What does Rowett's Appointment mean for "The Derby Way"?

[eddie]

2 hours ago, JoetheRam said:

What does Rowett's appointment mean for the "Derby Way" that Mel Morris fantasises about? Is it dead?

Rowett is a pragmatic manager who's sides could never be called "free flowing" or "attractive".

Hypothetically, even if we get a play-off spot next year would that be enough to stop Morris pressing the button? Does Rowett's appointment suggest that Morris has abandoned or altered his vision of a Derby Way? Or did he already do that by appointing 3 managers previously who play entirely different styles and throwing millions around? Does he expect Rowett to change his philosophy and play the way Morris wants?

Lots of questions, answers please.

Your questions are rhetorical along the lines of "Can blue men sing The Whites"?

[ramjit]

I take it your not a happy bunny appointing Rowett then joe.

[Bris Vegas]

47 minutes ago, The Scarlet Pimpernel said:

Can good managers only play one way or are they able to create a system to suit their players?

All managers will have a preference of system. It's impossible to have a squad capable of performing in various systems to the best of their ability unless you have about 60 players on board.

Obviously at the very, very top level it would be easier to adapt between one system and another, but generally the squad of players will prefer one way of players.

Chelsea for instance could go 442, 433 or 4141. But they've gained most of their success with Conte's favoured 3-4-3 and he actually recruited in the summer to play that way. Marcos Alonso (who many ridiculed as he joined Chelsea) as left wing-back, David Luiz as the ball-playing centre-back of the three and N'Golo Kante to be able to play in a midfield two. The likes of Azpilicueta (3rd centre-back) and Victor Moses (right wing-back) are playing in a position in a system they'd never played before, but they're top players and have been able to adapt fairly easily.

Derby don't have the luxury of a quality squad which can just flip from 442 to 433 to 343 on a week-to-week basis. In the Championship it's much harder, and we have to recruit to one system. 

And we don't really need to recruit to any other system. Brighton only play 442. Every now and again they lose games like Forest (3-0) and Huddersfield (3-1), but the key is they don't panic and start talking about plan B's and different systems because they're smart enough to know that losses are inevitable in this league and over the course of the season, Plan A will gain them enough points for autoamtic promotion.

Going back to Alonso's transfer for Chelsea. He is the exact reason why you should recruit to a system. He isn't the best fullback in the Premier League. I bet he doesn't even make your average observer's top 10 Premier League leftbacks. Many questioned why Chelsea went for him. But he was brought in to fit their system, and despite somewhat limited ability, he has absoloutely shone in that role and that's why it's always better to get in a player who fits the system rather than arguably a better player who doesn't. 

[DRBee]

58 minutes ago, RadioactiveWaste said:

The derby way will be just fine under rowett.

It hopefully means a return to bringing in talented players and adding value to them either as signings or from the youth set up.

Effectively, the Derby way was the Nigel Clough way.

The playing style stuff is tactical rather than startegic. Strategic moves have been far more away from where we were than managers and styles.

Basically, the carrot of promotion derailed the derby way strategy.

You're just saying what YOU want it to mean.

 

"The Derby Way " = anything that keeps Mel happy at any one point in time. To take it more seriously than that is to accept Morris's propaganda . He used it to justify Clements sacking - and has used it again to explain MacClaren's departure.

[RadioactiveWaste]

10 minutes ago, DRBee said:

You're just saying what YOU want it to mean.

 

"The Derby Way " = anything that keeps Mel happy at any one point in time. To take it more seriously than that is to accept Morris's propaganda . He used it to justify Clements sacking - and has used it again to explain MacClaren's departure.

It is both what I want it to mean, and the only meaningful way it can be interpreted. That the club has ditched it to spend big doesn't mean the philosophy isn't worthwhile.

I think some of Mel's decisions have gone away from that more than the managers have TBH.

[europia]

Rowett's appointment will make no difference at all if the chairman doesn't take a back seat and give the new guy 3 transfer windows to get the rot out of the woodwork. 

[Nuwtfly]

I for one hope the "Derby Way" goes right in the **cking bin, along with that god awful wall mural and any mention of it ever happening. 

Rowett/Steve Nicholson are spot on. We just need to play a way that wins us games.

[Igor]

3 minutes ago, europia said:

Rowett's appointment will make no difference at all if the chairman doesn't take a back seat and give the new guy 3 transfer windows to get the rot out of the woodwork. 

Wisest post I've seen in a long time.

[cannable]

4 minutes ago, Nuwtfly said:

I for one hope the "Derby Way" goes right in the **cking bin, along with that god awful wall mural and any mention of it ever happening. 

Rowett/Steve Nicholson are spot on. We just need to play a way that wins us games.

The Derby Way was more than just the style of play 

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

57 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

All managers will have a preference of system. It's impossible to have a squad capable of performing in various systems to the best of their ability unless you have about 60 players on board.

Obviously at the very, very top level it would be easier to adapt between one system and another, but generally the squad of players will prefer one way of players.

Chelsea for instance could go 442, 433 or 4141. But they've gained most of their success with Conte's favoured 3-4-3 and he actually recruited in the summer to play that way. Marcos Alonso (who many ridiculed as he joined Chelsea) as left wing-back, David Luiz as the ball-playing centre-back of the three and N'Golo Kante to be able to play in a midfield two. The likes of Azpilicueta (3rd centre-back) and Victor Moses (right wing-back) are playing in a position in a system they'd never played before, but they're top players and have been able to adapt fairly easily.

