Replacing Gary....a hypothetical question

[cheron85]

18 minutes ago, David said:

Had we managed a late winner v Birmingham and held on last night, the atmosphere would be much different.

Except that the fact we're saying "had we managed a late winner v Birmingham" is part of the problem - At home against a team which is hard-working and organised but technically poor - Are probably going to be playing relegation-escape football all season

If we were a genuine contender for a top 6 place at this point we should have stuffed them - I didn't feel like they deserved a draw on Saturday but I'd be hard pressed to say we deserved a win

Equally holding on at the end against a team below us, who've started poorly and lost their best player this summer would have been acceptable - If it wasn't holding on from 15 minutes in - If we'd given them a decent challenge for 80 mins and then been up against it for the last 10 then I'd be singing about how robbed we were - But that wasn't the case - We were completely outplayed last night

If we were in the top 6 at this point we'd be doing this league a disservice...

[Day]

2 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

If we were a genuine contender for a top 6 place at this point we should have stuffed them

Leeds lost to Millwall
Norwich drew with Burton
Fulham lost to Burton
Sheff Wed lost to Sheff Utd
Cardiff lost to Preston

It's like we never learn that teams drop points to those below them and that every game is worth 3pts regardless of who you play.

Don't get me wrong, we should go into these games believing we should be winning them, but when we drop points not act like we have just made the back page headline of every paper going.

[brady1993]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Leeds lost to Millwall
Norwich drew with Burton
Fulham lost to Burton
Sheff Wed lost to Sheff Utd
Cardiff lost to Preston

It's like we never learn that teams drop points to those below them and that every game is worth 3pts regardless of who you play.

Don't get me wrong, we should go into these games believing we should be winning them, but when we drop points not act like we have just made the back page headline of every paper going.

It isn't just one game though is it ? How many games this season can you say we genuinely played well ? 

Hull, half a game against Preston and half a game against Bolton are all that springs to mind.

[stoneyram]

2 minutes ago, David said:

Leeds lost to Millwall
Norwich drew with Burton
Fulham lost to Burton
Sheff Wed lost to Sheff Utd
Cardiff lost to Preston

It's like we never learn that teams drop points to those below them and that every game is worth 3pts regardless of who you play.

Don't get me wrong, we should go into these games believing we should be winning them, but when we drop points not act like we have just made the back page headline of every paper going.

its not the results that people are worried about .Its the way we are playing (style of play)

Cant defend for 90 mins(park the bus )and hit teams on the break.

Yes our team is the fit because we are chasing shadows all game.

we use to do that to other teams but that has gone. WHY.........? Gary has only every being at clubs which are rubbish ,we are a step to far for him SORRY. Hes a nice guy but sinking fast 

[TroyDyer]

I would expect us to get a good hiding (if not on the scoreboard, certainly on the pitch) on Saturday, and then that sets up a rather ugly game against Forest the following week. A defeat there aswell and I fear this thread might not be hypothetical any more. 

He needs time, but he won't get it. 

[Day]

1 minute ago, stoneyram said:

its not the results that people are worried about .Its the way we are playing (style of play)

I agree but results tend to calm a lot of those complaints as at the end of the day it is a results business.

Serious question, had we beat Birmingham and Brentford last night, if buts and maybes I know, but would you have posted your thread last night?

I will say no, you still wouldn't be happy with the performance and rightly so, but it's the results that are the trigger to all anger after the final whistle

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

44 minutes ago, David said:

I think this actually says a lot. 

We bang on about being entertained but if the results are there we are willing to let it slide a little. Had we managed a late winner v Birmingham and held on last night, the atmosphere would be much different. Nobody would be swinging from the trees shouting this is great but we would be in 8th place today, 2pts off the top 6 with a game in hand.

Win that, 4th.

We're not fans that would sacrifice results and enjoy staying in the Championship with entertaining football. 

All those that say they don't want Premier League rubbish are talking out their pooper shoot, that's exactly where we want to be and as Karanka recently took a side up, no surprise he's a name that has been thrown out there.

Reason so many are questioning Rowett has little to do with entertainment, it's results. A club of Derby County's size should not be drawing with the likes of Brentford and Birmingham, do we know who we are?

Some will deny it but in another breath claim football is a results business which is true, it is.

I don't agree....I want to enjoy watching my football and results will follow if the footballs good.....i dont think the majority of those moaning are focussed on the results but on the dire gameplay we have witnessed.

If we had won lat night or on Saturday I would still be angry about how we are playing ...but then again,it was extremely unlikely that we would have won either game with the manner in which we 'played'

[Day]

5 minutes ago, brady1993 said:

It isn't just one game though is it ? How many games this season can you say we genuinely played well ? 

Hull, half a game against Preston and half a game against Bolton are all that springs to mind.

Not saying it is, what I'm saying is when the results are there more allowances are made for poor performances.

As I just said to Stoney, hold on for 3 points last night, grab a winner v Birmingham. No change in the overall performances, today would be a totally different atmosphere. We'd be 2pts off top 6 with a game in hand.

But we're not. When results and performances are not going your way thats a double whammy. 

[Day]

2 minutes ago, kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong said:

I don't agree....I want to enjoy watching my football and results will follow if the footballs good.....i dont think the majority of those moaning are focussed on the results but on the dire gameplay we have witnessed.

If we had won lat night or on Saturday I would still be angry about how we are playing ...but then again,it was extremely unlikely that we would have won either game with the manner in which we 'played'

That's fine, but I see it time and time again on here. We win a game, anything negative about the performance is shut down, must be Forest fans. Don't even know where I mentioned it earlier now, but Bris after the 5-0 win v Hull was laughed off. Another member made complaints on possession but also laughed off, think I even was one. Ellafella I believe it was (sorry if wrong) 

Performances become more of a problem when the results are not there. Not for everybody but a large number.

