G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 @86 points he did not have to have him on the bench. Just withdraw him from the squad and explain the reason why. Makes a lot more sense than having him on the bench, warming him up (I think), not using him and then saying he is injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 11 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: @86 points he did not have to have him on the bench. Just withdraw him from the squad and explain the reason why. Makes a lot more sense than having him on the bench, warming him up (I think), not using him and then saying he is injured. I'll try and explain this one more time - the squad had been named and Matej was injured during the warm up. As far as I'm aware, the squad can not then be changed, that is, you can't bring in a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, 86 points said: I'll try and explain this one more time - the squad had been named and Matej was injured during the warm up. As far as I'm aware, the squad can not then be changed, that is, you can't bring in a replacement. You're either deliberately missing my point, looking for an argument or both so will just leave it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 24 minutes ago, 86 points said: I'll try and explain this one more time - the squad had been named and Matej was injured during the warm up. As far as I'm aware, the squad can not then be changed, that is, you can't bring in a replacement. I think you are incorrect. If a player in the starting line up gets injured in the warm up you can replace them, and I believe the same goes for the subs. I remember in 96/97 season the was a tannoy announcement before the game for Marino Rahmburg to report to the changing rooms to get his kit on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellafella Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, rynny said: I think you are incorrect. If a player in the starting line up gets injured in the warm up you can replace them, and I believe the same goes for the subs. I remember in 96/97 season the was a tannoy announcement before the game for Marino Rahmburg to report to the changing rooms to get his kit on. Imagine you're about to take a sip of your 3rd pint and you hear that tannoy announcement and your name is Marino Rahmburg...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pearl Ram Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 If a kick exasperated the injury, did it not occur to brains Rowett the likelihood of him getting a kick during the actual match was going to be pretty high, thus the sub, had he come on, would have needed to be subbed, if there were any left. I’m guessing the kick he received in the warm up was a damn sight softer that the average kick he receives in a match so no, I won’t be offering an apology to Rowett a) because if he was carrying a knock a tap from a teammate was enough to put him out the game, he shouldn’t have been in the squad and b) if Rowett told me tomorrow was Wednesday, I’d have to check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 How would Rowett know that one kick would do to the injury? Should he have booted him a few times in training to see how he reacts? Come on now, this is getting daft, you realise we have a medical team that would be advising Rowett on which players are available, clearly he was passed fit enough for a place on the bench. After that what happened happened, maybe he didn’t feel he had any other options to replace him with in the matchday squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 56 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: You're either deliberately missing my point, looking for an argument or both so will just leave it there. I'm neither, I've politely tried to explain what I think the rationale behind naming Vydra in the squad was and that's all. The gaffer thought he might be able to use him despite the fact that he was carrying a mild strain, he named him in the squad, during the pre-match warm-up the player aggravated the injury and as such could not play nor could he be replaced on the bench as the squad had already been submitted. How is that argumentative? Jeez! If your point is simply that he should not have been allowed on the bench then fair enough, if that bothers you. Personally I don't see the issue and it's not because I'm looking for an argument or deliberately ignoring whatever the point is you are trying to make. Sorry!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 51 minutes ago, rynny said: I think you are incorrect. If a player in the starting line up gets injured in the warm up you can replace them, and I believe the same goes for the subs. I remember in 96/97 season the was a tannoy announcement before the game for Marino Rahmburg to report to the changing rooms to get his kit on. If that's the case then I stand corrected but the reason he was initially included in the squad remains valid, that is, the manager, the player himself and presumably the medical team all felt he stood a chance of playing, even if only as a late sub. Anyways, if folk want to believe they've been misled, fair enough. Each to their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, 86 points said: I'll try and explain this one more time - the squad had been named and Matej was injured during the warm up. As far as I'm aware, the squad can not then be changed, that is, you can't bring in a replacement. Taken from the EFL website, I'll stick the link in if possible. 33.7 Replacement of injured Players prior to kick-off. Should any nominated Player or substitute sustain an injury or become otherwise incapacitated after the submission of the Team Sheet to the Referee and before the kick-off, he may be replaced; the Referee shall be informed. Should there be any other extenuating circumstances which require a nominated Player or substitute to be replaced during the aforementioned period, the Referee shall allow such replacement and report the full circumstances to The League. The League shall then initiate any inquiries it may deem fit so as to satisfy itself as to the bona fide nature of the replacement. https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-5--fixtures/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 @Rynny & @G STAR RAMSo here is what I can find in the rules: (ii) Should any nominated player or substitute sustain an injury after the submission of the Official Team Sheet to the Referee and before the kick-off, he may be replaced without fine if he is injured warming up after the exchange of the Official Team Sheet, provided the Referee and opponents are informed before the commencement of the match. So the question is, were the match officials and Reading informed of the injury prior to kick off. If not, Vydra could not be subbed out. And if they were informed, was an alternative striker present at the ground who could have taken his place? Without knowing whether either was the case, the inference that Rowett has lied about it seems a bit strong. I'm not sure why folk are getting so upset about this line of thought. It's as least as reasonable as the conspiracy theories being bandied about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 18 minutes ago, 86 