Gritstone Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 hour ago, TommyPowel said: Here are the facts re money spent while Mel has owned the clun 2015/2016(Clements) £28.44 million outgoings 2016.2017(pearson/Mclaren) £14.6 million outgoings Total £ 43.04 million transfers out 2015/2017 £11.3 million(Hendricks and Grant) IMO viewing these figures just highlights just how much Mel has thrown into the transer kitty although you may not agree with some of the signings you cant fault the effort Also its easy to see why GR has probably been tasked to raise so cash Which leads us to Will Hughes saleeven I have been surprised by the apparent lack of interest showed in him.Hence the comparative low fee Finally o in a forum like this there is often debate comparing present players and those of the past( for those who saw him how would you rate Hughs against the likes of Alan Durban-Archie Gemmill- Willy Carlin)? How about comparing Mel Morris with our past owners./chairmen? Not all the facts. Martin had a loan fee didn't he? I suspect there were a few other smaller fees for Buxton and nay be some others that I can't just think off the top of my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alph Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Duracell said: To be honest, given the timing and fee, I'm not sure why everyone is so quick to rule this out. Especially with Hughes talking about it being "the right time to move on" after a "difficult decision." Even so Duracell, I still think that's a card Derby don't show. They drum up interest, shout "We're not selling for less than £20m". Drag it into deep waters. The way to invite interest in football seems to be to publicly announce your desire to keep someone. Want CV's flying through the door? Announce that you're definitely not sacking your manager. Nobody asked but you announce it anyway. Want to sell a player. Sell him. But shout it out that you want to keep the best player in the league. The Barcelona bound kid. Tell the world Watford bid £8m but you want 15. Drag it out. Hughes will eventually get his move. I dunno. I'm in too much of a tantrum to be reasonable. No, he hadn't had a great season. His worst probably. But there's a player here that gets an extra 10% out of everyone else. He's a magic spell on everyone else. If everyone is ****, which they pretty much have been quite a lot then he won't pull them out the fire like Tom Ince. He just makes them slightly less ****. If the ball sails over his head then he can do nothing. But if the team plays as a team. There's understanding and cohesion. Then Hughes can slot straight in and Xavi it. The go to guy. Sure he's a specific target. But in the right team he's better than Huddlestone and Livermore have been. He's better than Glenn Whelan. He's better than half those PL cling ons. He was our pot of gold. I'm surprised we didn't pay Watford to take him. After the ***** we've bought and the fees we've paid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Here it is. Only 4 members from 288 were unhappy at the time. I wish I could find a poll from when Wassall was around but Pearson was also the overwhelming choice I remember. Sadly I can't find polls for Clement or Rowett at the time, only this which was from all the rumoured managers. My point I'm really failing to get out is yes judge Mel on appointments, that can be done with hindsight that is how you will judge tenure and how he supports his managers. Just remember when you're judging, at the time the majority were happy with the appointment so be as critical against your own opinions as well, everyone who wanted Pearson hang your heads in shame the lot of you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 25 minutes ago, David said: I'm not saying he is doing what the fans want but the fans have agreed at the time with how he has appointed. If I thought he was appointing based on fans demands I would be just as critical. It's interesting when managers get sacked which has been a regular occurrence at Derby you never see many suggestions for replacements that haven't been rumoured in the media, we just jump from hype train to hype train then criticise after when it fails. You expect the club to have better resources and knowledge to find managers than fans that fit the mould but I don't think it's that easy as some expect, you will have blips and even then the blueprint may not be followed to a tee. Ferguson, Moyes, Van Gaal to Mourinho. Hodgson, Dalglish to Klopp and this is at big big clubs with the power to attract pretty much who they like. These two have their ways ingrained into the club for years and should be in no doubt what is expected from them. We are 3 seasons into this Derby Way. I don't think our appointments have been that crazily different as others seem to do, you use Swansea as an example but how do you explain Bob Bradley? Hardly the king of possession based games, Clement seems the perfect fit on paper now for what is billed as the Swansea way. Just like when Martin was injured fans wanted a carbon copy replacement, not always easy. Would you want a carbon copy of a man you have just sacked or try something different? To be fair Bradley was strange and they deviated from the model.. Low and behold, it did not work. Picking a manager is a lottery, have said it many times.. But at least you know their previous and preferred style. I beg to differ with you on The Derby Way, he has lost his way there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Just listened to Rowett's interview on Hughes. https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2017/06/rowett-discusses-hughes-departure Worth a watch, discusses not only Hughes but balancing the squad, FFP and the pathway for academy players. But this thread isn't about Hughes? The timing tells me it was triggered by his departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: I beg to differ with you Thats