Sexydadbod Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 14 minutes ago, rynny said: I will do back to my original question, what talent has he shown whilst he has been here. Forget Russell, I just want to know what he has shown since he has been here, other than running fast down the wing? He's shown he can be effective at stretching the game when playing on the right hand side. Preston away was the prime example. However, he was never going to displace Ince. The point has to be asked whether it's the players that are the problem or whether we are trying to fit them in to suit our needs rather than allowing them to express themselves. Camara in the past has played at a much higher level than Russell probably ever will. The same applies with the likes of Albentosa, Weimann, Butterfield, Anya, De Sart. Are these guys really as average as some Derby fans believe them to be or were their effectiveness strained by not allowing them to do what they were brought in for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiddingsRam Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I'll have fond memories of everyone in Birmingham weatherspoons at west brom away singing his song , including the Newcastle fans. Unfortunately not good enough as a player , best of luck too him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 minute ago, cheron85 said: Feels a little like you have a Ninos with Russell? Anya is quick but fairly one dimensional Weimann I like but he looks nervous/jittery a,lot of the time, like he's still playing in his first game, and sometimes he overplays the ball because of it - Always amazing how he seems to settle more after a goal and looks like a totally different player Blackman I think needs some time - He hasn't had it for us so far and playing him as a lone striker (Smacca?) was madness Camara - Quick and good when running with the ball, cracking cross on him - Terrible at passing, no positional awareness, doesn't track back when losing the ball, essentially leaves a gaping hole on the pitch when there - Isn't good enough to build a team around - Doesn't have the attributes to play in almost any system which isn't built entirely around him You could direct all of those negatives at Russell also this past season. It's not just Russell I'd move on either, I'd also get rid of the likes of Bryson too, in addition to the likes of Olsson, Camara and Christie. Bryson and Russell could get away with murder and Derby fans would forgive them in some way. Both need to be moved on, they were useful in the past but now they aren't very good. We have seen this season that we missed Martin but Bryson and Russell are nowhere near as good as Martin. We would replace them relatively easily. P.S I still believe it was a massive mistake letting Dawkins go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuitYourJibbaJivin Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 39 minutes ago, McLovin said: Likewise what has Russell done this season apart from running into Olsson and always taking the safe option and passing backwards? Camara needs to be in a team that is set up around him. I'm not surprised we didn't see the best out of him when we tried to play him as a workaholic on the left hand side. If GR came out before the start of the season (wayup) and said he was going to build a team around Camara I would want him sectioned right there on the spot. There is no limits to some peoples trolling ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 13 minutes ago, McLovin said: The likes of Anya, Weimann, Blackman and Camara get criticised by some of the same people who who refuse to criticise Lord Johnny Russell, is it because he shows pashun and dezire(deliberately misspelt). Everyone says Russell needs a run of games, but isn't that exactly the same for any player? I'd be interested to see whether any of the above players have started more than 3 games in a row for us. Anya - Newcastle & Ipswich Home and Bristol City Away then Blackburn home, Cardiff and Reading away, Leeds and Brentford home. Weimann - started 2 games for us this season, partly down to injury, partly down to being out on loan, and partly down to the team kept on winning. But had 8 games in a row last season. Blackman - had a run of 6 games last season. Started the first 3 games this season, had 8 games on the bench then been injured for most of the time since then. Camara - the most he has started is 2 games in a row, twice. Both times in his second game he has been dire (Leeds away and Bristol City at home) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sexydadbod Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, QuitYourJibbaJivin said: If GR came out before the start of the season (wayup) and said he was going to build a team around Camara I would want him sectioned right there on the spot. There is no limits to some peoples trolling ? Not trolling and not saying we should build the team around him at all. My point was that if Camara is up for sale then there is no reason why Russell shouldn't also be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 minutes ago, McLovin said: You could direct all of those negatives at Russell also this past season. It's not just Russell I'd move on either, I'd also get rid of the likes of Bryson too, in addition to the likes of Olsson, Camara and Christie. Bryson and Russell could get away with murder and Derby fans would forgive them in some way. Both need to be moved on, they were useful in the past but now they aren't very good. We have seen this season that we missed Martin but Bryson and Russell are nowhere near as good as Martin. We would replace them relatively easily. P.S I still believe it was a massive mistake letting Dawkins go. I think Bryson has been our biggest miss this season - Assuming playing a DM with 2 CMs ahead he's an essential for me - No-one else covers the ground he does - The Wolves game (where for me we played better 11 vs 11 than I've seen us all season) was a classic example of that - The energy of Johnson and Bryson covering every blade between the defence and attack was brilliant Don't get me wrong - If we play 4-2-3-1 I wouldn't have him in there - But if we end up sticking with 4-3-3 (or 4-1-2-2-1) I'd have him as one of the first on the team sheet Russell has been our 2nd best winger consistently for the last few seasons - This year has been terrible for everyone - It's a little unfair to single out one player - Especially one who has been improving again under Rowett - And the chances of him being offloaded are fairly slim since Rowett tried to sign him at least twice for Brum - Think he's a fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottingram Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, McLovin said: That's the thing, do you really get anything outta Russell when he's playing poorly because yet to be convinced? For me he's a passenger and ruins the fluidity of our attack. I used to be a fan of his when he took players on but now he just destroys any build up play by always playing it backwards which kills any momentum. The same thing happened all season long. Russell would get the ball and