Chris Baird 16/17

[Day]

5 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I agree with all of that and as I said in another comment I'm perfectly happy to see him in the team at the moment. 

If the above was in part reference to one of my comments, then the context was not that "it was only Rotherham", but I was responding to a claim he had had an amazing game like he was some kind of 10 year old thrown into the 1st team. He's a seasoned international pro with nearly 80 caps. He should have more than enough in his locker to handle a poor team like Rotherham brought on Saturday. He did what he was expected to do and did it fine. So well done to him, the point I was trying to make was that undue praise after that kind of game, which Derby dominated from the 20th minute onwards, was a tad over the top.

Wasn't you or should I say just you, it's also not the first player v bottom half club this has come up, goals, saves, performances dismissed as it wasn't against a top 6 club which is ridiculous.

It's born from arrogance that we somehow deserve to beat these clubs at a canter because we're Derby County and our rightful place is in the Premier League.

I'm not saying our squad is on par with Rotherham, it's not, on paper we have players miles better but football isn't played on paper, teams at the bottom beat teams at the top so the players need to be up for every game regardless of the opposition and no opposition should be easily dismissed, especially the comeback kings Rotherham.....3-3's anyone?

Baird's performance wasn't anything special, no awards would be handed but it does deserve to be highlighted due to the reaction of some fans when the team news is announced. 

2 weeks running now the drama queens have been out, Bent v Wolves and now Baird v Rotherham, both times proven wrong. 

[VulcanRam]

15 minutes ago, David said:

Wasn't you or should I say just you, it's also not the first player v bottom half club this has come up, goals, saves, performances dismissed as it wasn't against a top 6 club which is ridiculous.

It's born from arrogance that we somehow deserve to beat these clubs at a canter because we're Derby County and our rightful place is in the Premier League.

I'm not saying our squad is on par with Rotherham, it's not, on paper we have players miles better but football isn't played on paper, teams at the bottom beat teams at the top so the players need to be up for every game regardless of the opposition and no opposition should be easily dismissed, especially the comeback kings Rotherham.....3-3's anyone?

Baird's performance wasn't anything special, no awards would be handed but it does deserve to be highlighted due to the reaction of some fans when the team news is announced. 

2 weeks running now the drama queens have been out, Bent v Wolves and now Baird v Rotherham, both times proven wrong. 

I'm not sure, I think that perhaps by highlighting it you run the risk of overblowing it. 

And while you're right about anyone beating anyone in this league, I don't think there's anything wrong in going into a fixture like this and saying we expect to beat them. It's not arrogance, neither is it being dismissive, it's reality looking at the two squads. Doesn't mean we will win, but we should go into the game with the confidence that if we do the right things we should win. 

And in relation to player v bottom half club, I'm afraid in some cases it is relevant. In this situation Baird had a far easier afternoon that he would if he were facing Newcastle, Reading or Brighton (but hopefully not Norwich!) and therefore his performance should be assessed accordingly. Again, that's not being dismissive, it's applying some context.

[Day]

15 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

I'm not sure, I think that perhaps by highlighting it you run the risk of overblowing it. 

And while you're right about anyone beating anyone in this league, I don't think there's anything wrong in going into a fixture like this and saying we expect to beat them. It's not arrogance, neither is it being dismissive, it's reality looking at the two squads. Doesn't mean we will win, but we should go into the game with the confidence that if we do the right things we should win. 

And in relation to player v bottom half club, I'm afraid in some cases it is relevant. In this situation Baird had a far easier afternoon that he would if he were facing Newcastle, Reading or Brighton (but hopefully not Norwich!) and therefore his performance should be assessed accordingly. Again, that's not being dismissive, it's applying some context.

Of course, I went into the game thinking we should beat Rotherham on paper, I have a bet based on the same thoughts each weekend and had Derby to win on Saturday, it's the expecting and toys out the pram when you don't is what I see as being very wrong. "We should be beating teams like......" has come up several times this season already, I remember one really wasn't happy with the 0-0 at Brentford. That's arrogance beyond belief.

The only expectation you should really have is that any game is a potential banana skin in this league as clubs do lose to those below them as football has never been you never lose to clubs below you.