football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 12 minutes ago, David said: Here it is. Only 4 members from 288 were unhappy at the time. I wish I could find a poll from when Wassall was around but Pearson was also the overwhelming choice I remember. Sadly I can't find polls for Clement or Rowett at the time, only this which was from all the rumoured managers. My point I'm really failing to get out is yes judge Mel on appointments, that can be done with hindsight that is how you will judge tenure and how he supports his managers. Just remember when you're judging, at the time the majority were happy with the appointment so be as critical against your own opinions as well, everyone who wanted Pearson hang your heads in shame the lot of you! Not sure if I voted in either of those.. I go back to my original point, are we better off with a fan at the helm? You have proved fans know nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Not sure if I voted in either of those.. I go back to my original point, are we better off with a fan at the helm? You have proved fans know nothing. I think that's a difficult question, what is the other alternatives to choose from? We can review his time here, the best time for that would be when he leaves but theres no way we will keep quiet until then, do I think we are better off under Mel than our previous owners? yes. Whilst stability may have gone out the window, it's a trade I'm happy with as each summer I know there is a genuine desire and ambition to see this club in the Premier League. Under GSE they had one roll of the dice under Jewell then brought Clough in and seemed to be content treading water. Attendances proved they were the only ones. No denying Mel will be given more time and affection as he's local, that's only natural. If you was to design your own club it would be a local owner, local players through the academy with a manager that has a connection to the club. We love the romance us football fans. But is the grass greener on the other side? No idea and I've not seen anything to make me wish to peek over the fence that could be a SISU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritstone Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 From what I can make out the concept of changing managers and not having to do too much changing to the squad has back fired big time. It is quite clear that there is a miss mash of players that may be skillful individuals but don't fit in as a team. This has to be a result of changing managers 5 times in 4 years. None have been in long enough to develop a squad. It is now getting to the point that Rowett should be gone if we lose one of our first 4 games. What do we get then?? Another half built squad and a different manager with a different idea. I think the KPI's are a good marker to judge progress but in some cases there may be mitigating factors that have made progress slow. Looking back at the managers and sackings I have thought all deserved a chance. All deserved to go in the end. I don't think you can cater for 3 bad appointments in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Alpha said: On selling Hughes. I'm furious with it. If he wanted to leave then fair enough. He's been ready to play with better players for a while. But if not... Why sell him at the end of the worst season of his career? Like you said, he's our academy golden boy. If you want money for him then there's a time to sell and it's not now. His value has surely not been as low as it is now at any point since his first season. It's similar to the Chris Martin loan. We had a striker that scored 20, 20, and 15 was it? Now let's say you want to cash in. Most clubs here seem to stand their ground. "We want £20m". Like Fulham with Cairney. A stupid demand that everyone laughs at. But the point is that you try to milk the interest right up until the point that the bidders are prepared to move on. What you don't do is loan him out with any sort of agreement. What if he scored 0 in 46. Then you get back a player worth less and a year older than the one you originally had. What if he scored 20? Then that's 75 goals in 4 seasons and you're allowing that, on loan to a opponent in your league, to go for what? £9m? Nine million? Wow So back to Hughes. We've sold him in June. We haven't really tried to sell him. There's been no big public "Rams want £15m for the player Barcelona had a dossier on". You know? Milk it. Watford have made an offer!! Shout it from the rooftops. If the time to cash in on one of our best academy stars is now (at the end of a poor season ) then so be it. But make some actual cash. I don't know about you guys but I've got mates who support other clubs texting me taking the piss. They thought it hilarious that we had one of the brightest, best and youngest players in the league and we sold him for such a fee in June at seemingly the first opportunity. Meanwhile look at the fees paid for Vydra and Anya. Vydra wasn't coming in from a successful spell. He has had 2 (?) Clubs since that Watford season everyone bangs on about. And Shackell, look how Burnley got a good price for him! And the "well, if he's not in Rowetts plans..." I don't like the sound of a plan that apparently involves Butterfield, Johnson, Bryson and possibly Glenn Whelan that Will Hughes isn't good enough for. It sounds like a **** plan. **** off Derby. Sheep shagging cnuts Careful you are starting to sound like me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 5 hours ago, David said: I think that's a difficult question, what is the other alternatives to choose from? We can review his time here, the best time for that would be when he leaves but theres no way we will keep quiet until then, do I think we are better off under Mel than our previous owners? yes. Whilst stability may have gone out the window, it's a trade I'm happy with as each summer I know there is a genuine desire and ambition to see this club in the Premier League. Under