Nuwtfly Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 15 hours ago, Jourdan said: It's painfully clear to see that Rowett is not the man to take us forwards, whatever the remit. What's painful is reading sweeping statements like this. Go and take a read of the wonderful analogy @Kernow used yesterday to describe the hand in which Rowett has been dealt at this club. Are you genuinely naive enough to think that all our problems were going to be fixed over the summer? Or in one transfer window? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Fair point David but you're stretching the hypothetical bit beyond the sentiment of the thread somewhat with your "if we'd just held on?...and just nicked that one?...not conceded in this one? blah..blah..! The fact is GR has had the end of last season, a closed season to prepare, the beginning of this season, and a transfer window. All of which have been poor. We have gone backwards not forwards. Lost and loaned good players and brought in lesser quality (I'm trying to be polite there!) And as a result we have had to lower our expectations as fans from promotion hopefuls to being satisfied with mid-table (at best). But not only mid table, having to tolerate the most drab football en-route. If there was some glimmer of light, some nugget of quality indicating better things to come, believe me I'd be one of those supporting the notion of giving him more time. It's been said in earlier posts, many of those now touting for patience were calling for the heads of Clement and Mac 2, despite far far better performances and results in the same comparable period of tenure! And despite those of us who wanted to see that same patient stance to be taken for the afore-mentioned, there was none of it. 5th IN THE LEAGUE IN CLEMS CASE!!!!!! So you're own hypothetical would be fine if we could simply string some passes together and retain some possession. 22% last night was it??? If we are to apply the same rules and expectations to GR as for PC and SM, then he's got to go now! IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 55 minutes ago, David said: See the word “hypothetical” in the topic title. Fair point David but you're stretching the hypothetical bit beyond the sentiment of the thread somewhat with your "if we'd just held on?...and just nicked that one?...not conceded in this one? blah..blah..! The fact is GR has had the end of last season, a closed season to prepare, the beginning of this season, and a transfer window. All of which have been poor. We have gone backwards not forwards. Lost and loaned good players and brought in lesser quality (I'm trying to be polite there!) And as a result we have had to lower our expectations as fans from promotion hopefuls to being satisfied with mid-table (at best). But not only mid table, having to tolerate the most drab football en-route. If there was some glimmer of light, some nugget of quality indicating better things to come, believe me I'd be one of those supporting the notion of giving him more time. It's been said in earlier posts, many of those now touting for patience were calling for the heads of Clement and Mac 2, despite far far better performances and results in the same comparable period of tenure! And despite those of us who wanted to see that same patient stance to be taken for the afore-mentioned, there was none of it. 5th IN THE LEAGUE IN CLEMS CASE!!!!!! So you're own hypothetical would be fine if we could simply string some passes together and retain some possession. 22% last night was it??? If we are to apply the same rules and expectations to GR as for PC and SM, then he's got to go now! IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, The Arch Deacon said: Fair point David but you're stretching the hypothetical bit beyond the sentiment of the thread somewhat with your "if we'd just held on?...and just nicked that one?...not conceded in this one? blah..blah..! You can't really stretch hypothetical if you're being hypothetical, that's the point of being hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnero Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 minute ago, David said: You can't really stretch hypothetical if you're being hypothetical, that's the point of being hypothetical. Some of us can. Some of us can even swing it around our head, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Just now, Saul Pimpson said: Some of us can. Some of us can even swing it around our head, Is that the new Lukaku song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Ninos said: You don't wave wands and you don't necessarily get them to play exactly as you like straight away, especially if the plan has some detail where you have to transmit the ideas to players. It takes some time. Having to put Weimann in, playing a rusty Ledley and a returning Fozzy with a new striker and a new spot for Jonno didn't help accelerate things and were contributing factors to the disjointedness with the ball. It clicked pretty decently for day 1 of the away day method. clueless he isn't Clueless he is! He knew about the personnel issues when he sold and loaned the best players in the squad, and replaced them with lesser. Now....if he'd said..... "Listen Mel, and you long suffering fans, and team players! we're gonna go backwards for a while. I'm gonna get rid of the quality and replace it with mediocrity, It's gonna be painful to watch with average teams passing the ball around us like Barcelona while we back off and play the quick break game....which I