Ollie Watkins - Signed for Brentford

[G STAR RAM]

2 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

MASSIVE profits on players and comfortable survival in the Championship.

Surely if they are making massive profits these should be used to re-invest in the playing side to go on to the next level, otherwise what is the point in it?

[YouRams]

3 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

MASSIVE profits on players and comfortable survival in the Championship.

Only so long fans will keep buying tickets to watch "comfortable survival" though. Unless they're building a nice nest egg to go for it one season soon.

[cheron85]

1 minute ago, YouRams said:

Only so long fans will keep buying tickets to watch "comfortable survival" though. Unless they're building a nice nest egg to go for it one season soon.

Their capacity is about 12,000 - They don't need to sell that many tickets - I mean they could probably sell 1/4 of those to us when we go there

[Mihangel]

5 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

MASSIVE profits on players and comfortable survival in the Championship.

Are they though? You can pick individual players they have bought and sold at a profit but that doesn't tell the whole picture does it - Looking at their 16/17 business doesn't show much but there is a lot of movement and it's guesswork as to whether they made a profit.

http://www.soccerbase.com/teams/team.sd?team_id=378&teamTabs=transfers

[G STAR RAM]

Just now, cheron85 said:

Their capacity is about 12,000 - They don't need to sell that many tickets - I mean they could probably sell 1/4 of those to us when we go there

In which case they should be using the profits to improve their ground!

[Mr Tibbs]

Have Brentford got the same expectations/ambitions as us though? 

I'd argue finishing in the top half whilst bringing on players who entertain and who are then sold for huge profits is a success. Despite them selling these players they remain competitive and far better than we have at times over the past 3 years, despite the money spent. 

[Kennington Ram]

2 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

In which case they should be using the profits to improve their ground!

Building a nice new stadium in the area at the mo. Bit of a shame, even though it'll be way nicer, as I like their terraces and old feel.

[VulcanRam]

4 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

It was in place for 14/15.

The concept might have been introduced around that time, but Warburton's squad wasn't signed on that basis. It was the introduction that led him to leaving if I remember rightly. I'm not saying it's a bad system, and it's good to see clubs being progressive and trying new things, but I don't think you can call it a huge success on the footballing front since it was introduced. In fact you could argue it's no more or less successful than what went before it. Just different. 

If Derby brought in a new way of signing players and we ended up 9th and 10th two seasons on the bounce, I doubt many would hail it a huge success. I wouldn't, anyway, but maybe I'm in the minority.

[cheron85]

Just now, G STAR RAM said:

In which case they should be using the profits to improve their ground!

Again it goes back to the ambitions of the club - Whilst everyone says they'd like to play in the top flight I suspect there are plenty of clubs who would rather not

Historically Brentford have hovered around the 3rd tier - Maybe pushing the 2nd tier every now and then - So solidifying a place in the 2nd tier is probably a good point for them to be in at the moment - Maybe long term they'd want to progress but I suspect for now they probably don't

[DEL]

6 minutes ago, G STAR RAM said:

In which case they should be using the profits to improve their ground!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/brentford-new-stadium-london-irish-12595673.amp 

 

[VulcanRam]

3 minutes ago, Kennington Ram said:

Building a nice new stadium in the area at the mo. Bit of a shame, even though it'll be way nicer, as I like their terraces and old feel.

whereabouts compared to where they are now?

[DEL]

Next to Kew Bridge station. 

[G STAR RAM]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Again it goes back to the ambitions of the club - Whilst everyone says they'd like to play in the top flight I suspect there are plenty of clubs who would rather not

Historically Brentford have hovered around the 3rd tier - Maybe pushing the 2nd tier every now and then - So solidifying a place in the 2nd tier is probably a good point for them to be in at the moment - Maybe long term they'd want to progress but I suspect for now they probably don't

Fair point, that's why I asked how the poster was measuring their success.

I'm pretty sure NC was using a pretty similar system but it's only so long before expectation levels are raised and organic growth is no longer seen as a success! 

[Thierry Ennui]

36 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Would you consider that a success for Derby County?

Absolutely not, but we're a much bigger club.

Relatively speaking they're much more successful than us in recent seasons.

[cheron85]

2 minutes ago, Penelope Pendrex said:

Absolutely not, but we're a much bigger club.

Relatively speaking they're much more successful than us in recent seasons.

