What do you really think of Morris?

[TobyWanKenobi]

2 hours ago, ossieram said:

Why will Mel be judged on a player that Gary Rowett signs?

I don't think Gary will be writing many cheques.

[rammieib]

On 23 June 2017 at 22:30, David said:

Do you want a meddling chairman or not, that is the question. You can't pick and choose for each transfer you agree with.

Let's say Hughes doesn't fit into Rowett's plans, does Mel block the transfer and say no you must play Hughes or does he respect the managers wishes and move him on?

We know the answer because it's been said time and time again, he will always back the manager 100%. 

Wasn't long ago a lot of members on this forum didn't like the head coach system, they wanted a manager to come in that has full control. We have that now. Rowett has even been intereviewed on Rams TV on how he's talking to agents each day.

I know I come across as a Mel apologist but if a finger of blame has to be pointed, aim it at Rowett, not that I'm suggesting we all grab our pitchforks and head for his office. Hughes may simply not fit the way Rowett wants to play, the signs were there at the end of last season, think we all including myself just chose to ignore them.

My issue here David is that MM has chosen to appoint a manager who does not portray the requirements that MM has given us the fans in public - academy players, Derby Way etc. So back the manager 100% I agree, but don't appoint someone in the first place who wants to sell one of our very few true assets.

[rammieib]

12 hours ago, rynny said:

So Mel has been in charge for 2 years. The club has made some good decisions, some bad, some bizarre, some downright truly awful and some excellent. How much of this is down to Mel? No idea. People complain about Mel going into the changing rooms after Reading, some people complain that he didn't stop the Martin deal, some are complaining about the Hughes deal, some people complain about the free scarf and hot drink, some are complaining that the kits haven't been released yet, some are complaining about money being spent, some are complaining at the lack of signings. How much of it is down to Morris? How much is down to the teams he inherited? Are we going to see any changes with the recent reshuffle? It is almost an impossible situation for Mel to please all of the fans. We want him to get every decision right, but it isn't that easy. When do fire a manager that isn't performing? Who do you get in to improve the team?

I think last summer highlighted how difficult it is to please the fans with the surveys of who we want as manager, I know Pearson came out on top in quite a few polls, but it was never much more than a third of fans wanting him, that was 2/3s of fans that he wasn't first choice for. I know there was a poll if you was happy or not with Pearson and the majority were but how many are always happy with everything the club does? Some it is a blind allegiance, others will always back the club as it feels wrong to disagree (not calling anyone who does this, I used to back the club at every decision)

Rambling on, what was the thread about? Oh yeah, my opinion on Mel? I think he has made mistakes but has also done very well in other aspects, can not question his commitment with providing funds but if someone can tell me which actions were solely down to Mel, what actions he was advised to do and what actions he vetoed, I am sure I will come up with an better answer. I know some opinions are down to a preconceived idea of what he was going to do, whether that means anything good and it is all down Mel and anything or bad and it is down Rush/manager/coaches/players etc and vice versa. Again never going to call or criticise anyone who believes either, after all we are entitled to our opinions, and are free to voice them.

Out of interest, what have been his good decisions? Clearing of debt aside?

[Angry Ram]

18 hours ago, rynny said:

So Mel has been in charge for 2 years. The club has made some good decisions, some bad, some bizarre, some downright truly awful and some excellent. How much of this is down to Mel? No idea. People complain about Mel going into the changing rooms after Reading, some people complain that he didn't stop the Martin deal, some are complaining about the Hughes deal, some people complain about the free scarf and hot drink, some are complaining that the kits haven't been released yet, some are complaining about money being spent, some are complaining at the lack of signings. How much of it is down to Morris? How much is down to the teams he inherited? Are we going to see any changes with the recent reshuffle? It is almost an impossible situation for Mel to please all of the fans. We want him to get every decision right, but it isn't that easy. When do fire a manager that isn't performing? Who do you get in to improve the team?