Baird did have an easy afternoon which is why it's even more important for defenders and keepers to remain fully focused and concentrate for 90 minutes, we've seen it before v Rotherham, I'll say it again the 3-3's, we switched off, became complacent. Saturday we didn't.

A players performance should be assessed on that alone, not the opposition they faced. Half of Wayne Rooney's England's goals have been taken away from him by some due to the inferior opposition which is just ridiculous as is this.

3 points were on offer, Baird did his job well, we didn't concede and won. Credit where credits due and I personally feel it's great to highlight that due to all the **** he gets. Had he slipped and let Rotherham through on goal there would be a thread on here absolutely slating him, nothing wrong in a pat on the back.

 

[VulcanRam]

9 minutes ago, David said:

Of course, I went into the game thinking we should beat Rotherham on paper, I have a bet based on the same thoughts each weekend and had Derby to win on Saturday, it's the expecting and toys out the pram when you don't is what I see as being very wrong. "We should be beating teams like......" has come up several times this season already, I remember one really wasn't happy with the 0-0 at Brentford. That's arrogance beyond belief.

The only expectation you should really have is that any game is a potential banana skin in this league as clubs do lose to those below them as football has never been you never lose to clubs below you.

Baird did have an easy afternoon which is why it's even more important for defenders and keepers to remain fully focused and concentrate for 90 minutes, we've seen it before v Rotherham, I'll say it again the 3-3's, we switched off, became complacent. Saturday we didn't.

A players performance should be assessed on that alone, not the opposition they faced. Half of Wayne Rooney's England's goals have been taken away from him by some due to the inferior opposition which is just ridiculous as is this.

3 points were on offer, Baird did his job well, we didn't concede and won. Credit where credits due and I personally feel it's great to highlight that due to all the **** he gets. Had he slipped and let Rotherham through on goal there would be a thread on here absolutely slating him, nothing wrong in a pat on the back.

 

All good, my final point if I may. I don't think you can separate the two. If I pick these two hypothetical scenarios:

Derby win 5-0, it's an easy game, the right back has little to do and strolls through it all relatively easily.

Derby lose 1-0 in a tough, competitive game, the right back has a really busy afternoon and is involved heavily throughout.

It would be easy to assume he must have played better in the first game because it's a clean sheet and Derby won comfortably, but it may well be that his better game in the latter because he was busier and facing better opposition. So I think when assessing a player's performance, you always have to put it into the context of what game it was and the opposition he was facing.

[Day]

31 minutes ago, VulcanRam said:

All good, my final point if I may. I don't think you can separate the two. If I pick these two hypothetical scenarios:

Derby win 5-0, it's an easy game, the right back has little to do and strolls through it all relatively easily.

Derby lose 1-0 in a tough, competitive game, the right back has a really busy afternoon and is involved heavily throughout.

It would be easy to assume he must have played better in the first game because it's a clean sheet and Derby won comfortably, but it may well be that his better game in the latter because he was busier and facing better opposition. So I think when assessing a player's performance, you always have to put it into the context of what game it was and the opposition he was facing.

You couldn't assume anything based on just the scoreline, win 5-0 and still have an absolute stinker, giving the ball away, making rash tackles. Baird didn't. Think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but I'll leave this here.

Here we have the player ratings, Baird with a 8.0, made Championship team of the week. 

82.4% Pass Success
34 Passes
1 Key Pass
2 Crosses
2 Arial battles won
4 Tackles
2 Interceptions
5 Clearances
2 Blocked Shots
1 Shot
0 Dispossessed

Compare that to Max Lowe who is getting praise for his performance on Saturday with no objections

77.6% Pass Success
49 Passes
0 Key Passes
3 Crosses
1 Arial battle won
1 Tackle
0 Interception
3 Clearances
0 Blocked Shots
1 Dispossessed

Now I'm not knocking Lowe here at all, the praise he's been getting is fully deserved and yes you have to take into account age but Baird is at the other end of the age scale and had an equally good game, given how much abuse he gets fully deserves to be highlighted, had he not been I doubt this topic would be here so in some respects it's sad to see. 

