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Would missing out on the play offs


toddy

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Would missing out on the play offs be should a bad thing?

I think we have been punching above our weight all season are now probably getting close to where we should be results wise.

GR could use this season as a bench mark on which positions need to be improved and bring players in for a real promotion push next season?

I think we have to be realistic, we have had a good season so far but are a bit short in quality to take us up. And to be very honest if we got up via the play offs we would need a 98% squad change just to be able to fight for survival in the premiership, [really don't need a 2008 repeat]

So maybe GR uses this season as experience and pushes on for next season?

What do others think?

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Gary rowett was brought in early in order that he could appraise the squad,  work out what needed doing and then have the whole preseason to execute his changes. 

In other words to avoid the situation we now find ourselves in. 

He's made a series of ballsy calls. He's delivered a newly formed squad,  with greatly improved cohesion according to some. And yet on the current trajectory of form the outcome looks potentially little better. 

Out of all that,  what basis would we have for thinking that next season would see great improvement? 

Personally I'm hanging my hat on bringing through some young gems out of our returning youth loans.  But I'm just guessing. I haven't heard Gary articulate anything that suggests this is indeed his long term plan.

And we get butters blackman bryson and Martin back come seasons end. Just to add to the mess.

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The way I feel after the last night I’d be happy to just end the season now with no play offs or anything, that equaliser gutted me last night but after such a poor performance what did we expect. Watching collapse after collapse is killing me and once again we seem like we have no plan B to turn things around.

Im starting to believe the collapse has happened so often it’s become ingrained into our club. 

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At the beginning of season I expected this to be a season of transition. This coming summer is when more players out of contract and was going to be window when he had a little more freedom to shape his squad. 

Had we started season slowly and gradually improved and we had just got into play offs in recent weeks I'd have been delighted and thought we'd over achieved. Because we over achieved prior to Christmas, the current situation seems disappointing. But if I reappraise on basis of what I expected at start of season I think we are doing ok. This summer is key 

I think the renewals of Fozzy and Thorne look, in hindsight, questionable. I worry we've limited our ability to change things around in midfield in particular.  We've got Thorne, Ledley, Huddlestone, Johnson all definitely here next year so I struggle to see a space in squad for the dynamic midfielder we need to inject pace.  Bryson (who isn't a GR player regardless of whether fans think he could do a job), Butterfield, Hanson all need to be shifted and that's easier said than done.  So I worry a bit that we will struggle to make the changes we need there.  My hope is that the answer is Elsnik! And we already have that player!

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37 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

If a rebuild is going to be required then surely the Premier League money would be helpful? 

True but surely the point is a rebuild is required to reach the premier league. Maybe Gary's plan (which looks like failing at the moment but the fat lady isn't singing yet) is to build a squad full of experience to get us there and then spend the millions on a proper rebuild.

 

 

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Where we finish is becoming irrelevant because I fear that this is turning into a major rebuild.

carson - good

wisdom - "dont talk to me about wisdom" mrs ram

fozzy - 33% pass accuracy

baird - 36

olsson - short 

anya - shorter

keogh - keogh

pearce - slow

davies - ok 

shackell - on his way

huddlestone - long ball

ledley - short term

george - damaged

hanson - irrelevant

butterfield - not wanted

bradley - the wheels have come off

elsnik - the great white hope

weimann - depends on the system

lawrence - not feeling the love

nuge - knackered

vydra - the next big fee earner

jerome - more stationary than WHSmiths

Martin - cold shouldered

bryson - see above 

blackman - can't we just pretend it never happened

So.......

whats our recruitment like?

 

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1 hour ago, toddy said:

Would missing out on the play offs be should a bad thing?

I think we have been punching above our weight all season are now probably getting close to where we should be results wise.

GR could use this season as a bench mark on which positions need to be improved and bring players in for a real promotion push next season?

I think we have to be realistic, we have had a good season so far but are a bit short in quality to take us up. And to be very honest if we got up via the play offs we would need a 98% squad change just to be able to fight for survival in the premiership, [really don't need a 2008 repeat]

So maybe GR uses this season as experience and pushes on for next season?

What do others think?

Yes and no.. 

No, because we are miles off being a PL team at the moment.

Yes, because we are becoming serial failures. How many years have we heard 'this time next year'. It's like a bloody episode of Only Fools and Horses. It's becoming, and I will use a @Lambchop phrase here.. 'A thing'. Every year, you can almost feel it in the air.. Nov & Dec come and go and it's like an elephant in the room. We have to break this cycle, even if it means going up and coming down battered and bruised. We are becoming a laughing stock. What will Rowett change next year that will make the difference? We went for experiance this term and so far it has not paid off. We have to get this monkey off our backs and we still have the opportunity this season. 

Yes, our expectations were lower than play off position this season. However the reality is, we got to second and bottled (I hate that term but it fits). We can't just ignore the fact that we were where we were.. The same old questions.. Why did we implode during these months.