I think last summer highlighted how difficult it is to please the fans with the surveys of who we want as manager, I know Pearson came out on top in quite a few polls, but it was never much more than a third of fans wanting him, that was 2/3s of fans that he wasn't first choice for. I know there was a poll if you was happy or not with Pearson and the majority were but how many are always happy with everything the club does? Some it is a blind allegiance, others will always back the club as it feels wrong to disagree (not calling anyone who does this, I used to back the club at every decision)

Rambling on, what was the thread about? Oh yeah, my opinion on Mel? I think he has made mistakes but has also done very well in other aspects, can not question his commitment with providing funds but if someone can tell me which actions were solely down to Mel, what actions he was advised to do and what actions he vetoed, I am sure I will come up with an better answer. I know some opinions are down to a preconceived idea of what he was going to do, whether that means anything good and it is all down Mel and anything or bad and it is down Rush/manager/coaches/players etc and vice versa. Again never going to call or criticise anyone who believes either, after all we are entitled to our opinions, and are free to voice them.

I think your trivialise a bit there, it's not about coffee and a scarf, changing rooms or little things like that. The issue is, for me, he does not know how to achieve what he wants. I don't doubt he wants the best for DCFC but how is he going to achieve that. I would have more respect if he stuck with something. A vision.. Direct football, total football, beautiful football, hoof football. I loved the Clement appointment, it showed me he was thinking outside the box, we were not going back to that same old pool of 6 or 7 journeyman managers who continually fail. Great.. Few months later, something has happened and Clement is a gonner. Okay we hear all the rumours, maybe Clement had to go but what a mess to follow. Big statements 'The Derby Way', Wassell, Pearson, Mac, Harry, Rowett. There is no joining the dots with that lot. This way.. Oops, no that way.. Let's get rid of Rush... 

I have no idea of what he wants and how to achieve it, he has no idea either. Qualifications for the job... I get he's a fan but maybe that is his problem? I have read post after post about him keeping the fans happy and you rightly point out you can't keep everyone happy. We are all DCFC fans on here but we can't agree on what day it is. Is he too close and his normal decision making process is suffering? 

 

[BramcoteRam84]

Mel should be commended for sticking his head above the parapet and taking the club on. He's a local guy and definitely has a genuine love for the club as otherwise he would be mad to have took on what is a thankless task. We should be greatful for that.

However, as owner the buck stops with him. He's accountable for the decisions he makes and has to deal with whatever flak comes his way. His managerial decisions so far have been poor and this is the main reason for the recent instability. Recruitment has also been poor, but you have to back your managers. 

I think Rowett has always been the man Mel has wanted as Manager, he's just been unavailable when we have been recruiting. He has to give Rowett time. If he does, then the problems created by his previous appointments could be corrected and we may just move forward into the premier league and enjoy a period of success. At that point, Mel will be lauded as the great owner, he's one of our own etc, and rightly so.

If he buckles and sacks Rowett during a poor run next season, then he'll continue to make the club laughing stock and we'll go nowhere

[Day]

6 hours ago, rammieib said:

My issue here David is that MM has chosen to appoint a manager who does not portray the requirements that MM has given us the fans in public - academy players, Derby Way etc. So back the manager 100% I agree, but don't appoint someone in the first place who wants to sell one of our very few true assets.

Sounds reasonable to me, just feel that it's easy with hindsight to judge the appointments.

When Wassall was given till the end of the season the calls for Pearson on this forum and social media were very vocal. Not looked for the poll but after his appointment is was a high 80's% approval.

Not saying everyone but he was by far the popular choice and to be fair Leicester used to tear teams apart in the Championship, us included, to say he wasn't capable of playing winning, entertaining and attacking football is not true. 

Clearly interviewed well, made all the right noises and was given the job, the rest is history.

You could argue Mac 2 suffered the same fate as Pearson. The players switched off. Wasn't arsed.

Would he have been a success given more time to clear out? Who knows.

I think the only appointments I've seen any real opposition to were Wassall end of the season and McClaren 2 so is it fair to overly criticise?

Or do they just go down as a that one didn't work out.

