Joey Barton

[Day]

2mins 25secs, 2mins 50secs

I'll stop now as I'll be here all day. For me a tackle is taking the ball away from another's feet, something Will Hughes can do whilst retaining possession regardless of scoreline, hardness and pressure. They may not leave players rolling around needing the physio to come on with the magic sponge but to suggest Hughes can't tackle is completely wrong.

Some of the passing in these videos is top drawer. 

[Daz_The_Ram]

I have rarely read such nonsense. 

The context of a game doesn't matter eh? That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever read based on football.

Well deduced. Slow clap. Every game is the same. Yeah, good one.

From now on, this forum shall about numbers and isolated, hand picked video clips, and about how Hughes is Keane, Pirlo, and Inieista all rolled into one.

I'm off to go and look at an excel spreadsheet. They seem more relevant than the actual game of football.

If you can't see that someone of character, and of vast top level experience would benefit our squad in its currently brittle mental state, there is literally nothing I can do for you. 

Why don't we bottle it for the fourth season running. Nothing is wrong.
 

 

[cheron85]

1 hour ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Lets see what happens when the going gets really tough out there. I've seen all of our current crop shrink and disappear, in situations that Barton thrives in.

See I massively disagree with this about Barton... He has throughout his career thrown toys out of the pram when the going got tough for him... Newcastle when he wasn't getting picked first, QPR when they were struggling (literally demanded a loan away) and now Rangers... He was great for Burnley last year by all accounts... In a team riding high and doing well...

1 hour ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

and I'm sorry to have to tell you that I'm not one of these that kisses Hughes' feet whether he plays well or poorly. He is the chosen one for most of you, I am not 100% convinced.

Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion on players I think this one shows a certain lack of football nous... Multiple premier league managers, England bosses, pundits and players have said the Hughes is quality... And those are people not associated with the club...

I personally think he needs to sort out his end product... More goals and assists... But the way he dictates the game, the way he finds space where no-one else can and his ability to read the play around him is incredible for a guy his age... He plays like a guy who's got 10 years experience... 

[Day]

21 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

I have rarely read such nonsense. 

The context of a game doesn't matter eh? That is the most ludicrous thing I have ever read based on football.

Well deduced. Slow clap. Every game is the same. Yeah, good one.

From now on, this forum shall about numbers and isolated, hand picked video clips, and about how Hughes is Keane, Pirlo, and Inieista all rolled into one.

I'm off to go and look at an excel spreadsheet. They seem more relevant than the actual game of football.

If you can't see that someone of character, and of vast top level experience would benefit our squad in its currently brittle mental state, there is literally nothing I can do for you. 

Why don't we bottle it for the fourth season running. Nothing is wrong.
 

 

You made a statement that Will Hughes can't tackle. He can. I've shown you in both stats and videos which you have dismissed as rubbish.

Technology does not allow yet for us to compare what we have seen with our own eyes online. As I said earlier we can just sit here and make wild inaccurate statements and shout you don't pay attention to the games but I prefer to offer some kind of evidence for my argument.

You have sinced moved the goalposts to when do these tackles occur, what impact do they have on the game, score line etc. In terms of your earlier statement this is completely irrelevant, you said Will Hughes can't tackle, again he can.

Can timed tackles have an impact on the game, of course. 109 of Joey Barton's tackles may have played a bigger part in the result than Will Hughes 102, not denying that but it does not mean that Will Hughes can't tackle. He can.

Finally, you dismiss highlight reels of Hughes tackles, fine, can I ask how many live games you have seen recently of Joey Barton's toughness and great tackling to suggest he would be a great addition to the squad? MOTD doesn't count as they are just highlights. 

[Animal is a Ram]

We've just got rid of one 'character' in Pearson. So many people said he'd be the kick up the a*se that some of the 'sulky' players - Ince obviously - and look what happened.

We're coming out of the other side of that, and you want to do the same thing again?

Yes, some of our players might be a bit 'precious'. But good management (anywhere, not just football) is about identifying what people react best to. If Ince reacts best to someone putting an arm around him, then so be it. There's plenty of evidence that Mac knows how to work these players.

Everywhere Barton goes, (save for Burnley, what magic must the Ginger Mourinho have?) he gets in trouble. But let's ignore that, because the rest of our players are 'bottlers'. Everyone must be out to get poor Joseph Barton.

[Daz_The_Ram]

4 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

See I massively disagree with this about Barton... He has throughout his career thrown toys out of the pram when the going got tough for him... Newcastle when he wasn't getting picked first, QPR when they were struggling (literally demanded a loan away) and now Rangers... He was great for Burnley last year by all accounts... In a team riding high and doing well...

Whilst everyone is entitled to their opinion on players I think this one shows a certain lack of football nous... Multiple premier league managers, England bosses, pundits and players have said the Hughes is quality... And those are people not associated with the club...

