The Scarlet Pimpernel Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: @Jourdan - I get what you're saying. But who's saying that Keogh is better than Flint or Hanley? What has Keogh done in the past 2/3 seasons that puts him in the bracket above them 2? They've played in the same league for the past 2 years. Hanley was specifically identified by Newcastle to be apart of their promotion winning team to take them back to the premier league. Why would they buy a player, one that you're saying isn't better than a player who has finished top 10, to get them into the premier league? If he's not as good as Keogh then Newcastle wouldn't have wanted him. Flint I can understand as he is playing for a smaller club. But he has the potential to be a very good defender in this league. He's a footballer they are hoofers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Sorry to jump in here, thought I would try some of that common sense 10 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: @Jourdan - I get what you're saying. But who's saying that Keogh is better than Flint or Hanley? What has Keogh done in the past 2/3 seasons that puts him in the bracket above them 2? They've played in the same league for the past 2 years. What have Hanley and Flint done to show they are better than Keogh, when signing players you want an improvement on what you have right, so what exactly have these two done? 10 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: Hanley was specifically identified by Newcastle to be apart of their promotion winning team to take them back to the premier league. Why would they buy a player, one that you're saying isn't better than a player who has finished top 10, to get them into the premier league? Yet started just 5 games and willing to sell 12 months later, could that not be a sign of getting it wrong? 10 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: If he's not as good as Keogh then Newcastle wouldn't have wanted him. See above. Every single club makes signings that flop. Sir Alex Ferguson, Bebe. I'm not against signing either and selling Keogh, my reason to see Keogh leave is not on ability but feeling that he needs a fresh start where fans would appreciate him. Sick of hearing blamed for every goal, wouldn't surprise me if he is to but your post is easily torn apart here. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouRams Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 http://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/a-full-list-of-premier-league-players-released-by-their-clubs/story-30385687-detail/story.html Some good free agents in the list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, David said: Sorry to jump in here, thought I would try some of that common sense What have Hanley and Flint done to show they are better than Keogh, when signing players you want an improvement on what you have right, so what exactly have these two done? Yet started just 5 games and willing to sell 12 months later, could that not be a sign of getting it wrong? See above. Every single club makes signings that flop. Sir Alex Ferguson, Bebe. I'm not against signing either and selling Keogh, my reason to see Keogh leave is not on ability but feeling that he needs a fresh start where fans would appreciate him. Sick of hearing blamed for every goal, wouldn't surprise me if he is to but your post is easily torn apart here. Sorry. But I have said previously that I think Keogh needs a fresh start and you said that he's the last person in this squad that needs a fresh start. I would argue that Flint & Hanley are both younger which can give them higher potential to Keogh. Keogh has done well here but like you say, Fans don't love him like a club captain should. He gets blamed for a lot of stuff and he has suffered for this. Wouldn't be surprised for him to be off this summer and I wouldn't be fussed if it was to a promotion rival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: But I have said previously that I think Keogh needs a fresh start and you said that he's the last person in this squad that needs a fresh start. Where did I say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 34 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: @Jourdan - I get what you're saying. But who's saying that Keogh is better than Flint or Hanley? What has Keogh done in the past 2/3 seasons that puts him in the bracket above them 2? They've played in the same league for the past 2 years. Hanley was specifically identified by Newcastle to be apart of their promotion winning team to take them back to the premier league. Why would they buy a player, one that you're saying isn't better than a player who has finished top 10, to get them into the premier league? If he's not as good as Keogh then Newcastle wouldn't have wanted him. Flint I can understand as he is playing for a smaller club. But he has the potential to be a very good defender in this league. Flint is not some young buck. He is 27 and will be 28 in July. He has just two years' experience of Championship football and in that time Bristol City have finished 18th and 17th respectively, conceding 71 and 66 goals respectively. Keogh will be 31 in August. At the same age as Flint, Keogh already had three years of Championship football under his belt and when he signed for us, he cost 1/5 of the price you want to pay for Flint. Keogh is our captain, our best and most consistent defender and we haven't finished outside the top 10 in the entirety of his Derby County career. He has also been part of a defence that has conceded an average of 53 goals a season. He is a Republic of Ireland international and played at a major tournament 12 months ago. I'll hold my hands up - I thought replacing Shackell with Keogh in 2012 was laughable but replacing Keogh with Flint at that