[Ninos]

12 minutes ago, Angry Ram said:

I think your trivialise a bit there, it's not about coffee and a scarf, changing rooms or little things like that. The issue is, for me, he does not know how to achieve what he wants. I don't doubt he wants the best for DCFC but how is he going to achieve that. I would have more respect if he stuck with something. A vision.. Direct football, total football, beautiful football, hoof football. I loved the Clement appointment, it showed me he was thinking outside the box, we were not going back to that same old pool of 6 or 7 journeyman managers who continually fail. Great.. Few months later, something has happened and Clement is a gonner. Okay we hear all the rumours, maybe Clement had to go but what a mess to follow. Big statements 'The Derby Way', Wassell, Pearson, Mac, Harry, Rowett. There is no joining the dots with that lot. This way.. Oops, no that way.. Let's get rid of Rush... 

I have no idea of what he wants and how to achieve it, he has no idea either. Qualifications for the job... I get he's a fan but maybe that is his problem? I have read post after post about him keeping the fans happy and you rightly point out you can't keep everyone happy. We are all DCFC fans on here but we can't agree on what day it is. Is he too close and his normal decision making process is suffering? 

 

Wasn't too keen on the coffee thing but hey hey now kimosabe, easy on the scarf, cuz I love mine  

Otherwise bang on, as usual. He does indeed need to stick with one vision, and I kinda liked the original one, at least as articulated.

[Day]

The average tenure for a football manager in England now is 1.23 years 

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11688/9875915/average-tenure-of-managers-in-england-just-1-23-years

The question is, what is the success rate in managerial appointments across the country?

You look at Man Utd, Moyes and Van Gaal, failures? You could argue they are a little rusty in the interviewing process. 

Spurs, Villas-Boas, Sherwood before Pochettino. 

Liverpool, Hodgson, Dalglish before Klopp.

Whilst all these were given around a year before proving to be failures, far longer than Derby have given managers under Mel, the point is they were still flops. 

All 3 of those clubs have their own "way", both Moyes and Van Gaal couldn't be anymore different to Ferguson unless they wore a bra and suspenders. 

Roy Hodgson could send my dog to sleep without walking him, he could turn my TV off without a remote. Was he the Liverpool "way".

[Ninos]

8 minutes ago, David said:

Sounds reasonable to me, just feel that it's easy with hindsight to judge the appointments.

When Wassall was given till the end of the season the calls for Pearson on this forum and social media were very vocal. Not looked for the poll but after his appointment is was a high 80's% approval.

Not saying everyone but he was by far the popular choice and to be fair Leicester used to tear teams apart in the Championship, us included, to say he wasn't capable of playing winning, entertaining and attacking football is not true. 

Clearly interviewed well, made all the right noises and was given the job, the rest is history.

You could argue Mac 2 suffered the same fate as Pearson. The players switched off. Wasn't arsed.

Would he have been a success given more time to clear out? Who knows.

I think the only appointments I've seen any real opposition to were Wassall end of the season and McClaren 2 so is it fair to overly criticise?

Or do they just go down as a that one didn't work out.

The theme of your comments here David is that the correct thing to do is what most fans want him to do. Or at least that's how he should be judged. But it seems that what @Angry Ramand @rammieib are pointing to is his failure to live up to his own articulated convictions of how to progress the club. 

[Day]

1 minute ago, Ninos said:

The theme of your comments here David is that the correct thing to do is what most fans want him to do. Or at least that's how he should be judged. But it seems that what @Angry Ramand @rammieib are pointing to is his failure to live up to his own articulated convictions of how to progress the club. 

No not at all, what I'm questioning is just how critical can we as fans be when he has appointed exactly who the majority wanted.

Personally I would like to see him stay well clear of fan choices, if he sees fans calling for Pearson scratch him straight off the list, we have shown time and time again we get so much wrong.

You look back at the Summer of 2015, not many were critical of the signings, only now with hindsight.

Clement, Pearson, McClaren 2 were bad appointments for various reasons. His hit rate is currently 0%. Post I made a few minutes ago shows that even the big clubs make a couple of wrong appointments before landing on the right one. 

[TommyPowell]

so Mel will be at fault for giving Rowett the money to buy? what a ludicrous arguement

[LazloW]

I'm not sure you can equate selling Will or appointing Rowett with failing to live up to what Mel has said he wants to acheive or how he wants to acheive it.  One of the points of bringing Academy players through will be to create saleable assets to allow the club to become more self sufficient. Notwithstanding the fact that I am absolutely convinced that Will expressed a desire to move on (and I'm sure this will come out in the next few days) we have now sold two players for upwards of £15m from the academy in two years.  This shows the value of the academy, though neither of those players had anything to do with Mel's regime, obviously.  This is the way Southampton do it and it seems to work for them.  People are assuming that we won't be bringing more players through the academy. Why? We haven't kicked a ball yet. 