I personally think he needs to sort out his end product... More goals and assists... But the way he dictates the game, the way he finds space where no-one else can and his ability to read the play around him is incredible for a guy his age... He plays like a guy who's got 10 years experience... 

Having trained and played at lower league and non league levels as a youngster, albeit some twenty years ago, I lack nothing in nous at all. Shoot me down and question me, roll your eyes all you like for saying that, but it is well known on this forum. I just look at football in a different way to those of you staring at a TV screen all day.

By the way, tell me one of these top clubs and managers that have actually tabled a firm, concrete, actual bid that have desperately tried to fend off. Plenty have sniffed, none have bitten. Explain that.

Hughes is a fair weather genius. There is a lot of work to be done. At present, there is nothing to my mind, that Hughes can do, that Butterfield cannot. In fact, Butterfield has more of a goal threat to his game.

[Daz_The_Ram]

7 minutes ago, David said:

You made a statement that Will Hughes can't tackle. He can. I've shown you in both stats and videos which you have dismissed as rubbish.

Technology does not allow yet for us to compare what we have seen with our own eyes online. As I said earlier we can just sit here and make wild inaccurate statements and shout you don't pay attention to the games but I prefer to offer some kind of evidence for my argument.

You have sinced moved the goalposts to when do these tackles occur, what impact do they have on the game, score line etc. In terms of your earlier statement this is completely irrelevant, you said Will Hughes can't tackle, again he can.

Can timed tackles have an impact on the game, of course. 109 of Joey Barton's tackles may have played a bigger part in the result than Will Hughes 102, not denying that but it does not mean that Will Hughes can't tackle. He can.

Finally, you dismiss highlight reels of Hughes tackles, fine, can I ask how many live games you have seen recently of Joey Barton's toughness and great tackling to suggest he would be a great addition to the squad? MOTD doesn't count as they are just highlights. 

Please do not dismiss me as an armchair fan. I am the furthest thing from it. Real football, that involves actual grass, dressing rooms, the lacing up of boots, , has been my life for three decades.

I just look at the game in a far different way to those who do so through the lens of Opta, Championship Manager, and Sky Sports. I find this constant number crunching and dispassionate quoting of statistics very tiresome and irritating. Football is very different to that.

You contradict yourself quite regularly, however I am too busy this morning to be bothered to go into it.
 

In closing. Football is not played online my friend, it is an organic, changing animal, with moving parts, and a life of its own.

[Cam the Ram]

3 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Please do not dismiss me as an armchair fan. I am the furthest thing from it. Real football, that involves actual grass, dressing rooms, the lacing up of boots, , has been my life for three decades.

I just look at the game in a far different way to those who do so through the lens of Opta, Championship Manager, and Sky Sports. I find this constant number crunching and dispassionate quoting of statistics very tiresome and irritating. Football is very different to that.

You contradict yourself quite regularly, however I am too busy this morning to be bothered to go into it.
 

In closing. Football is not played online my friend, it is an organic, changing animal, with moving parts, and a life of its own.

[Daz_The_Ram]

20 minutes ago, Animal is a Ram said:

We've just got rid of one 'character' in Pearson. So many people said he'd be the kick up the a*se that some of the 'sulky' players - Ince obviously - and look what happened.

We're coming out of the other side of that, and you want to do the same thing again?

Yes, some of our players might be a bit 'precious'. But good management (anywhere, not just football) is about identifying what people react best to. If Ince reacts best to someone putting an arm around him, then so be it. There's plenty of evidence that Mac knows how to work these players.

Everywhere Barton goes, (save for Burnley, what magic must the Ginger Mourinho have?) he gets in trouble. But let's ignore that, because the rest of our players are 'bottlers'. Everyone must be out to get poor Joseph Barton.

There are points here that I agree with indeed ... Barton is a polarising figure. I think I know how he feels. ;-/

We'll leave it at that.

[rynny]

6 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Football is not played online my friend, it is an organic, changing animal, with moving parts, and a life of its own

And judging Barton on this season, it has moved away and evolved from him being able to actually compete, or he has just got old and cannot replicate his previous form and his legs have gone. Maybe if he didn't spend all summer in contract talks with different clubs and actually got himself on the training pitch and got a decent pre-season under his belt he may not have looked so far off the pace I could keep up with him.

He has struggled in the SPL, why would he not struggle here in a more competitive league?

[Animal is a Ram]

1 minute ago, rynny said:

And judging Barton on this season, it has moved away and evolved from him being able to actually compete, or he has just got old and cannot replicate his previous form and his legs have gone. Maybe if he didn't spend all summer in contract talks with different clubs and actually got himself on the training pitch and got a decent pre-season under his belt he may not have looked so far off the pace I could keep up with him.