points said: I'm neither, I've politely tried to explain what I think the rationale behind naming Vydra in the squad was and that's all. The gaffer thought he might be able to use him despite the fact that he was carrying a mild strain, he named him in the squad, during the pre-match warm-up the player aggravated the injury and as such could not play nor could he be replaced on the bench as the squad had already been submitted. How is that argumentative? Jeez! If your point is simply that he should not have been allowed on the bench then fair enough, if that bothers you. Personally I don't see the issue and it's not because I'm looking for an argument or deliberately ignoring whatever the point is you are trying to make. Sorry!!! Maybe crossed wires and if so, I hold my hands up I apologise. I thought Vydra was warming up during the game but my eyes were obviously wrong. Apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 8 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Maybe crossed wires and if so, I hold my hands up I apologise. I thought Vydra was warming up during the game but my eyes were obviously wrong. Apologies No apologies needed bud. Interestingly, if Vydra was warming up during the game then we've probably solved the mystery! If despite the knock, they still believed he might be ok for a cameo / late sub, they may not have declared the player unfit in which case he could not have been replaced (see earlier post with official ruling on subs). Kind of a risky gamble if this is the case but it would explain why he remained on the bench. I think Vyds is very much a go-to player for Rowett and rightly so given his current form so perhaps they pushed the envelope further than they might had it been another player? It's a kind of s*** or bust strategy tbf and one that clearly didn't work out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 minute ago, 86 points said: No apologies needed bud. Interestingly, if Vydra was warming up during the game then we've probably solved the mystery! If despite the knock, they still believed he might be ok for a cameo / late sub, they may not have declared the player unfit in which case he could not have been replaced (see earlier post with official ruling on subs). Kind of a risky gamble if this is the case but it would explain why he remained on the bench. I think Vyds is very much a go-to player for Rowett and rightly so given his current form so perhaps they pushed the envelope further than they might had it been another player? I sit in East Stand and was not wearing my specs so I could be completely wrong and looking back through this thread I can't see anyone else agreeing that he was warming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 So many conspiracy theories around the club that really have no substance but this is one that I’m not sure I entirely believe the club. Was he carrying an injury, highly probable, did he receive a kick that made the injury worse I’m not so sure. I must admit I thought I saw him warm up at one point, and had GR even mentioned this on his post match interview id probably buy into the story. However I think that GR just didn’t think that he would influence the game with the tactics deployed in the second half, no issue with that as I don’t believe that he would have and the resul just for this reason. Personally and I must admit I don’t think he is a good manager so that does influence me, but he looks for excuses at ever opportunity and never holds his hands up, it’s always the players or an injury and therefore I think he got wind of the criticism hence why the kickgate story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, rynny said: I think you are incorrect. If a player in the starting line up gets injured in the warm up you can replace them, and I believe the same goes for the subs. I remember in 96/97 season the was a tannoy announcement before the game for Marino Rahmburg to report to the changing rooms to get his kit on. Or more hilariously, they had to fetch Ray Parlour to take somebody’s place on the bench. By this stage he was already five pints deep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrade 86 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 Just now, G STAR RAM said: I sit in East Stand and was not wearing my specs so I could be completely wrong and looking back through this thread I can't see anyone else agreeing that he was warming up. Fair dos! I need specs to find my specs so you have my sympathies. It's funny how this has become such an emotive subject in any case. I guess it's just the low after the high. We certainly came down to earth with a bump though I'm not entirely convinced that the previous games indicated as much progress as some assumed. Heyho - we go again next week and given Gorgeous George was not in the U23's last night, I'd hope that's a portent to him starting the game against Ipswich. If we can keep him fit I can see us hanging in amongst the play-off slots and I'm still hopeful we can strengthen the squad in January. I like to think it might still be a decent season for a club in the middle of a major transition, but I am a perennial happy-clapper. COYR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, cannable said: Or more hilariously, they had to fetch Ray Parlour to take somebody’s place on the bench. By this stage he was already five pints deep Probably played the best game of his life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PodgeyRam Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: I sit in East Stand and was not wearing my specs so I could be completely wrong and looking back through this thread I can't see anyone else agreeing that he was warming up. 1 hour ago, 86 points said: No apologies needed bud. Interestingly, if Vydra was warming up during the game then we've probably solved the mystery! If despite the knock, they still believed he might be ok for a cameo / late sub, they may not have declared the player unfit in which case he could not have been replaced (see earlier post with official ruling on subs). Kind of a risky gamble if this is the case but it would explain why he remained on the bench. I think Vyds is very much a go-to player for Rowett and rightly so given his current form so perhaps they pushed the envelope further than they might had it been another player? It's a kind of s*** or bust strategy tbf and one that clearly didn't work out! I'm probably just fanning the flames at this point, but I was sat in the West Stand next to where the subs warm up and Vydra definitely got up and warmed up during the first half. I distinctly remember this because we were 2-0 down at the time. I was looking to see if Rowett was going to change it and low and behold, out comes Vydra to warm up. He got a nice little ripple of applause from the crowd as he did so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyhill60 Posted November 7, 2017 Share Posted November 7, 2017 1 hour ago, G STAR RAM said: Maybe crossed wires and if so, I hold my hands up I apologise. I thought Vydra was warming up during the game but my eyes were obviously wrong. Apologies Vydra was in the first pair to warm up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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