Why are people assuming Rowett is going to play kick and rush football? Because he has bought two solid defenders? Does that mean you can't play football? Wait and see, but even if it is more attritional people won't care if we are winning (in the short term).  Honestly, so much 2+2 = 5 going on it is unbelievable.  If it is crap, he'll be sacked... nowt unusual there.

We don't really know what goes on in the background, so the decisions Mel has made over managers seem weird and somewhat haphazard. However, if we had the full story on these many might agree with the decisions, but either way I think we are sometimes in a time warp at this club.  Hiring and firing managers on a regular basis is now part of the game... I don't like it, but it isn't as unusual or 'laughing stock-ish' as many think.  

I've probably got rose coloured specs on, - and I certainly haven't agreed with all the decisions Mel has made and I'm not happy we've sold Will (though at least I accept that football clubs sometimes sell footballers!) - but I still haven't seen anything which leads me to conclude Mel isn't good for this club. 

[angieram]

I think the debate about Mel's mistakes in both the appointment of managers and the 'Derby Wayl' are easier to have in retrospect.

However, at the time, most appointments seemed to potentially be the right ones and we all agreed that we wanted to see good attacking football.

Unfortunately we also want to get out of the Championship and maybe just some of our appointments, some of our players and quite a lot of our football would have been more suited if we were already in the Premiership. 

I was at the Fans Forum at the end of last season and I feel that there has been a conscious move of philosophy away from the ideals previously stated to a more pragmatic approach. This has been done because the other way wasn't working. I think Rowett's appointment is part of this move, as is Will's departure. 

Now Mel Morris was fairly open about this and warned us to brace ourselves for change. It's interesting then how some are using the change (which many fans called for) as a stick to beat him with even before we have given this revised approach a try.

I don't necessarily think that this approach will produce awful football.  What I am hoping is that it will be more effective, especially that we can vary our tactics a bit more against lower placed teams. If that sometimes means a little less flair, then I am prepared to put up with that if the game warrants it. I'm thinking here of some of our away performances last season, where frankly, we were missing in action! I experienced too many long drives home feeling abject about our performance  to want to repeat that again this season, so for me the change is justified.

I know for some fans that this way will not be acceptable and that there should be no compromise in the way we play the beautiful game. Maybe those fans should pop off and watch Spurs for a season while the rest of us grit our teeth and get on with it. 

I don't think this necessarily means that the club has abandoned its longer term vision but we will only find this out if we at least make it to the Prem in the first place.

So, to answer the original question, I think Morris has made mistakes and owned them. I am prepared to support him as he tries to put them right.

Do I know if he can? Not yet but I will soon!

[TommyPowell]

Here are the facts re money spent while Mel has owned the clun

2015/2016(Clements)                            £28.44 million outgoings

2016.2017(pearson/Mclaren)                 £14.6 million outgoings

                                            Total            £ 43.04 million

transfers out      2015/2017                    £11.3 million(Hendricks and Grant)

IMO viewing these figures just highlights just how much Mel has thrown into the transer kitty although you may not agree with some of the signings you cant fault the effort

Also its easy to see why GR has probably been tasked to raise so cash Which leads us to Will Hughes saleeven I have been surprised by the apparent           lack of interest showed in him.Hence  the comparative low fee

Finally o in a forum like this there is often debate comparing present players and those of the past( for those who saw him how would you rate Hughs against the likes of Alan Durban-Archie Gemmill- Willy Carlin)?

How about comparing Mel Morris with our past owners./chairmen?

 

                                      

[Day]

I see Angieram has touched on the Derby way, saw this as an opportunity to expand and hopefully make a little more sense in where I am coming from with a proper keyboard in front of me. Be warned I'm on my MacBook which means this will be a long post, probably worth scrolling to the next post!

I remember meeting Mel, hearing his visions for the club and I walked away with a great big smile on my face, couldn't be happier, sounded perfect. 