GSE they had one roll of the dice under Jewell then brought Clough in and seemed to be content treading water. Attendances proved they were the only ones. No denying Mel will be given more time and affection as he's local, that's only natural. If you was to design your own club it would be a local owner, local players through the academy with a manager that has a connection to the club. We love the romance us football fans. But is the grass greener on the other side? No idea and I've not seen anything to make me wish to peek over the fence that could be a SISU. Everything is a lottery in football but with Morris we are not even buying a ticket to be in it. If I was to design a club I would want the best manager, the best players.. I don't give a poo where they are from. Not very romantic me.. No room for that crap. GSE also brought in Mac1 by the way... So gave a local boy a chance and when they reasilsed it was not working, did something else but tried to develop what Clough had started. Good management in my books. Enhance, build on the start of something good. Along comes computer boy and we lose the momentum we had. I'm sorry but we are The Muppet Show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G STAR RAM Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Everything is a lottery in football but with Morris we are not even buying a ticket to be in it. If I was to design a club I would want the best manager, the best players.. I don't give a poo where they are from. Not very romantic me.. No room for that crap. GSE also brought in Mac1 by the way... So gave a local boy a chance and when they reasilsed it was not working, did something else but tried to develop what Clough had started. Good management in my books. Enhance, build on the start of something good. Along comes computer boy and we lose the momentum we had. I'm sorry but we are The Muppet Show. Devils advocate, since he came in, one season we finished higher than before he took over, the second season one or two places lower...it's hardly the complete disaster some are making out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Everything is a lottery in football but with Morris we are not even buying a ticket to be in it. If I was to design a club I would want the best manager, the best players.. I don't give a poo where they are from. Not very romantic me.. No room for that crap. GSE also brought in Mac1 by the way... So gave a local boy a chance and when they reasilsed it was not working, did something else but tried to develop what Clough had started. Good management in my books. Enhance, build on the start of something good. Along comes computer boy and we lose the momentum we had. I'm sorry but we are The Muppet Show. Not buying it, I bet your favourite day of the year is Valentines Day, black suit, rose in your mouth and box of chocolates. This angry emotionless man routine doesn't fool me, I've got you sussed out, Southern softie Sam Rush was the brainchild behind Mac wasn't he? GSE had already started their retreat back to America. Technically they were the owners at the time though yes. Find it difficult to have many fond memories over the GSE tenture, the austerity was partly down to their faith in Jewell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said: Devils advocate, since he came in, one season we finished higher than before he took over, the second season one or two places lower...it's hardly the complete disaster some are making out. Agreed if he had stuck with Clement we might be at Anfield in early August.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Kevin Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Listening to that interview ,for a man who originally wants to go up this year he sounds like he's let Will have a crack at the prem because he thinks we won't make it . For a man who has previously interviewed well ,sounds like it's getting to him a bit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, David said: Not buying it, I bet your favourite day of the year is Valentines Day, black suit, rose in your mouth and box of chocolates. This angry emotionless man routine doesn't fool me, I've got you sussed out, Southern softie Sam Rush was the brainchild behind Mac wasn't he? GSE had already started their retreat back to America. Technically they were the owners at the time though yes. Find it difficult to have many fond memories over the GSE tenture, the austerity was partly down to their faith in Jewell. Back off I'm singing Barry Gibb songs to the wife... Legends set at Glastonbury , like a poxy political rally otherwise.. You don't what's it's like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Angry Ram said: Agreed if he had stuck with Clement we might be at Anfield in early August.. It was his signings that started to balls up 'The Derby Way'. Had he stayed I could see him accidentally doing a Pearson rather than intentionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 22 minutes ago, King Kevin said: For a man who has previously interviewed well ,sounds like it's getting to him a bit . Looked like he'd aged ten years as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angry Ram Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Just now, cannable said: It was his signings that started to balls up 'The Derby Way'. Had he stayed I could see him accidentally doing a Pearson rather than intentionally. We still don't know for sure they were his.. Some were signed before he started weren't they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Angry Ram said: We still don't know for sure they were his.. Some were signed before he started weren't they. Some were McClaren's that Clement allowed to go through. I'd argue that letting Ward go for free and replacing him with £2m+ Weimann is on par with the Martin loan fiasco and the ****-show currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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