Curtains Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Paul71 said: Well they arent adrift by any means. Its in their hands too. It is but I think they will go down as they have played a game more than some and have tough fixtures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sith Happens Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, curtains said: It is but I think they will go down as they have played a game more than some and have tough fixtures Have you seen southamptons? And they way west ham are falling apart.... If i had to bet i wouldnt be betting on huddersfield going down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanFloEvraTheCocu'sNesta Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Mel wont put himself or the club in a position where we are risking the long term stability of the club trying to get promoted and he is absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 It's a problem every club in The Championship faces, not just us. Now we've seen WBA with all the PL millions struggling financially, so perhaps the promised land, is not the promised land. Football is at a cross roads, it can't keep spending like it does and sustain this many clubs. Morris is right, we can't keep throwing money at it. We have to cut our cloth and see what happens. My hope is that we can go back to what was promised earlier, a young hungry team. Morris eluded to the fan base not giving them the time but I would rather see a Lowe, Elsnik etc rather than buying a Ledley, Johnson. The reality is There will always be a couple of teams each season that throw everything at it, so it will make promotion harder and harder. The OP is right, it's a dilemma though. Crowds will dwindle, revenue will decrease. That will mean even more cloth cutting.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtains Posted March 28, 2018 Author Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 minutes ago, Paul71 said: Have you seen southamptons? And they way west ham are falling apart.... If i had to bet i wouldnt be betting on huddersfield going down. That’s the beauty of Football no one knows. Lets revist this at end of season and you can be right lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Davids absolutely right. It's about who you spend it on not how much you spent. Our what seems to have been a scattergun approach over the previous couple of years is coming back to bite us. Whoever thought spending £10 mil plus on butterfield and johnson needs shooting when we still had Bryson and hughes on the books. i believe we need 4 players of better quality and younger then what we currently have in certain positions. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to spend big or at all. A couple of those could be loans or possibly from the U23's. gary and Mel need to sort the business plan for the future of the club and not the future of players retirement plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Morris said when he came in that he didn’t intend on losing money on his investment, so there is no surprise that he has decided that we need to stop paying the kind of transfer fees we have been recently. Probably the rationale for bringing in GR to give the club stability over the next few years within mid table with still the hope that we may fall lucky one year, like Huddersfield for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Spanish said: Genuine question to you any others who follow academy outputs. Are we really that bad when compared with similar sized clubs? I don't know and it would be disappointing if we were poor Great question! And a very fair one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilkleyram Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Davids absolutely right. It's about who you spend it on not how much you spent. Our what seems to have been a scattergun approach over the previous couple of years is coming back to bite us. Whoever thought spending £10 mil plus on butterfield and johnson needs shooting when we still had Bryson and hughes on the books. i believe we need 4 players of better quality and younger then what we currently have in certain positions. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to spend big or at all. A couple of those could be loans or possibly from the U23's. gary and Mel need to sort the business plan for the future of the club and not the future of players retirement plans. I wouldn't disagree with your general sentiments Enigma and the 'scattergun' approach is down in part to a succession of short term managerial appointments. But the bit about Butterfield and Johnson is not fair. We lost Bryson and Hughes suddenly to long term injuries in a season where the expectation was promotion. After only a few games the general view was that Johnson was a steal at whatever price we paid; Butterfield came with a good reputation and at times played well. Had we not bought replacements then the accusation would have been that we had given up on promotion/had no ambition etc. Whether they are/were good value is a different argument. Notwithstanding any alleged fiduciary issues people knew we were both desperate and wealthy - a recipe for overpayment if ever there was one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssendonRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 15 minutes ago, EnigmaRam said: Davids absolutely right. It's about who you spend it on not how much you spent. Our what seems to have been a scattergun approach over the previous couple of years is coming back to bite us. Whoever thought spending £10 mil plus on butterfield and johnson needs shooting when we still had Bryson and hughes on the books. i believe we need 4 players of better quality and younger then what we currently have in certain positions. That doesn't necessarily mean we have to spend big or at all. A couple of those could be loans or possibly from the U23's. gary and Mel need to sort the business plan for the future of the club and not the future of players retirement plans. There’s no better description for how we have tried to get promoted than that IMO. The great shame of it is that, under the Americans, I (and others, I assume) kept saying how methodical the approach to improving the club’s business model had been across the board. On-field was, to be fair, the last big aspect of the club’s operation to evidence that improvement and it was certainly slow-and-steady, not revolutionary. The sooner we return to that the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnigmaRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, ilkleyram said: I wouldn't disagree with your general sentiments Enigma and the 'scattergun' approach is down in part to a succession of short term managerial appointments. But the bit about Butterfield and Johnson is not fair. We lost Bryson and Hughes suddenly to long term injuries in a season where the expectation was promotion. After only a few games the general view was that Johnson was a steal at whatever price we paid; Butterfield came with a good reputation and at times played well. Had we not bought replacements then the accusation would have been that we had given up on promotion/had no ambition etc. Whether they are/were good value is a different argument. Notwithstanding any alleged fiduciary issues people knew we were both desperate and wealthy - a recipe for overpayment if ever there was one. I'm saying that going out and BUYING players when you already have players still on the books was a bad call. We should have loaned or used academy players. I'm sure there we free transfers also. BUYING them meant we had far too many centre mids on full time contracts. personally I don't think johnsons had that bad a time here. He's scored goals, gives his all and always looks for the positive ball. Butterfield meanwhile, well, I don't want to go there!! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 3 hours ago, curtains said: Are you a sentimentalist mate. Maybe only players born in Derby should play for Derby. Failed transfers happen at every club but the trick is to get more right than wrong. I suppose I am , MATE . I'm quite aware of how it works and in an ideal world I'd like 50 % of our team to be made up of academy players with marquee signings making up the positions we lack from the academy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC4LIFE Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Feel like we will be in this league for a long while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, DCFC4LIFE said: Feel like we will be in this league for a long while with the parachute payments we won't be the only ones stuck. Every so often somebody will do a Sunderland but I think it will be less likely as time goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yani P Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 6 hours ago, David said: How many seasons do you keep speculating for if it doesn’t pay off? We spent more in transfer fees than Wolves have this season back in 15/16, we didn’t have a Mendes though. Another West Midlands side Villa, £80m isn’t it now over 2 seasons, one place above us in the table. It’s not how much you spend, it’s how you spend it. That is it in a nutshell - we have spent big but spent very poorly over the years - we have overspent on average players, Wolves have invested in real quality (and bought from overseas that we are totally useless at doing these days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archied Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 4 hours ago, EssendonRam said: There’s no better description for how we have tried to get promoted than that IMO. The great shame of it is that, under the Americans, I (and others, I assume) kept saying how methodical the approach to improving the club’s business model had been across the board. On-field was, to be fair, the last big aspect of the club’s operation to evidence that improvement and it was certainly slow-and-steady, not revolutionary. The sooner we return to that the better. Has to be remembered that even under the Americans we were losing money and they wanted out ,,, also keep seeing Huddersfield being held up as a bit of a template ,,,, could you imagine the reaction on here and the ground if we tried that template given the reaction to rowett s comparably hugely free scoring style ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram8 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Lots of common sense on this thread, but to simplify the issue, I think we should definitely keep Carson, Keogh, Davies, Huddlestone, Vydra and Martin of the senior players .. possibly Wisdom and Lawrence .. assess Thorne’s prospective long term fitness .. And next season, if (as is looking very likely) we are still in the Championship, play 4/5 of our Academy players; Elsnick, Lowe, Bogle, Guy, Hanson, Thomas all worthy of consideration ahead of some of our present first teamers in my opinion .. If we do go up to the Premiership, keep 4/5 of the above mentioned Senior players, buy 2/3 established (not TOO OLD) Premiership players, and still consider giving places to 2/3 of our Academy players .. If we continue to block the progress of our Academy graduates with too many ‘thirty somethings’ then the future will continue to be ‘short term’, and we will never achieve anything other than (at best) bottom six survival in the Premiership, and more likely the present / recent seasons situation of ‘play-off disappointment regulars’ ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 10 hours ago, curtains said: I don’t think Wolves are in trouble are they ! They are about to reap the many rewards of the Premier League Hmmm, could we please have a dose of Wolves troubles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BramcoteRam84 Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 We took the risk in 15/16, had our shot, our overspend, we ballsed it up and now we’re paying the price. If we have another go and it goes wrong we’ll end up like Forest were with a transfer embargo and max 10k per week wages for new signings!! Glad everyone can see now why Hughes and Ince had to go last summer, they wanted to go (which some people still can’t accept) but we also needed the cash. It’s also why he’s gone and signed the likes of Hudds Jerome Ledley, Davies because he hasn’t got the money to sign players of equivalent ability who are 25/26. It’s good therefore that of those 4 players only Jerome hasn’t been a success (but he also needs more time). It isn’t as bad as when clough took over but Rowett is working under the toughest conditions since clough, but with double the expectation. He has to find a balance of signing players to keep us competitive while balancing the books and hopefully enabling youth to come through. His record at Burton and Birmingham in overachieving with limited resources therefore becomes more pertinent. Given the constraints we have coming, Rowett is our best chance at remaining competitive. Another managerial change, even if we don’t make the playoffs would be catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayram Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Mel Morris has to take a large share of the blame for this himself. His chopping and changing managers completely destabilised the club, and apart from Pearson not one sacking was truly justified. If he had not behaved in this way I honestly believe either SM or PC would have got us up eventually and we would not have wasted so much money on some of the chod we have now. If Mel is telling us we are in for a period of austerity then that’s fine as long as he adjusts the prices of the match tickets etc accordingly. I’m not paying £35+ and doing a 230 round trip to watch some midtable borefest for the next 5 years. I suspect that what happened at the tail end of Nigel’s time in charge still happen again; fans will drift away and the whole atmosphere around the club will become stagnant. Let’s just hope we fluke the playoffs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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