price would be lunacy. Of course, Flint may improve too. But why take the gamble at such a price when we already have a player who is proven to be a top Championship defender, still has a lot to offer, and hasn't seemingly even asked for a move away? As for Hanley, he is five years younger than Keogh so it would be a more understandable investment. But the fact that Newcastle got promoted and are now ready and willing to dispense of him and the fact that he didn't feature regularly for them in the Championship should tell you everything you need to know. His best years have been playing in two struggling and unfashionable sides - Blackburn and Scotland - who have leaked goals for fun, been on a downward spiral, and not achieved anything of note. Newcastle were hoovering up players in a very whimsical way last summer, so their decision making should have no bearing on what we do this summer. Keogh out, Flint or Hanley in would be a significant downgrade. Such business would shatter Rowett's approval rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papahet Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Out: Bent, Russell, Bryson, Keogh, Blackman, Butterfield, Roos, Olsson... In: Davies, Wisdom, Irvine, Roberts, Ibe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarRam Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Why do we think it is like FIFA 17? Players only have the value that other clubs are willing to spend and trying to sell half your squad is ridiculous. We need to add a couple of the right players and wait for offers for others that don't fit in to the plans. The squad is currently in the top 7 or 8 in the division and we just need to make sure we get the right players which add something to the squad. Patience is the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 38 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: But I have said previously that I think Keogh needs a fresh start and you said that he's the last person in this squad that needs a fresh start. I would argue that Flint & Hanley are both younger which can give them higher potential to Keogh. Keogh has done well here but like you say, Fans don't love him like a club captain should. He gets blamed for a lot of stuff and he has suffered for this. Wouldn't be surprised for him to be off this summer and I wouldn't be fussed if it was to a promotion rival. I don't really understand how you can compare - Keogh is one of the best CBs in the league - Flint was part of a dreadful defence last year and Hanley part of a dreadful defence the year before One of the things we know is likely under Rowett is a high, pressing style of football - It's what he did with Birmingham and it's what he seemed to be trying to instill at the end of the season - Whether it's more 'basic' or more 'open' on the attack he will definitely be defending that way - Evidenced by the number of times he's said pre-season training is going to be hard work, and that he wants the squad to be fitter In that system - Why would you sell a quick, mobile, ball playing defender and replace with two big, slow, units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Outs: Christie Pearce Shackell Olsson - might be tempted to hold onto till forsyth is completely up to speed Johnson Camara Blackmen Weimann Anya - maybe keep due to versatility Bent Any of the youth players who Rowett feels isn't going to make the grade (I.e. the likes of Bennett, Hanson and Rawson who either need to step up to being capable squad players or be moved on) Vydra - This is entirely dependant on whether it will work with him playing off Martin/Nugent as a #10 in a 4231. I could see it going either way. Ins: RB- Somebody who is essentially a young baird i.e. somebody who is defensively reliable, good in possession but is mobile enough to get up and down the flank as required 2xCB - I'd look to bring in two young centre backs who are athletic and capable with the ball at there feet to cover keogh and davies. These could be players such as Rawson or Cover being 'promoted' as well. CDM - Cover for Thorne. Somebody who can shield the back 4, reliable on the ball and can calmly recycle possession. CAM - Somebody is really energetic and dynamic. Capable of running with or without the ball but still reasonable in possession. Preferably physically robust. 2x LW - one would prefebly be something of a wide playmaker, someone really tidy in possesion and helps link play out wide (Boyd would be ideal for this). The other would be someone extremely dynamic, I'd look for someone is quick and is a really good dribbler (think Jordan ibe). ST- I'd look to bring in a young athletic striker who has good potential to provide cover/competition for Martin and Nugent. This could be an academy player such as Zanzala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamsPolls Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 I'm not going to bother replying to people who don't respect others opinions. Just because some of you think Keogh is the best CB in the league, it doesn't mean others have to agree with you. It's like arguing with a brick wall. I respect other opinions but people never seem to respect mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy Ram Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Why did we trigger contract extensions for Bent and Baird? There is a lot of dead wood in this team. Will probably require 3-4 windows to clear this mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: Why did we trigger contract extensions for Bent and Baird? There is a lot of dead wood in this team. Will probably require 3-4 windows to clear this mess. We didn't - they triggered the clauses in their contract's themselves. Not sure if it was based on appearances or what but they were both activated before Rowett arrived. I only ever