[stoneyram]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Not saying it is, what I'm saying is when the results are there more allowances are made for poor performances.

As I just said to Stoney, hold on for 3 points last night, grab a winner v Birmingham. No change in the overall performances, today would be a totally different atmosphere. We'd be 2pts off top 6 with a game in hand.

But we're not. When results and performances are not going your way thats a double whammy. 

we did not do that because of the way we are playing 

we will lose more than we win , you can see that 

 

[kash_a_ram_a_ding_dong]

2 minutes ago, David said:

That's fine, but I see it time and time again on here. We win a game, anything negative about the performance is shut down, must be Forest fans. Don't even know where I mentioned it earlier now, but Bris after the 5-0 win v Hull was laughed off. Another member made complaints on possession but also laughed off, think I even was one. Ellafella I believe it was (sorry if wrong) 

Performances become more of a problem when the results are not there. Not for everybody but a large number.

It's true, results are a great pacifier but I remember bris's post being flamed by the very same people who are defending rowett now.....it's generally the positive posters in the past who were fed up now,which is a little bizarre and quite indicative of the unrest in here.

[cheron85]

16 minutes ago, David said:

Don't get me wrong, we should go into these games believing we should be winning them, but when we drop points not act like we have just made the back page headline of every paper going.

I know - But so far our only 'odd' result has been stuffing Hull - There's a massive difference between Leeds losing to Millwall and sitting second and us dropping points to 3 of the bottom 5 - If yesterday had been a blip I would be disappointed but understand that's the championship - So far this season yesterday seems to be the norm for us, not the blip

[brady1993]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Not saying it is, what I'm saying is when the results are there more allowances are made for poor performances.

As I just said to Stoney, hold on for 3 points last night, grab a winner v Birmingham. No change in the overall performances, today would be a totally different atmosphere. We'd be 2pts off top 6 with a game in hand.

But we're not. When results and performances are not going your way thats a double whammy. 

Maybe your right. Personally Id still be very concerned about Rowett even had we held on last night.

 

[Day]

Just now, stoneyram said:

we did not do that because of the way we are playing 

we will lose more than we win , you can see that 

That's not the question, I'm asking had we won "hypothetically" would you have posted it?

I'm not trying to have a pop, single you out, just point out that results can change an atmosphere regardless of performance.

Yes, you still walk away saying that was utter s****, at least we won and off down the pub for a pint.

s**** performance with no 3 points, I'm off on the internet to get this clown out my club, better not go down the pub I'll end up sparking someone out. 

[GloryHunter]

[Day]

5 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I know - But so far our only 'odd' result has been stuffing Hull - There's a massive difference between Leeds losing to Millwall and sitting second and us dropping points to 3 of the bottom 5 - If yesterday had been a blip I would be disappointed but understand that's the championship - So far this season yesterday seems to be the norm for us, not the blip

Might be a poor example, but in the hypothetical thread I'm in the world that we've also beaten Birmingham and Brentford, these fine margins that can flip an entire mood. Honestly can't say I've seen a great deal of Leeds to know how well they have been playing, heard they got absolutely battered at Millwall, was thanks to their keeper it wasn't a complete embarrassment. That may have been a one off so more forgivable. 

[GboroRam]

1 minute ago, David said:

Might be a poor example, but in the hypothetical thread I'm in the world that we've also beaten Birmingham and Brentford, these fine margins that can flip an entire mood. Honestly can't say I've seen a great deal of Leeds to know how well they have been playing, heard they got absolutely battered at Millwall, was thanks to their keeper it wasn't a complete embarrassment. That may have been a one off so more forgivable. 

I think there's a sizeable part of the fan base who want to see good entertaining football, with style, first and foremost. 

There's another sizeable part of the fan base who want to see winning football.

During Clements time, the second group were happy and the first group not.

During Macs time, the first group were happy and the second not.

Now both aren't happy.

[cheron85]

4 minutes ago, David said:

Might be a poor example, but in the hypothetical thread I'm in the world that we've also beaten Birmingham and Brentford, these fine margins that can flip an entire mood. Honestly can't say I've seen a great deal of Leeds to know how well they have been playing, heard they got absolutely battered at Millwall, was thanks to their keeper it wasn't a complete embarrassment. That may have been a one off so more forgivable. 

I buy the argument - My Dad always uses the old adage that a good team can play badly and win - The problem is we seem to have only played well in 1 game this season - Potentially 2 as I didn't go to Bolton, but they seem to be playing a league above their talent levels at the moment

I keep saying there's talent in this squad - We just need to fins the right way to use it - The Hull game shows that - QAnd I want to keep Rowett to give the squad some consistency

But these performances have been dire - And some of Rowett's decision making has been even worse

[Joel]

Pardiola.

[The Arch Deacon]

13 hours ago, Jourdan said:

I never really understood why we went to such great lengths to appoint Rowett in the first place.

It was a trendy, en vogue appointment rather than one with much logic attached to it, especially if promotion was the goal.

People are saying he needs time and this season is a free hit. After Pearson left, the remainder of last season was supposed to be a free hit for McClaren and look what happened there!

Mel is not a changed man. Let's not kid ourselves, this is a stay of execution for Rowett and the moment Mel stumbles across a manager he thinks can do better with the cards dealt, Rowett will be gone.

At the moment, Rowett is making Bruce at Villa look semi-competent. It's that bad.

Agree entirely!

It's our dramatic lowering of expectations versus Mac 2 and Clement that's bought him til now!

Our pathetic acceptance of absolutely shockingly poor football is saving his bacon and making this club a laughing stock!