He has struggled in the SPL, why would he not struggle here in a more competitive league?

What do you mean struggled? Best player in Scotland wasn't he? 

[Seth's left foot]

Didn't Barton get sent off at Man City for QPR when they were struggling to stay up in the final games? Don't recall if it was the Aguerooooo title winning game?

Anyway, the point being that some Keogh bashers on here would happily have him sign for us.

 

[Day]

38 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Please do not dismiss me as an armchair fan. I am the furthest thing from it. Real football, that involves actual grass, dressing rooms, the lacing up of boots, , has been my life for three decades.

I just look at the game in a far different way to those who do so through the lens of Opta, Championship Manager, and Sky Sports. I find this constant number crunching and dispassionate quoting of statistics very tiresome and irritating. Football is very different to that.

You contradict yourself quite regularly, however I am too busy this morning to be bothered to go into it.
 

In closing. Football is not played online my friend, it is an organic, changing animal, with moving parts, and a life of its own.

I've never suggested for a second you're a armchair fan, in fact it's you that has been dismissing others posts as seen through TV screens, calling them prats when you're actually talking to other season ticket holders.

I would throw up a picture of ticket stubs, match day programmes and season ticket if we're having a who's got the biggest cock competition but you don't like any kind of evidence and would probably say I bought them on eBay or something. 

You might have a bigger one, you may have seen more games than I've eaten hot dinners but I've seen enough football and Will Hughes play with my own eyes sat and stood in a football ground to say you are completely wrong, Will Hughes can tackle.

Talking of contradictions, Joey Barton has played 2 seasons in the Championship, that's a possible 4 games v us plus the Play off final that you could have possibly seen him play not through a TV screen yourself unless you've been going to Burnley, QPR games etc. 

I'll also agree to a closing on that we'll agree to disagree. 

[cheron85]

13 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Having trained and played at lower league and non league levels as a youngster, albeit some twenty years ago, I lack nothing in nous at all. Shoot me down and question me, roll your eyes all you like for saying that, but it is well known on this forum. I just look at football in a different way to those of you staring at a TV screen all day.

I'm afraid I'm not in the school of thought which pervades British football that believes ex-Footballers hold the most knowledge on how to run a football club or judge a players ability... The most successful managers in world football of recent years haven't always been the greatest footballers, they've been the smartest people around in the game... The best chefs don't make the best restaurant critics, the best artists don't make the best art critics and (for me) the best footballers don't necessarily make the best judges of ability in others... I think it's the same culture which 'Moneyball' dismissed in Baseball...

I always appreciate a different viewpoint though and it's interesting to get your take on it... Just assuming here but I'm guessing you were very pro-Pearson? I may be wrong but I get the impression you value hard work and perseverance from players first and foremost?

24 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Hughes is a fair weather genius. There is a lot of work to be done. At present, there is nothing to my mind, that Hughes can do, that Butterfield cannot. In fact, Butterfield has more of a goal threat to his game.

Fitness for me is Butterfield's weakness... I feel like his game significantly tails off around 60 mins and not sure if that's a fitness issue vs everyone else or whether maybe he's just covering more ground then others in that first 60 mins? Dunno...

[Daz_The_Ram]

8 minutes ago, rynny said:

And judging Barton on this season, it has moved away and evolved from him being able to actually compete, or he has just got old and cannot replicate his previous form and his legs have gone. Maybe if he didn't spend all summer in contract talks with different clubs and actually got himself on the training pitch and got a decent pre-season under his belt he may not have looked so far off the pace I could keep up with him.

He has struggled in the SPL, why would he not struggle here in a more competitive league?

He was nowhere near match fit mate, what you say is valid regarding the summer, I agree. Rangers was a debacle. I maintain that a fully fit and firing Joey Barton is an asset at this level.

[Daz_The_Ram]

3 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

I'm afraid I'm not in the school of thought which pervades British football that believes ex-Footballers hold the most knowledge on how to run a football club or judge a players ability... The most successful managers in world football of recent years haven't always been the greatest footballers, they've been the smartest people around in the game... The best chefs don't make the best restaurant critics, the best artists don't make the best art critics and (for me) the best footballers don't necessarily make the best judges of ability in others... I think it's the same culture which 'Moneyball' dismissed in Baseball...

I always appreciate a different viewpoint though and it's interesting to get your take on it... Just assuming here but I'm guessing you were very pro-Pearson? I may be wrong but I get the impression you value hard work and perseverance from players first and foremost?

Fitness for me is Butterfield's weakness... I feel like his game significantly tails off around 60 mins and not sure if that's a fitness issue vs everyone else or whether maybe he's just covering more ground then others in that first 60 mins? Dunno...