Wish fans would wait until 5pm to be critical of players performances, not 2pm when they haven't even pulled their shirt on yet. Saw it with Bent against Wolves and now Baird. 

Repeating myself here so I'll tell myself to bore off.

[Day]

One more I promise promise, Saturday's heat maps, Baird offers nothing past the half way line. Was just as high up on the pitch as Lowe. That's it, I mean it  

[Phoenix]

8 minutes ago, David said:

One more I promise promise, Saturday's heat maps, Baird offers nothing past the half way line. Was just as high up on the pitch as Lowe. That's it, I mean it  

I bet B4 still thinks he's dog ****.

[Mostyn6]

pretty sure one of the blocked shots came out to Baird on the edge of the area, and he fizzed one wide, deflected, for a corner. 

[Ninos]

I appreciate those who are bugging him up because he's a Derby player, but heat maps and such don't tell the story. Yes on Saturday, Baird was prob more consistent over the course of the game than Lowe. The max faded in the second half but the difference is that one player can set the game alight and one cannot. No one has said Baird had a bad game, or even an ok game. He had a good game true. But he ain't a good player, and he does not fit our playing style - Lowe offers huge upside as a wing back and has already produced moments of magic. It's the magic that separates the wheat from the chaff. Mcclarens point post game was that Baird was selected as a horse for the course: let's see what he decides on doing for Saturday but it wouldn't surprise to see Hanson start at RB.

[VulcanRam]

41 minutes ago, David said:

One more I promise promise, Saturday's heat maps, Baird offers nothing past the half way line. Was just as high up on the pitch as Lowe. That's it, I mean it  

Stats, stats, stats...don't take any like this at face value I'm afraid, to me numbers like that are fairly meaningless without showing how they related to the match (eg the quality of a cross, or the fact its easier to win an aerial battle against someone 5ft 4in than 6ft 2in, a better pass rate but what if all the passes were two yards, is that better than a worse % rate but more effective/forward passing etc etc) but we're both boring now so yes, let's call it quits. 

Of more importance, how did Baird get from one half of the pitch to the other? Jump back and forth?  

[Ninos]

Reposted oops

[Day]

Should never rely fully on stats but it would be foolish to completely ignore them, in this case they backup the conspiracy theory that Baird had a good game teleporting from one half to the other

[DEL]

18 hours ago, RamNut said:

Bristol stool index?

Huh?

[PodgeyRam]

Not sure if some of that was directed at me @David but in case you get the wrong impression I do actually like Baird even though it probably didn't come across that way when I did the podcast! He's an honest pro and my first choice with Christie injured because I like round pegs in round holes and he's the roundest one we have at the moment. 

Part of the reason I was so frustrated at the Brighton match is because he was a square peg playing in a round hole at left back. Round pegs, round holes. Not difficult *cough* Pearson *cough*

 

[Day]

13 minutes ago, PodgeyRam said:

Not sure if some of that was directed at me @David but in case you get the wrong impression I do actually like Baird even though it probably didn't come across that way when I did the podcast! He's an honest pro and my first choice with Christie injured because I like round pegs in round holes and he's the roundest one we have at the moment. 

Part of the reason I was so frustrated at the Brighton match is because he was a square peg playing in a round hole at left back. Round pegs, round holes. Not difficult *cough* Pearson *cough*

 

Wasn't picking anyone out personally, a lot have been down on Baird on this forum and all over social media, just having mini rants.....and all this is coming from someone that wanted Anya to play RB

[TopRam]

Baird is a good solid player, I remember when his name got read out against Brighton people booed, I thought he was excellent kept knockart in his pocket

[Van der MoodHoover]

10 hours ago, rynny said:

That is just daft, quite clearly Roberto Carlos played left back and Baird was right back, it was more akin to Cafu really 

With bairds pace more like Maicon - who always ran as though he was pulling a caravan 

[Rampage]

What is Maclaren on? He is turning supposedly carp players into highly motivated players giving their best for the team. Biggest turn round in football that I have seen in many a year. Well done Steve.

[Day]

Not against a top 6 side tho so doesn't count right?.....

[G STAR RAM]

My MOTM today.