resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantona Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 19 hours ago, CornwallRam said: Undoubtedly Dyche has done a fantastic job. I wouldn't say he achieved promotion on a shoe string though. Aside from the transfers you mention, he had paid over £2m for Shackell, Volkes, O'Neill and Porter as well as bringing Richards and Stock in on frees the previous season. During 13/14 he also brought in Ryan Noble on a free and Michael Kightley on loan. That all adds up to a competitive budget - mainly spent on wages. What is especially impressive though, is that that much of the budget was generated largely from the sales of Austin and Rodrigez. There were also parachute payments still in place - although they were far smaller than those in place now. Burnley got £8m for 12-13 and 13-14. The club apparently made a small £300k profit that season, before they paid out £7.9m in promotion bonuses. At first glance it looks like Burnley had a wage bill of about £15m that season, from memory Derby's was c£12m. That suggests that Dyche had considerable backing. He appears to have sold his most valuable player during both of his pre-promotion seasons, but then been allowed to reinvest that money on new players coming in. I can see Lampard being in a similar position with Vydra being sold for a good fee. If Lampard is then able to re-invest that money he has a chance of success. If however, the Vydra cash goes to reduce the deficit, Lampard will be on a hiding to nothing. The above is in no way meant to take away from the Burnley's achievement. Dyche got a competitive budget and utilised it to great effect. Many managers have failed to get close to promotion with far greater resources. ......................................................................... Part of what you say is accurate but you are still wide of the mark to a certain extent - it was actually the under-achieving Eddie Howe who signed Shackell, Vokes, O'Neill & Porter - the last two of which barely played a game after Dyche arrived. Ryan Noble was just a squad filler on a "couple of hundred quid a week" and played about 3 games, if that. Stoke were still paying a big chunk of Kightly's wages. To put Dyche's budget restrictions into perspective, 4 first team players were out of contract that summer (2013) and were told that new deals would be offered but only at greatly reduced terms. Martin Paterson decided to go for more money at Huddersfield and Lee Grant, the then "Player of the Year", chose to go to Derby (obviously for a better deal). But Dean Marney & Ross Wallace had faith in Dyche and decided to take a pay cut (some say 40%). They were rewarded in style with promotion bonuses and, more importantly, top-flight football. Marney, in particular, was Burnley's most important player in 2013/14. Grant did go on to play PL football with Stoke but Paterson was a flop at Huddersfield and last I heard was plying his trade at a low level in the USA. Howe was relatively well-backed in his 18 months at Turf Moor and got us to 16th in the Championship when he upped sticks but Dyche - with his 2013/14 budget - should have been nowhere near the top six, never mind the top two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just to put things in perspective. James Maddison has signed for Leicester City from Norwich City for 22 Million pounds today SSN I am optimistic but things like this and Forest spending make me a bit sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, curtains said: Just to put things in perspective. Marcus Maddison has signed for Leicester City from Peterborough United for 22 Million pounds today SSN Derby were after him last season no wonder Posh didn’t sell him to us. Err they're signing James Maddison from Norwich https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44518422 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, RoyMac5 said: Err they're signing James Maddison from Norwich https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/44518422 Yes I got that wrong mate but still my point stands . We are not competitive anymore in the transfer market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, curtains said: Yes I got that wrong mate but still my point stands . We are not competitive anymore in the transfer market. I'm fairly sure that Leicester are in the premiership,with the associated budget. And we have been competitive in the championship market for the past four years with little to show for it. We were at our most competitive when we had a squad built under a limited budget and with the use of the academy back in 2013/14 and 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VulcanRam Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 15/06/2018 at 19:01, MackworthRamIsGod said: On this point. Harry Redknapp was interviewed by a local journalist this week and a quote from Harry was words to the effect "Frank will do well if he is allowed to do his thing", the journalist said Harry has elaborated on this and although the rest wasn't published Derby fans could "guess what he said". That suggested to me may be Frank is experiencing a meddling Morris already? If it does turn sour I could imagine it would damage the relationship between Morris and Redknapp, nowt like pooping in your own back yard. I am pretty sure this refers to when Harry was helping Wassall. Staff at the club I know said while he was with us he referred to it as a "basket case" and inferred at the time that Mel was indeed meddling. All might be different now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, curtains said: Yes I got that wrong mate but still my point stands . We are not competitive anymore in the transfer market. With our track record, I'd say that's probably a good thing! Saying that, come next summer where we have room in the budget again we'll probably go and make more bad decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramet Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 24 minutes ago, VulcanRam said: I am pretty sure this refers to when Harry was helping Wassall. Staff at the club I know said while he was with us he referred to it as a "basket case" and inferred at the time that Mel was indeed meddling. All might be different now. Mel was NEVER meddling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Ambitious said: With our track record, I'd say that's probably a good thing! Saying that, come next summer where we have room in the budget again we'll probably go and make more bad decisions. Mate do you envisage the squad we have at the moment being very similar at the start of the season . I would like us to give promotion one last go this season with Frank being allowed to retain players if he wants them and also be allowed to do his own thing regarding incomings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van der MoodHoover Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 hour ago, VulcanRam said: I am pretty sure this refers to when Harry was helping Wassall. Staff at the club I know said while he was with us he referred to it as a "basket case" and inferred at the time that Mel was indeed meddling. All might be different now. "Meddling"? Or peeping into 'arrys brown envelopes and checking under Rosie's collar? ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambitious Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 46 minutes ago, curtains said: Mate do you envisage the squad we have at the moment being very similar at the start of the season . I would like us to give promotion one last go this season with Frank being allowed to retain players if he wants them and also be allowed to do his own thing regarding incomings. I imagine the squad will be similar, yeah. I think between the world cup & the transfer window being a month shorter, it doesn't allow for much time to manoeuvre. Ultimately, if we were planning for wholesale changes then we would have at least started the ball rolling now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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