A Derby way of playing football where you could change the head coach with minimal disruption to the squad and style of football the club aimed to deliver.

You know what they say, if it sounded too good to be true, it usually is.

I'll be honest, I don't think I could pass an exam in what the Derby Way is, I feel like I know parts and have been just as confused by some unexplained going ons.

Why have we shifted from the head coach to manager? How can it be a minimal disruption when you have one manager shipping out a focal point of the side and replacing him with a player that is the complete opposite?

I truly believe each manager is appointed believing they are the one and given absolute 100% backing to do what they feel is needed to bring us promotion whilst following the guidelines that are set, the club are possibly more open to the fact there is more ways to skin a cat where as us fans are guilty in that believing The Derby Way is 13/14 4-3-3. 

Look at the way we have reacted to Martin and Hughes leaving, then Wisdom and Thorne coming back. I'am just as guilty when you throw in Mac 2, all we needed was a Bamford loan and somehow convince Burnley to send Hendrick back and we were laughing.

Clement, Pearson, Rowett will all believe they can bring attacking, entertaining, winning football, they will all have their own ideas how to bring that. I don't believe each appointment was as crazy as some think, I can bring up polls on each and the thumbs up ratings were high for every single one.

As fans we are critical using hindsight, very rarely do you see us admit we were wrong, luckily it's not us being judged. Mel and Sam at the time don't have hindsight, they have to appoint on what they feel is right at the time, who interviewed the best. 

I believe that the Derby Way is still very much in place, the only difference now being that the managers are fully responsible for setting up their own scouting team and identifying targets, not which box do you want A or B. 

You live and die by your decisions, Nigel Pearson will testify to this.

That may come at the cost of not being able to easily transition from one manager to another, early days, remains to be seen.

I can only put the shift down to the club finding it more difficult than they expected to have a head coach and transfer team all on the same wavelength, even some of the big clubs with similar philosophies still allow the manager to take full control of signings. 

Man Utd, Spurs, Liverpool all three as I pointed out earlier in another post have had failed appointments before they have landed on their current managers, even Mourino today doesn't exactly fit the Man Utd blueprint that Alex Ferguson set out, a club that has brought through so many talented players is now managed by a manager that prefers to buy than develop younger players. 

When Mel spoke of the pathway from the academy to the first team being part of the plan, I think some expected that to happen straight away and the summer of 2015 was a complete contradiction, this pathway will be a long term goal, build the facilities for younger players to thrive in and show that when they are ready there is hope of reaching the first team. You can't just drag players through and chuck them in the trenches.

The U21's only just narrowly avoided relegation last season, maybe none are ready yet? When fans call to play the kids because the "season is over" is a terrible keyboard smashing idea, I'm sure you wouldn't just chuck your kid in the deep end of a swimming pool, the step up from the U21's to first team is huge, how many excelled in the checkatrade or whatever name it is trophy? Already this week Elsnik and Guy are being mentioned as replacements for Hughes in the first team, how much have we seen to be suggesting those 2 already? Fans love to see talent come through the ranks, I get it, I do as well but for that I have to put my full faith in the manager to get the timing right.

We may not see the effects from these facilities for another 5 years or so. As a Derby manager when that player arrives you must be willing to show you are prepared to give them a chance. One criticism of Clement was that he showed little interest in football outside of the Premier League, there was no going to watch other games, soaking up as much as you can. 

McClaren on the other hand when reappointed was a little late arriving to the supporters meeting as he had just been to watch the U21's I believe. It's these things as fans we are not aware of that are the straws which bare the weight on the camels back, the league table being the final straw. 

If we are not aware of things how do you know that? Anyone that has attended a fans forum or spoken to Mel will agree he is fairly open with fans, don't expect him to tell you how much Richard Keogh is earning a week or who we're signing next but appointments and sackings are backed up with reasoning even if you still don't agree.

It's still not enough for some fans though, they want full disclosure, Mel just looks after OUR club, we have a right to know, I'm sorry but if that's your mentality you will never be happy. No club fans are ever given full disclosure, ever.  We never received it under GSE nor will we now. 

The difference between the two in terms of communication is night and day, you even have fans going to help create the clubs website, when has that ever happened? 