Agreed - On both accounts

But the model which works for achieving one goal isn't the same as achieving another

The classic example being the 'yo-yo clubs' - Played the right style of football to easily get promoted, but not the right style to stay up - If your goal is promotion it's a success - If your goal is long term Premier League survival it's not

If we want to turn over mad profits then the moneyball approach might be right - Since we seem to have the long term ambition of establishing ourselves as a top flight team we probably have to speculate a bit more and take a few more risks 

[Thierry Ennui]

9 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

Agreed - On both accounts

But the model which works for achieving one goal isn't the same as achieving another

The classic example being the 'yo-yo clubs' - Played the right style of football to easily get promoted, but not the right style to stay up - If your goal is promotion it's a success - If your goal is long term Premier League survival it's not

If we want to turn over mad profits then the moneyball approach might be right - Since we seem to have the long term ambition of establishing ourselves as a top flight team we probably have to speculate a bit more and take a few more risks 

I'd agree with all of that.

[Anag Ram]

Any news on Ollie Watkins or is this still The Money Programme?

[archied]

13 minutes ago, Anag Ram said:

Any news on Ollie Watkins or is this still The Money Programme?

Lolly Watkins  thread,,,, keep up ,,

[Ambitious]

Can someone explain what Brentford do differently to other clubs - especially to obtain the 'moneyball' label? 

I thought their method was to use analytics heavily in order to gain a good understanding on a player, most likely one they've watched. I would hope beyond hope we utilise this method also. 

I don't care if you're a bloke in the stand, the junior scout at a club or the chief scout at the biggest club in the world. It's likely that you have a bias, as it's human nature, and it drives your decisions right or wrong. I would say the use of analytics eradicates the risk of this 'bias' come in to play. At least to a certain degree. 

Football has moved on to the stage where, given the right funds, you can vet a potential signing to the hilt. The top clubs, including Derby given their investment into this kind of stuff, will have access to data that some fans can't even conceive. An example of this is the 360 degree camaras at Moor Farm for the youth teams. The bloody YOUTH TEAMS. it effectively allows the coaches to review the game through the eyes of any player on the pitch. If they want to watch the full 90 minutes through the eyes of the left-back, which I imagine wouldn't be the most entertaining thing to do, they can. Before I had a quick tour around the facility, I didn't even think that was possible, plus I would guess it's only one product in a long line of armoury they can call on. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again now and I'll continue to say it until I'm blue in the face. I doubt there is an easier job on this planet than being a football scout. If your job is to watch football at all different levels, in different countries, I can't possibly conceive how you can get it wrong. When you take into account you can now track stuff like distance traveled, dribble accuracy, pass position, pass accuracy and everything else under the sun. It's basically a job for the very fortune who manage to get into the industry. 

I'm actually confident that there is a number of people who post on this forum who have the knowledge, who would have the work ethic and who have the intelligence to save Mel some money. 

[G STAR RAM]

15 minutes ago, Ambitious said:

Can someone explain what Brentford do differently to other clubs - especially to obtain the 'moneyball' label? 

I thought their method was to use analytics heavily in order to gain a good understanding on a player, most likely one they've watched. I would hope beyond hope we utilise this method also. 

I don't care if you're a bloke in the stand, the junior scout at a club or the chief scout at the biggest club in the world. It's likely that you have a bias, as it's human nature, and it drives your decisions right or wrong. I would say the use of analytics eradicates the risk of this 'bias' come in to play. At least to a certain degree. 

Football has moved on to the stage where, given the right funds, you can vet a potential signing to the hilt. The top clubs, including Derby given their investment into this kind of stuff, will have access to data that some fans can't even conceive. An example of this is the 360 degree camaras at Moor Farm for the youth teams. The bloody YOUTH TEAMS. it effectively allows the coaches to review the game through the eyes of any player on the pitch. If they want to watch the full 90 minutes through the eyes of the left-back, which I imagine wouldn't be the most entertaining thing to do, they can. Before I had a quick tour around the facility, I didn't even think that was possible, plus I would guess it's only one product in a long line of armoury they can call on. 

I've said it before, I'll say it again now and I'll continue to say it until I'm blue in the face. I doubt there is an easier job on this planet than being a football scout. If your job is to watch football at all different levels, in different countries, I can't possibly conceive how you can get it wrong. When you take into account you can now track stuff like distance traveled, dribble accuracy, pass position, pass accuracy and everything else under the sun. It's basically a job for the very fortune who manage to get into the industry. 

I'm actually confident that there is a number of people who post on this forum who have the knowledge, who would have the work ethic and who have the intelligence to save Mel some money. 

And unfortunately that probably shows the naivety of many football fans...