then played it back to Olsson, who would then stumble on the ball and took an extra touch. Olsson would then play it back to Pearce, who would then pass it to Carson who would then kick it long out of play. The whole of our left side are average and if we keep this side in our team we 100% won't be making the play offs. Thankfully though Davies seems to be bought in to replace Pearce on the left hand side, Forsyth is back to replace Olsson and hopefully we will be buying another let winger. And that wasn't me who said Camara had a better season, that was another user. Both are average players who I would get rid of. Genuinely believe the only reason we haven't got rid yet is because he's popular in the dressing room, which shouldn't be underestimated . I think he works hard and wrt your point above, I'd see that as retaining possession rather than driving down blind alleys as Camara does. I also think we saw plenty of signs of recovery from Russell under Rowett. Fair play - apologies. I misread your post about him having more talent as being better last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andicis Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 He's had a handful of good games in a year and a half. Get rid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rynny Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 45 minutes ago, McLovin said: He's shown he can be effective at stretching the game when playing on the right hand side. Preston away was the prime example. However, he was never going to displace Ince. The point has to be asked whether it's the players that are the problem or whether we are trying to fit them in to suit our needs rather than allowing them to express themselves. Camara in the past has played at a much higher level than Russell probably ever will. The same applies with the likes of Albentosa, Weimann, Butterfield, Anya, De Sart. Are these guys really as average as some Derby fans believe them to be or were their effectiveness strained by not allowing them to do what they were brought in for? What is this much higher level? Ligue 1? Is it that much better playing for Rennes, Sochaux and Angers in Ligue 1 than for Dundee United in the SPL and Europa League? He has been a bit part player throughout his career. He has played less games than Hughes has, even though he is 4 years older. Doesn't say something that even though Russell has been poor that Camara hasn't been able to keep him out of the side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Contain Nuts Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: Camara has got more talent than Russell Perhaps in the same way one of those ball juggling 'keep it on your head while you whip off your beanie so that 13 year olds think you're amazing' types has more 'talent' than nearly any League Two player, but can't actually play football for ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hucknall Ram Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 From what I have seen of him I would get rid, I honestly think he struggles to kick a ball. The trouble for him and many other players is that due to the size of the squad it is very hard for them to "have a run off games". Would you drop Nugent/Bent for Blackman to give him a run of games? Would you drop Ince for Ayna/Wiseman/Blackman/Camara to give them a run of games. The left side of attack seems to be a opportunity but Rowett (not sure McClaren as well) seem to opted Vidya on the left wing rather than others when he has dropped Russell. He has missed games through injury and personal reasons so wouldn't be sad to see him go. Just with the Russell and Byson argument, people defend them because they know what they are capable of, they both hit the ground running when they signed. Others like Blackman, Ayna and Camara haven't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyMac5 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, McLovin said: Not trolling and not saying we should build the team around him at all. My point was that if Camara is up for sale then there is no reason why Russell shouldn't also be. Because we'd be left with the players we tried to replace him with and they aren't as good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparkle Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Most of what camara offered was not good enough for the championship end of story, thank you for trying and good bye. meanwhile the people who constantly say Russell is not good enough well I ask you this who is a better wide player in the championship? Because last season it was knochart Ritchie and Ince who were better in my opinion which now leaves Ince who is still at a championship club, Russell is one of the best wide attackers in the league and all those others who have been given a chance at Derby county well they simply haven't been able to even get selected for any period of time and are nowhere as good and we should be very grateful to have him as he would improve every other team in the championship next season end of small rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheron85 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 1 hour ago, rynny said: What is this much higher level? Ligue 1? Is it that much better playing for Rennes, Sochaux and Angers in Ligue 1 than for Dundee United in the SPL and Europa League? He has been a bit part player throughout his career. He has played less games than Hughes has, even though he is 4 years older. Doesn't say something that even though Russell has been poor that Camara hasn't been able to keep him out of the side? He spent most of his career either bottom end of Ligue 1 or in Ligue 2 - And only 'impressed' recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammed79 Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 Sold to whoever can cover his ferry back to Calais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anag Ram Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ram79 said: Sold to whoever can cover his ferry back to Calais He made West Brom's defence look foolish. There's talent in there. He's just a little lightweight for the Championship. We should recoup £0.5m at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddy Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 2 hours ago, McLovin said: Not trolling and not saying we should build the team around him at all. My point was that if Camara is up for sale then there is no reason why Russell shouldn't also be. He is if the right price comes in........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4ev6is Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 If we got near 1.5m we paid him or 2m i take there hands off. I like this lad also i would love see him stay and rip defances apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannable Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 His role at Angers was using his pace to carry the ball 50-60 yards up the pitch on the break. It would seem we're becoming a more counter-attacking team. Ergo, dunno what I'd do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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