haven't worked on yet or got the players to do! We're gonna struggle to string more than 2 passes together (despite the 20k a week wages!!) but when Tom get's it he's gonna punt it long into the corners like Jonnie Wilkinson looking for touch! We're gonna finish in the bottom half and it's gonna be the worst football seen at PP in a generation. Crowds will dwindle and there will be unrest on the terraces. But stay with me cos we're gonna turn the corner together!...I'm not sure how yet, but I'm working on that one because as yet I have no vision or direction. I'm praying that will come to me as we stumble along aimlessly." Now if he'd said that, he would have my backing......I would never have renewed my season pass, but he would have had my backing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, David said: You can't really stretch hypothetical if you're being hypothetical, that's the point of being hypothetical. But you can take hypothetical to the point at which it turns into absolute bo*&*cks though, and I suggest that's what you did.....hence the auntie uncle analogy!....IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waffle Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 I'm not a Rowett Outer. But I've always thought Laudrup would be a good fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 59 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: What's painful is reading sweeping statements like this. Go and take a read of the wonderful analogy @Kernow used yesterday to describe the hand in which Rowett has been dealt at this club. Are you genuinely naive enough to think that all our problems were going to be fixed over the summer? Or in one transfer window? I can understand people's frustrations with GR despite the very difficult job he has on his hands. He's tried to be positive with how he's talking about us as a squad and how we can move forward, and probably tried to promise too much. He called us a top-two side which we clearly are not, and that's going to be used against him to make his job harder. He's had one transfer window and he's said himself he hadn't be able to do anywhere near what he ideally wanted to do in this window. I hope he puts more of a focus towards building a strong core of the squad that can form our future in the January window, or the summer if he has that long. I was tempted to start a thread about this but I didn't think we needed yet another thread questioning GR/the squad. In let's say three years, how many players in our current 'first choice' XI will be able to continue at the standard that we want to be and play an active role in a promotion challenging side? Keogh, Davies, Huddlestone, Johnson, Nugent and arguably Carson will be past it. I would continue to give him time but I'm not overly confident that his first transfer window has made his long-term job any easier going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 29 minutes ago, The Arch Deacon said: But you can take hypothetical to the point at which it turns into absolute bo*&*cks though, and I suggest that's what you did.....hence the auntie uncle analogy!....IMO Well we're talking about appointing a manager for a job that doesn't even exist, isn't that absolute b*******? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Replacing Gary.... Well to keep the fan base happy the new manager would need to- 1..Win every game 5-0. 2. Never lose or draw. 3. Play like Brazil in the 70's Or we could just keep Gary and give him time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 19 minutes ago, JaguarRam said: Replacing Gary.... Well to keep the fan base happy the new manager would need to- 1..Win every game 5-0. 2. Never lose or draw. 3. Play like Brazil in the 70's Or we could just keep Gary and give him time. I'd replace that with.... 1) Look like we are improving 2) Be slightly entertaining even if we win,draw or lose That's all we need to believe a bit..... I don't think that's too much to ask I've yet to see signs of either occurring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRam Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 6 hours ago, David said: I agree but results tend to calm a lot of those complaints as at the end of the day it is a results business. Serious question, had we beat Birmingham and Brentford last night, if buts and maybes I know, but would you have posted your thread last night? I will say no, you still wouldn't be happy with the performance and rightly so, but it's the results that are the trigger to all anger after the final whistle You are correct the results are what determines if a manager is successful or not, I'm sure arsenal fans would much rather have the boring 1-0 wins that the past few seasons where they play entertaining football but invariably fail every time. Problem is though, we don't look like winning, we aren't playing football that would indicate we are going to start winning more than we lose, and we have a manager who is doing the opposite to what he said when he first came here. E.g. Young hungry players. King Billy is the modest successful manager we have had since Smith and didn't play attractive football and during that season no one minded, he though brought players in to implement his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Nuwtfly said: What's painful is reading sweeping statements like this. Go and take a read of the wonderful analogy @Kernow used yesterday to describe the hand in which Rowett has been dealt at this club. Are you genuinely naive