There are fans that won't believe a word he says, everything is a lie, sack him, hand the free scarf back and whilst I am open minded enough to realise there will always be 2 sides of a story, I think it's foolish just to take the he's talking ******** stance on every single word.

I have seen comments on this forum fuelled by the sale of Will Hughes, from we're skint, FFP, Rowett's hand is been forced on this and even Mel's this and that for not blocking the transfer, which is interesting because one accusation is that he meddles too much with the team.

Enter mistake number 2. Dressing roomgate. The first being Paul Clement could be our Alex Ferguson. Don't, just don't.

Has the possibility not ever crossed minds that Rowett may simply not rate Hughes or see a place for him in the team? As crazy as that may sound he has found himself on the bench under Pearson and Rowett now. I'm a big Hughes fan, the first player to leave that genuinely upset me slightly (man up!) but using it as an excuse to bash Mel is very scapegoat like and not surprising. 

We've gone around 6 weeks with barely anything to talk about and this topic pops up when Hughes is being sold. The dislike for Mel will always bubble under the surface until promotion is achieved. He knows this, well aware.

Don't get me wrong I understand the frustration of seeing your favourite players leave but just fail to see why it's resulted in topics like this and not questioning does Rowett know what he's doing. 

Maybe Rowett does know what he's doing, I hope he does, talking privately with other members we all pretty much agreed this will be a big summer and we need to be prepared for some exits and possibly non wowing signings. Baird, Eustace, not the kind of players to sell shirts but they do a job, I expect it's those kind of players Rowett want's to bring into the team, not your well paid I'll turn up when I likes.

Not that I'm accusing Will of being one of those players, there is a number of reasons why he may now be a Watford player before we land on it's all Mel's fault.

Interesting times ahead that's for sure, Rowett isn't making it easy for himself, selling the academy golden boy and now on Rams TV talking of the first month being a good indicator. 

Rowett was a popular choice once again, his first home game v QPR I believe never heard the ground sing as loudly for a new manager as they did that night. Hopefully we can revisit this topic in 12 months time with Gary Rowett still in charge looking forward to the Premier League and Mel's appointment hit rate no longer at 0%. We're due a good one.

[Angry Ram]

2 hours ago, David said:

No not at all, what I'm questioning is just how critical can we as fans be when he has appointed exactly who the majority wanted.

Personally I would like to see him stay well clear of fan choices, if he sees fans calling for Pearson scratch him straight off the list, we have shown time and time again we get so much wrong.

You look back at the Summer of 2015, not many were critical of the signings, only now with hindsight.

Clement, Pearson, McClaren 2 were bad appointments for various reasons. His hit rate is currently 0%. Post I made a few minutes ago shows that even the big clubs make a couple of wrong appointments before landing on the right one. 

So are you saying he is just doing what the fans want all the time? I would be more critical of that.. He started with a good plan, then HE put square pegs in round holes and it went wobbly. Everyone makes mistakes but keep the basic ethos ala Southampton and Swansea should stay the same. Most would be fairly happy with a building process that has a goal and everyone can see what is trying to be achieved. We get a vision for two months then need our eyes testing as the vision has gone and we are doing something else.

If we want to play like Swansea.. Fine.. If we want to play like Wimbledon did.. Not so fine (personally) but I could get on board if we were clear on that.. Not Southampton one week and Wimbledon the next. The managers are in effect set up to fail. 

What due diligence have the club done on these appointments? I have a fear it was not very much.

Are we better with a fan as a leader of an investment group like we had, who can detract themselves from the fan? Lets face it us fans are not the most steady of factors when it comes to our club. The is no real answer to that as there will be examples of both working and both failing. Gibson for example is a success.. Some investment groups can be a massive fail. Morris at the moment is a fail with a capital F.

[Alph]

On selling Hughes.

I'm furious with it. If he wanted to leave then fair enough. He's been ready to play with better players for a while.

But if not... Why sell him at the end of the worst season of his career? Like you said, he's our academy golden boy. If you want money for him then there's a time to sell and it's not now. His value has surely not been as low as it is now at any point since his first season. 