Derby don't have the luxury of a quality squad which can just flip from 442 to 433 to 343 on a week-to-week basis. In the Championship it's much harder, and we have to recruit to one system. 

And we don't really need to recruit to any other system. Brighton only play 442. Every now and again they lose games like Forest (3-0) and Huddersfield (3-1), but the key is they don't panic and start talking about plan B's and different systems because they're smart enough to know that losses are inevitable in this league and over the course of the season, Plan A will gain them enough points for autoamtic promotion.

Going back to Alonso's transfer for Chelsea. He is the exact reason why you should recruit to a system. He isn't the best fullback in the Premier League. I bet he doesn't even make your average observer's top 10 Premier League leftbacks. Many questioned why Chelsea went for him. But he was brought in to fit their system, and despite somewhat limited ability, he has absoloutely shone in that role and that's why it's always better to get in a player who fits the system rather than arguably a better player who doesn't. 

Nice thorough analysis Bris...........So do you think Mel and GR have had a conversation about the style of play? I would be amazed if they haven't. If they have I wonder who had the final say? 

PS I guess we will find out over the next month.

[jagerbob]

Style of play is irrelevant if your not competitive to some degree in every fascette of the game.

ie whats the point of dominating possession if we dont ever create anything?

Whats the point of having so called ball players and attacking flair if we dont have enough physical players to defend long throws and corners.

GR has eluded twice in interviews ive heard today about getting the balance right, at the moment its wrong no matter what your precious "style of play" is

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, ramjit said:

I take it your not a happy bunny appointing Rowett then joe.

Not at all I think he was the best realistically available.

Given time I think he has all the attributes of a good manager and comes with a decent record of improving teams. I think he's a good bloke who speaks fairly and honestly.

I'm just questioning how smart a decision it is to appoint a manager who plays an ugly style of football (I don't really care if we're winning) when our chairman has previously sacked a manager who was 5th for playing "negative" football and who has a doctrine of "Derby play a certain way and anyone coming in must attempt this".

[JoetheRam]

1 hour ago, eddie said:

Your questions are rhetorical along the lines of "Can blue men sing The Whites"?

I don't think I'm smart enough to understand what you mean by that Eddie.

[eddie]

15 minutes ago, JoetheRam said:

I don't think I'm smart enough to understand what you mean by that Eddie.

It's a play on words going back to the 1960's, when people questioned whether white men were actually qualified to really sing the blues (coming from a more privileged background, did they have a handle on suffering).

The Bonzo Dog Doo Dah Band immortalised it in song.

[The Scarlet Pimpernel]

54 minutes ago, jagerbob said:

Style of play is irrelevant if your not competitive to some degree in every fascette of the game.

ie whats the point of dominating possession if we dont ever create anything?

Whats the point of having so called ball players and attacking flair if we dont have enough physical players to defend long throws and corners.

GR has eluded twice in interviews ive heard today about getting the balance right, at the moment its wrong no matter what your precious "style of play" is

I agree with you. Why the aggression?

[Bris Vegas]

1 hour ago, jagerbob said:

Style of play is irrelevant if your not competitive to some degree in every fascette of the game.

ie whats the point of dominating possession if we dont ever create anything?

Whats the point of having so called ball players and attacking flair if we dont have enough physical players to defend long throws and corners.

GR has eluded twice in interviews ive heard today about getting the balance right, at the moment its wrong no matter what your precious "style of play" is

I think most on here recognise how unbalanced the squad is. That comes as a direct result of numerous different appointments over the past couple of seasons all with different ideas.

It's no secret that the recruitment has been shocking and the crave for Premier League football has resulted in short-term thinking despite Mel's desire for long-term stability.

I have nothing against Rowett. I'm not going to judge him on his spells at Burton or Birmingham. I just hope now that Mel gives him a few transfer windows to mould a squad to one system which aids our current core group consisting of Keogh, Martin, Hughes, Ince, Fozzy, Thorne, Carson, Russell and Bryson.

 

[Angry Ram]

5 minutes ago, Bris Vegas said:

I think most on here recognise how unbalanced the squad is. That comes as a direct result of numerous different appointments over the past couple of seasons all with different ideas.

It's no secret that the recruitment has been shocking and the crave for Premier League football has resulted in short-term thinking despite Mel's desire for long-term stability.

I have nothing against Rowett. I'm not going to judge him on his spells at Burton or Birmingham. I just hope now that Mel gives him a few transfer windows to mould a squad to one system which aids our current core group consisting of Keogh, Martin, Hughes, Ince, Fozzy, Thorne, Carson, Russell and Bryson.

 

Is it unbalanced? You have never said before...

[1967Ram]

Let's hope the Derby Way is the Winning Way, otherwise Rowatt will be On His Way out!

Gary Rowatt's Black and White Army 

[Rab a dab doo]

As anybody actually properly defined exactly what the 'Derby Way' is ?

[cannable]

15 minutes ago, Rab a dab doo said:

As anybody actually properly defined exactly what the 'Derby Way' is ?

The idea was for the club to have a style of play that managers and players were recruited to fit to, along with youth teams playing this way. 

Obviously this would mean that there wouldn't need to be much change every time a manager came in, youth players would blood through easily and targets would remain the same even if we lost our manager.

It became a bit of a laughing stock because of the gimmicky name given to it but it's actually a continental model that the likes of Ajax, Barca and Dortmund use. 

It's structure Swansea and Southampton implemented and it's seen then reach Europe and earn plaudits. They're clubs similar in stature to us so it proves that we could in theory execute it.

So obviously we hired loads of different managers with different views of how the game is played and spent millions on players we didn't need and whom didn't fit!