enough to think that all our problems were going to be fixed over the summer? Or in one transfer window? Why is it naive to expect signs of improvement, however small they may be? No-one has said that everything should have been fixed over the summer and we should be storming the league. But a few tangible signs that a plan is in place, the club is moving in the right direction and everyone is on board with Rowett surely can't be too much to ask? Which problems has Rowett solved? Which problems has Rowett created through his own decision making? I stand by my statement. Everything we've seen points to this job being too big for Rowett. It's not an easy job, I completely agree. But it is not an impossible job either. But if you put the job in the wrong hands, it will seem like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuwtfly Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, Jourdan said: Why is it naive to expect signs of improvement, however small they may be? No-one has said that everything should have been fixed over the summer and we should be storming the league. But a few tangible signs that a plan is in place, the club is moving in the right direction and everyone is on board with Rowett surely can't be too much to ask? Which problems has Rowett solved? Which problems has Rowett created through his own decision making? I stand by my statement. Everything we've seen points to this job being too big for Rowett. It's not an easy job, I completely agree. But it is not an impossible job either. But if you put the job in the wrong hands, it will seem like it. No signs of improvement at all? So the Hull City game didn't happen? Your posts are normally very concise, well worded and sensible, so perhaps that's why I'm so surprised to see you, of all posters, to be championing th in Rowett out banner after nine league games this season. Nine league games. Directly to the part in bold, I would challenge that all of these things were there after the Hull game. There was a massive buzz around the place after the recent fans forum event. But, yet again, three games without a win and we are all of a sudden a diabolical side, our players don't care, and the job is suddenly "too big" for Rowett. These kind of reactions as a fan base just aren't sustainable. If people carry on as they are, we'll never get through an entire season with one manager. Very sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
europia Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 2 hours ago, David said: Well we're talking about appointing a manager for a job that doesn't even exist, isn't that absolute b*******? We are also talking about DCFC and MM.....so maybe not so b******* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said: No signs of improvement at all? So the Hull City game didn't happen? Your posts are normally very concise, well worded and sensible, so perhaps that's why I'm so surprised to see you, of all posters, to be championing th in Rowett out banner after nine league games this season. Nine league games. Directly to the part in bold, I would challenge that all of these things were there after the Hull game. There was a massive buzz around the place after the recent fans forum event. But, yet again, three games without a win and we are all of a sudden a diabolical side, our players don't care, and the job is suddenly "too big" for Rowett. These kind of reactions as a fan base just aren't sustainable. If people carry on as they are, we'll never get through an entire season with one manager. Very sad. But that's one game out of eleven competitive fixtures. It will probably be the highlight of our season and the only game in which it all clicks in such a way. Of course we were all going to be united in our delight after such a result. Have we seen a display since mirroring that even a touch? I'm not anti-Rowett. I'm not even calling for his head. Of course, I would love for him to succeed here. But a bit of consistency would be nice. A consistent philosophy, a consistent transfer strategy, consistent statements in the media, consistent team selection. So we can get a flavour for what he's trying to work towards and we can set well-reasoned expectations. Everything just seems terribly erratic and there is just a lack of conviction in what he's doing. Like I said to Ninos before, I'm usually one of the posters who advocates time for a manager. I was bemused when Clement, Pearson and most recently McClaren were all sacked. But with Rowett? There is an inevitability about it. History suggests he is on borrowed time and I wouldn't be disappointed to see him leave, based on what we've seen so far. Aside from perhaps the Hull and Fulham wins at home, most of it points to him not having too much of a grasp on how to get us moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Mac, Simmo, Eric. Top coaches the 3 of them. Made for one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Deacon Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 3 hours ago, David said: Well we're talking about appointing a manager for a job that doesn't even exist, isn't that absolute b*******? No! Debating a potential replacement for a struggling manager is a reasonable hypothetical debate! Dreaming about what might have happened if results had been different is asking to turn back the clock to change facts! Hence a load of bol@&£?s! The difference is fecking obvious David!!! Come on mate! You're brighter than this!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.