remember Rowett saying he would like to keep Baird, nothing about Bent so because his contract has been automatically renewed it doesn't mean we wont look to get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gypsy Ram said: Why did we trigger contract extensions for Bent and Baird? There is a lot of dead wood in this team. Will probably require 3-4 windows to clear this mess. In fairness Bent we didn't have a say about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BathRam72 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 2 hours ago, DCFC1388 said: Cant see anyone paying 4m for Watkins, if that was the case you would assume we could get a similar price for Russell + Weimann. Sako now has 1 year left on his deal and Palace previously quoted 4m But even at your prices that would be over £7m profit You only make a profit if you sell the player for more than you bought him for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brady1993 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 13 minutes ago, RamsPolls said: I'm not going to bother replying to people who don't respect others opinions. Just because some of you think Keogh is the best CB in the league, it doesn't mean others have to agree with you. It's like arguing with a brick wall. I respect other opinions but people never seem to respect mine. I think you getting confused between respecting an opinion and respecting somebody having a right to that opinion. For me you should always be respectful to the person, let them explain why they hold that opinion and then calmly explain why you disagree. However you don't have to respect the opinion itself because some opinions are frankly ludicrous (not saying yours are here mind). Personally I haven't seen anyone be disrespectful (well my comment was a little flippant admittedly, and i apologise if you felt i was being dismissive) towards you in this thread, you have the chance to defend your stance and people have explained why they disagree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCFC1388 Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, BathRam72 said: You only make a profit if you sell the player for more than you bought him for. We both know I meant profit in terms of outlay vs income on the transfer fee's. I didn't say profit on individual players but based on my list of outgoings i'd say we would make a profit on a few - Keogh, Christie, Russell, Bryson, Pearce + Bent. We could possibly get our money back for Camara + Weimann so only 2 we would lose money on would have been Butterfield + Blackman. Although rumours were that we initially paid 1.5m for Blackman with the rest add ons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Out - Bent - free blackman - £500,000 - £1.5 million DEFINITELY to leave camara - £500,000 DEFINITELY to leave Christie - if not signing another contract £2 million wieman - £2-3 million if Rowett isn't going to use him Hughes - loan to premiership club if Rowett isn't going to use him currently Roos - free Hanson - £200,000 - £400,000 because he won't get proper game time Pearce or shackell for whatever we get but not both. Olsson - £500,000 IN'S Davies - very good signing wisdom - yes I would take him at £2 million Jota - we need a performing and good central attacking midfielder (the one big signing) thats it unless we lose Ince Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jourdan Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 In Ruben Loftus Cheek (Chelsea, loan) Ollie Watkins (Exeter, £2 million plus add ons) Cameron McGeehan (Luton, £750,000 plus add ons) A wildcard – a foreign midfielder on loan to spice up our lives, e.g. Kristoffer Olsson or Lucas Piazon. Out Shackell, Olsson, Bryson, Butterfield, Anya, Camara Rowett has a big rebuild on his hands, and not an easy one at that. It is certainly not one I'd expect him to accomplish in one transfer window. After all, there is already this grave sense that the club has a number of players who are surplus to requirements and will prove difficult to shift. We can't give them away, but clearly we are not in a position of strength. I honestly foresee a lot of outgoings being loan moves with a view to a permanent transfer. Any major sales will result in the loss of Keogh, Hughes or Ince. I think largely we should make the best out of what we have. We have the nucleus of a team that can and should compete for the play-off places at the very least. We have players who have points to prove - Weimann and Blackman - and we have players returning to the fold who will feel like new signings - Martin, Thorne and Forsyth. I would just like to see an injection of youth and dynamism into the side. Watkins and McGeehan are hot prospects who have performed consistently well at League Two level and seem destined for a higher level. Can they make the step up? Who really knows! But it would be exciting to find out. As for Loftus Cheek, he is one of the biggest prospects at Chelsea but really needs first team football. You might say we'll be in a long queue behind Premier League clubs and other top Championship clubs. But I think that Premier League clubs see us as a good option for their young talent (think back to Keane, Wisdom, Bamford, Butland, Ibe, Wilson as examples) and Loftus Cheek would tick a lot of boxes for our midfield with his athleticism, presence and technique. With Olsson and Piazon, I think we just lack a flair player, a wildcard who can turn a game upside down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Out: Christie Olsson Shackell Bryson Russell Blackman Camara Bent In: Wisdom Irvine Ibe/Ojo(loan) Watkins Possibly another left back depending on how Forsyth is in pre season That would trim the squad down nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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