It's similar to the Chris Martin loan. We had a striker that scored 20, 20, and 15 was it? Now let's say you want to cash in. Most clubs here seem to stand their ground. "We want £20m". Like Fulham with Cairney. A stupid demand that everyone laughs at. But the point is that you try to milk the interest right up until the point that the bidders are prepared to move on.

What you don't do is loan him out with any sort of agreement. What if he scored 0 in 46. Then you get back a player worth less and a year older than the one you originally had. What if he scored 20? Then that's 75 goals in 4 seasons and you're allowing that, on loan to a opponent in your league, to go for what? £9m? Nine million? Wow

So back to Hughes. We've sold him in June. We haven't really tried to sell him. There's been no big public "Rams want  £15m for the player Barcelona had a dossier on". You know? Milk it. Watford have made an offer!! Shout it from the rooftops. 

If the time to cash in on one of our best academy stars is now (at the end of a poor season ) then so be it. But make some actual cash. 

I don't know about you guys but I've got mates who support other clubs texting me taking the piss. They thought it hilarious that we had one of the brightest, best and youngest players in the league and we sold him for such a fee in June at seemingly the first opportunity. 

Meanwhile look at the fees paid for Vydra and Anya. Vydra wasn't coming in from a successful spell. He has had 2 (?) Clubs since that Watford season everyone bangs on about. And Shackell, look how Burnley got a good price for him!

And the "well, if he's not in Rowetts plans..." 

I don't like the sound of a plan that apparently involves Butterfield, Johnson, Bryson and possibly Glenn Whelan that Will Hughes isn't good enough for. It sounds like a **** plan. 

**** off Derby. Sheep shagging cnuts

[Duracell]

6 minutes ago, Alpha said:

On selling Hughes.

I'm furious with it. If he wanted to leave then fair enough. He's been ready to play with better players for a while.

To be honest, given the timing and fee, I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to rule this out.

Especially with Hughes talking about it being "the right time to move on" after a "difficult decision."

[G STAR RAM]

I wonder how many of the people criticizing the Rowett appointment because he doesn't encourage the right type of football are the same ones that were booing Wassall out of a shot at the job?

[Day]

Just now, Angry Ram said:

So are you saying he is just doing what the fans want all the time? I would be more critical of that.. He started with a good plan, then HE put square pegs in round holes and it went wobbly. Everyone makes mistakes but keep the basic ethos ala Southampton and Swansea should stay the same. Most would be fairly happy with a building process that has a goal and everyone can see what is trying to be achieved. We get a vision for two months then need our eyes testing as the vision has gone and we are doing something else.

If we want to play like Swansea.. Fine.. If we want to play like Wimbledon did.. Not so fine (personally) but I could get on board if we were clear on that.. Not Southampton one week and Wimbledon the next. The managers are in effect set up to fail. 

What due diligence have the club done on these appointments? I have a fear it was not very much.

Are we better with a fan as a leader of an investment group like we had, who can detract themselves from the fan? Lets face it us fans are not the most steady of factors when it comes to our club. The is no real answer to that as there will be examples of both working and both failing. Gibson for example is a success.. Some investment groups can be a massive fail. Morris at the moment is a fail with a capital F.

I'm not saying he is doing what the fans want but the fans have agreed at the time with how he has appointed. If I thought he was appointing based on fans demands I would be just as critical. 

It's interesting when managers get sacked which has been a regular occurrence at Derby you never see many suggestions for replacements that haven't been rumoured in the media, we just jump from hype train to hype train then criticise after when it fails.  

You expect the club to have better resources and knowledge to find managers than fans that fit the mould but I don't think it's that easy as some expect, you will have blips and even then the blueprint may not be followed to a tee. Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal to Mourinho. Hodgson, Dalglish to Klopp and this is at big big clubs with the power to attract pretty much who they like. These two have their ways ingrained into the club for years and should be in no doubt what is expected from them. 

We are 3 seasons into this Derby Way.

I don't think our appointments have been that crazily different as others seem to do, you use Swansea as an example but how do you explain Bob Bradley? Hardly the king of possession based games, Clement seems the perfect fit on paper now for what is billed as the Swansea way.

Just like when Martin was injured fans wanted a carbon copy replacement, not always easy.  Would you want a carbon copy of a man you have just sacked or try something different?