Going up might go badly wrong but it would force us into a clear out. It might turn out to be a positive and I would gladly take that chance. 

 

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35 minutes ago, feisty said:

 We've got Thorne, Ledley, Huddlestone, Johnson all definitely here next year so I struggle to see a space in squad for the dynamic midfielder we need to inject pace.

This is our problem !

the defence proved that it is capable of keeping the ball out of the net with that ten game run, maintaining that consistency has proved impossible though.

with Nugent and Vydra we scored goals, in my option much of that was created through them falling deep to find the ball and assisting one another, also the tireless running and off the ball movement of Nugent created space for Vydra to work in.

the constant failing comes from the dads army in midfield, so slow and nervous, very little positivety and creativity!, they are all of the same ilk, there is no terrier type to chase down the opposition, no creative type to take the ball from box to box, no vision to spot the running of Nugent, Huddlestone at one time used to be able to land the ball on a six pence but now only 25% of his passes come of, Tom Lawrence has no end product, consistently wastes possession and can not deliver a final ball, leadley is way past his best like a wizened old man, Bradley Johnson just a bit part player instead of the ball winning, tackling player that he was when we signed him, Thorne who in my opinion was premier league class is still so far from fitness that we can not rely on him or build a team around him as we once hoped, Palmer has showed a couple of flashes of what we need but he is young and inexperienced, hopefully with more games he will improve and then leave us to go on and play for England like a number of our previous loanees!

get a couple of eager young energetic midfielders in and they could be the missing pieces of our jigsaw.

we have had a steady decline since Wembley, though it seems like yesterday it was four years ago ! Coming up for 200 weeks, that is a long way into the redevelopment plan.

even Derby city council with Banwait at the helm could beat that though the way that guy wastes money I don’t think we would be any better off.

If we are not going to finish top six I would at least hope we would finish this season with a clearer picture of where we are heading than when we started the season but at the moment the waters are very muddy !

 

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2 hours ago, toddy said:

So maybe GR uses this season as experience and pushes on for next season?

Fine but I'd still be gutted to not be involved in the play offs. We're not Forest fans - we don't want mid table mediocrity. 

In any case the play offs will be much less of a lottery this year with Fulham, Villa & Boro making up the other 3 - we'll have no chance. We might as well have the experience and a nice couple of days out :)

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7 hours ago, toddy said:

Would missing out on the play offs be should a bad thing?

I think we have been punching above our weight all season are now probably getting close to where we should be results wise.

GR could use this season as a bench mark on which positions need to be improved and bring players in for a real promotion push next season?

I think we have to be realistic, we have had a good season so far but are a bit short in quality to take us up. And to be very honest if we got up via the play offs we would need a 98% squad change just to be able to fight for survival in the premiership, [really don't need a 2008 repeat]

So maybe GR uses this season as experience and pushes on for next season?

What do others think?

I think that you have put into words exactly how I feel at the moment, bravo.

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9 hours ago, toddy said:

Would missing out on the play offs be should a bad thing?

I think we have been punching above our weight all season are now probably getting close to where we should be results wise.

GR could use this season as a bench mark on which positions need to be improved and bring players in for a real promotion push next season?

I think we have to be realistic, we have had a good season so far but are a bit short in quality to take us up. And to be very honest if we got up via the play offs we would need a 98% squad change just to be able to fight for survival in the premiership, [really don't need a 2008 repeat]

So maybe GR uses this season as experience and pushes on for next season?

What do others think?

I can see where your coming from but I disagree. I think it'd be pretty disastrous if we don't finish in the play offs this season and there's a few reasons for it. 

Rowett's transfer dealings (to my mind) have all been geared up to going up this season, he's mostly bought experienced/old players with a view that they can hit the ground running in his preferred system an their nous will carry us over the line. We now have an aging squad who will probably begin declining in ability (we could be seeing this already with Nugent). 

MM has said that if we don't up this we will have to a rethink and reign things in. To my mind this suggests a serious reduction in spending and possibly actively looking to offload and reduce the wage build. 

Finishing outside of the playoffs at the end of season will have been because of an absolute catastrophic run of form, going from 2nd at the start of the year to outside the playoffs in the summer is disastrous and has potential to destroy confidence and morale in the squad.

Also I don't see how Rowett can justifiably keep his job. Other managers have been sacked for less and I think all faith in him from the fanbase will be largely gone. 

So in summary in my opinion finishing outside the playoffs equates to going into next season with no manager, an aging squad lacking confidence and not a deal to spend to move players around. Too be honest I think if we don't go up this year (this will be lessened I think a bit) we could struggle for a good few years to maintain a challenge.

 

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26 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

Your right, I apologise I had it in my head we got further ahead than we did. 

I think my general point still stands though.

I just don't like inaccuracies that end up being repeated by others and then eventually become "fact" :lol:

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