Yes sadly I am the ex player that it seems fashionable to hate these days! ;-) 

Good question regarding Pearson. I was very pro to begin with, and you're right, I value hard work and strong voices out there...I'd hoped he'd be given longer and was angry at the players' responses to him. It said a lot to me and magnified their collective lack of character.
 

I do however also appreciate that without flair and class, you get nowhere in this game. I appreciate a balance. At the minute, for me, there is none. As fans, I feel the majority of you want them to be mollycoddled. In the long run, it won't work.

[cheron85]

2 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Yes sadly I am the ex player that it seems fashionable to hate these days! ;-) 

Hate is a strong word... It's more that I don't think having played is automatically a certificate to expertise... I'd use Alan Shearer on MOTD as an example... I haven't EVER heard him say anything interesting or insightful when doing punditry... However the flip side being I find the insights from G-Nev fascinating and I like Danny Murphy as he often has insight about things I hadn't noticed...

6 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

Good question regarding Pearson. I was very pro to begin with, and you're right, I value hard work and strong voices out there...I'd hoped he'd be given longer and was angry at the players' responses to him. It said a lot to me and magnified their collective lack of character.

I do however also appreciate that without flair and class, you get nowhere in this game. I appreciate a balance. At the minute, for me, there is none. As fans, I feel the majority of you want them to be mollycoddled. In the long run, it won't work.

Ahhhh see you mistake me on that one... I'm in the camp of thinking it's absolutely appalling how professional footballers are treated like spoiled children... They're grown ups who get paid to do a job and they should act like that...

The flip side of that is I think Pearson had an absolute shocker of an attitude... In the modern work environment in most places you can't be a dictator any more... You have to work collaboratively... Yes leadership is important but I get the impression he was a "my way or nothing" kinda guy where Smacca seems to work with the players to get the best for the team? The many articles about Leicester at the start of last season I feel show a lot about Pearson... All the players talking about being more relaxed, more collaborative, working alongside Ranieri were warning signs about Pearson for me...

[rynny]

32 minutes ago, Daz_The_Ram said:

He was nowhere near match fit mate, what you say is valid regarding the summer, I agree. Rangers was a debacle. I maintain that a fully fit and firing Joey Barton is an asset at this level.

But can he now get to that level? He is 34 and spent the last 6 minths blowing out his arse and struggling in Scotland. Time to for him to retire now.

[Boycie]

I'm an ex player now retired too. My peak was against Mill Hill U13's when I actually trapped the ball before passing it somewhere.

Id of loved Barton here, but it's not to be.

Btw, Hughes is the best tackling non defender we have at the club. Fact!

[Day]

38 minutes ago, cheron85 said:

It's more that I don't think having played is automatically a certificate to expertise... I'd use Alan Shearer on MOTD as an example... I haven't EVER heard him say anything interesting or insightful when doing punditry... However the flip side being I find the insights from G-Nev fascinating and I like Danny Murphy as he often has insight about things I hadn't noticed...

Just wanted to jump in on this as I couldn't agree more. See it far too often not just on this forum, social media and even down the pub, fans using past experience or years of watching football to justify their opinion. You can be an ex England international with 500 caps, sat on a Mexican beach watching through a black and white tv with a coat hanger as an aerial or a Eddie that saw Steve Bloomers debut, doesn't make a difference and that's the beauty of football, even these expert pundits on TV don't agree with each other all the time, how do you think they watch the games in the BBC studios?

Also nothing grates on me more than the your opinion doesn't count as you watch on TV, what absolute rubbish. I'm a season ticket holder, South lower, I have a good view of the game, love going, the atmosphere, completely different experience than watching on TV......but the flag goes up for offside down the North end there is no way on earth will I know if that was the right call or not, did Hughes get a touch on the ball or just the player, impossible to see and this would apply to many that are sat level, below me and other ends of the ground. West and East, level with the halfway line is the best you will get, why they come at a premium.

Go for a piss, turn to a mate to ask what the bloke said behind and you've missed a foul, you've missed a turn, a pass, did the ball cross the line you have the beauty of the Sky camera angles, rewind, pause, replays to fall back on. You don't have that camera angle looking down replaying the movement of Bent as you sat there fully focused on Hughes making the pass. 

Truth is there is pros and cons for watching football on TV or in the ground but neither give one opinion more weight than another.  

Usually the ones that shout the loudest but did you go to the game bro that have the strongest opinions on a player that they could only have possibly seen a handful of times live themselves without a TV.

Football can be enjoyed in many formats, not one is perfect or looked down upon.

5pm ranting and raving how **** we've played after an away game that wasn't on TV is a different matter as you are forming an opinion on what 2 blokes with their own opinions are seeing. How often have you sat with a mate and disagreed with what you're seeing?

Sorry Cheron, not all aimed at you, just struck a chord close to my heart that had already been twanged by Daz earlier.